Lithium Batteries installation

[magnetman]

It could have been 2011. I have 5 yar lapses in concentration and as he (@gibbo) spent more time messing around with lead acid batteries than most people do thinking it is unlikely he knows anything about lithium. 

 

Well anyway. Referring to batteries. No Clopixol. 

 

LTO batteries are quite interesting. 

 

 

[Guest]

 

@BoatinglifeupNorth

 

PS it's 'you're' or  'you are' not 'your'.

Edited February 15 by MJG

[magnetman]

PS it is 'PS' not 'pS'.

Post Script. Arguably it should be Ps. 

[Guest]

Just now, magnetman said:

PS it is 'PS' not 'pS'.

 

Corrected.

[magnetman]

Jt would never be pS. 

 

Not in a millenium. 

1 minute ago, MJG said:

 

Corrected.

It is Great to hear this. 

 

 

[TheBiscuits]

8 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Tagging won't work. 

 

you have to say that you heard he died. 

 

I heard that he died. 

 

Ita probably a bit late for this as he died ages ago ! I think it was around 2016. 

 

That's a shock to those of us discussing stuff with him just before Christmas last year!

 

 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Jt would never be pS. 

 

Not in a millenium. 

It is Great to hear this. 

 

 

 

I aim to please.

 

Ps it's 'great' not 'Great', great shouldn't have been capitalised mid sentence.

[magnetman]

Great should always be capitalised.

 

It is like 'Good' and 'Boat'.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Great should always be capitalised.

 

It is like 'Good' and 'Boat'.

 

I refer you to your avatar.

[MtB]

2 hours ago, magnetman said:

I'm a Trump voter. 

 

 

 

 

I'd vote National Trust, if only they'd put up some candidates...

 

 

 

[IanD]

10 hours ago, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

And what is your experience with fitting out a boat with Lithium? Please let us know your vast knowledge on Lithium  batteries, yes @IanD might go on a bit, but you have no experience with the technology being discussed and @IanD does. Your a total argumentative joke. 

Not exactly a surprise though, he's trotted out exactly the same arguments multiple times in the past on various subjects, usually laced with plenty of abuse and character assassination of his opponent in the debate.

 

The common theme is that he provokes arguments seemingly for the sake of it and based on little or no knowledge, and then blames the other side for carrying on replying using their knowledge ("experts", who needs them...) to show that he's wrong, often ending up with "let it go" type posts to try and shut them up and close down the debate -- and he's not the only culprit, but he is one of the worst.

 

It's why I refuse to engage with him any more, like some other posters who have had similar experiences, because this kind of behaviour just poisons any discussions.

 

Hmm, I wonder if I can predict what he'll say in reply, even without reading it? Probably more denigration of "experts" who dare to argue with him, along with more personal abuse... 😞

[nicknorman]

10 hours ago, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

And what is your experience with fitting out a boat with Lithium? Please let us know your vast knowledge on Lithium  batteries, yes @IanD might go on a bit, but you have no experience with the technology being discussed and @IanD does. Your a total argumentative joke. 

 On the other hand it also has to be said that IanD has no experience with fitting out a boat with lithiums. He paid someone else a lot of money to do it for him. Although I can see why you might think otherwise.

[magnetman]

10 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

That's a shock to those of us discussing stuff with him just before Christmas last year!

 

 

If you refer back to that incident you will probably find that he reappeared on here in response to me suggesting he had died

 

 

[peterboat]

5 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

 On the other hand it also has to be said that IanD has no experience with fitting out a boat with lithiums. He paid someone else a lot of money to do it for him. Although I can see why you might think otherwise.

I fitted out my boat years ago, still using the KISS principles and they are still working fine, ok I have no alternator but I do have a wind turbine. I have bought another boat so as yet I have not decided what I am doing, but it most certainly will involve Lithium batteries for domestic and possibly drive if I go the electric route. For me its always been quality chargers that can't go over voltage and that's worked for years

[magnetman]

 

 

The main problem is alternators. In reality that is the only issue facing anyone. If you don't use an altenator to charge then drop in replacement means just that and the solar or mains chargers can be installed to suit the batteries. 

 

Add an alternator, which is what a lot of people have as their primary charging device and all hell breaks loose. 

 

 

[Guest]

45 minutes ago, IanD said:

Not exactly a surprise though, he's trotted out exactly the same arguments multiple times in the past on various subjects, usually laced with plenty of abuse and character assassination of his opponent in the debate.

 

The common theme is that he provokes arguments seemingly for the sake of it and based on little or no knowledge, and then blames the other side for carrying on replying using their knowledge ("experts", who needs them...) to show that he's wrong, often ending up with "let it go" type posts to try and shut them up and close down the debate -- and he's not the only culprit, but he is one of the worst.

 

It's why I refuse to engage with him any more, like some other posters who have had similar experiences, because this kind of behaviour just poisons any discussions.

 

Hmm, I wonder if I can predict what he'll say in reply, even without reading it? Probably more denigration of "experts" who dare to argue with him, along with more personal abuse... 😞

 

Your problem Ian is that you  think you are somehow perfect and don't do any of the above when in fact you do. You are the biggest hypocrite on the forum. As an example have you already forgotten you referred to Nick as Nasty Nick earlier in this  very thread? Not that I think for a second that it bothered him.

 

So let's not get all 'holier than thou' eh?

 

And if you think having the support of PD1964 AKA Boatinglifeupnorth, (someone who scours family members Facebook pages to download images) is worth anything then I'm afraid that says a huge amount about you.

Edited February 16 by MJG

[nicknorman]

12 minutes ago, magnetman said:

 

The main problem is alternators. In reality that is the only issue facing anyone. If you don't use an altenator to charge then drop in replacement means just that and the solar or mains chargers can be installed to suit the batteries. 

 

Add an alternator, which is what a lot of people have as their primary charging device and all hell breaks loose. 

 

True. However most boaters charge their batteries via an alternator at some point. And for many, it provides most or all of the charge.

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

11 hours ago, MJG said:

 

Oh look it's Mr. stalky.

 

Have you downloaded anybody else's daughters facebook images lately?

 

 

Let’s get the facts. This is what happened:

 You put a article on here for everyone to see, naming your daughter & husband. I did a quick search through Facebook and put a picture if you on here, not exactly stalking is it?  You do more stalking of members in here that you want to argue with.

 Why would anyone want to stalk your daughter, not exactly famous or a looker is she and that’s being polite.

 

Edited February 16 by BoatinglifeupNorth

[Guest]

51 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

 On the other hand it also has to be said that IanD has no experience with fitting out a boat with lithiums. He paid someone else a lot of money to do it for him. Although I can see why you might think otherwise.

 

The only person I know on here that has actually done it themselves is @peterboat. There may be others but I suspect they keep their heads down for fear of being told 'they've done it wrong' somehow.

 

 

11 minutes ago, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

Let’s get the facts. This is what happened:

 You put a article on here for everyone to see, naming your daughter & husband. I did a quick search through Facebook and put a picture if you on here, not exactly stalking is it?  You do more stalking of members in here that you want to argue with.

 Why would anyone want to stalk your daughter, not exactly famous or a looker is she and that’s being polite.

 

 

Oh and there we have a prime example of what a nasty little man you are.

 

Screen shot before you change it.

 

I'm guessing @IanD must be proud to have support of someone like you. Personally I'd be embarrassed.

 

Btw you forgot the bit about using images you down loaded as your avatar. Sad little man.

Edited February 16 by MJG

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

1 hour ago, nicknorman said:

 On the other hand it also has to be said that IanD has no experience with fitting out a boat with lithiums. He paid someone else a lot of money to do it for him. Although I can see why you might think otherwise.

I know exactly what IanD has as I seen it being built from shell, like all the other electric boats by the builder, at least he has a boat with Lithium power and all electric, so may have some useful tips on running them, unlike @MJG who’s main contribution to any posts is snide comments to goad for arguments.

20 minutes ago, MJG said:

 

Oh and there we have a prime example of what a nasty little man you are.

 

Screen shot before you change it.

 

I'm guessing @IanD must be proud to have support of someone like you. Personally I'd be embarrassed.

 

Btw you forgot the bit about using images you down loaded as your avatar. Sad little man.

 Not exactly stalking is it though.

 You are the sad little man of the forum, as you only contribute on here to goad posters for arguments, as others have also said, that’s sad.

Edited February 16 by BoatinglifeupNorth

[Gibbo]

11 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

I'm tagging @Gibbo as a referee on this thread.

 

If only for entertainment value ...

 

Quantum mechanics now?

 

I'm not getting involved. It's utter nonsense.

[Alway Swilby]

56 minutes ago, magnetman said:

 

 

The main problem is alternators. In reality that is the only issue facing anyone. If you don't use an altenator to charge then drop in replacement means just that and the solar or mains chargers can be installed to suit the batteries. 

 

Add an alternator, which is what a lot of people have as their primary charging device and all hell breaks loose. 

 

 

Or just put a lead acid battery in parallel with the lithium(s) and if necessary a bit longer cable from said alternator and all is hunky dory. 😊

[nicknorman]

8 minutes ago, Alway Swilby said:

Or just put a lead acid battery in parallel with the lithium(s) and if necessary a bit longer cable from said alternator and all is hunky dory. 😊

Groundhog day.

[Up-Side-Down]

11 minutes ago, Alway Swilby said:

Or just put a lead acid battery in parallel with the lithium(s) and if necessary a bit longer cable from said alternator and all is hunky dory. 😊

A strategy that, one day, will lead to a very interesting conversation with a BSS examiner!

[IanD]

1 hour ago, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

I know exactly what IanD has as I seen it being built from shell, like all the other electric boats by the builder, at least he has a boat with Lithium power so may have some useful tips on running them, unlike @MJG who’s main contribution to any posts is snide comments to goad for arguments.

 Not exactly stalking is it though.

 You are the sad little man of the forum, as you only contribute on here to goad posters for arguments, as others have also said, that’s sad.

 

I also spent a *lot* of time investigating the technology -- not just the batteries and charging/control but the systems wrapped round them -- before I went to Finesse (thanks to @peterboat for the suggestion) because I was initially considering specifying everything myself -- probably not assembling it because that's the job of a boatbuilder, but designing the installation without any corner-cutting, pointless on a new boat which costs a fortune anyway. I even dug down into things like the detail of motor control algorithms because I expected I'd have to do this myself if I chose anything "non-standard" for the builder -- and could certainly have done this (I've done similar things in the past at work), though it would have taken a lot of time and effort and trials.

 

When I talked to Ricky I found that he'd made almost exactly the same choices that I had done, especially crucial things like motor/controller/batteries, and had built multiple boats this way -- at which point I decided there was no point reinventing the wheel, and it was better to make use of *his* existing expertise which had come to the same conclusions that I had. We still made quite a few changes to the boat, but always with discussion between us about how practical/sensible they were and what the possible downsides were as well as the plus points, and some ideas were rejected and some made it into the final build -- which is how engineering works.

 

We also had lots of discussions about the best way to treat the batteries, knowing how LFP cells behave (and how much a 35kWh battery bank costs) -- and yes Ricky is a bit of a techno-nerd too, he enjoys digging into things like this (and the motor control stuff) -- and we agreed that there's a lot of misunderstanding about this, especially on Internet forums, as can be seen every time the subject comes up. Many of the things people seem most concerned about -- like restricting SoC range -- simply don't matter in any real sense, with a good BMS battery life is pretty much only dependent on total energy throughput, and anyway is likely to exceed the lifetime of the boat on the canals.

 

So long as you don't overcharge them or overdischarge them (a good BMS and charging control!), what you do between 0% SoC and 100% SoC makes very little difference, they're just an energy bucket you can fill and empty as circumstances demand -- and that's the real advantage over LA. And that's not just my opinion, there's lots of data out there which shows this, not just from expert long-term LFP users like Rod Collins (marinehowto) but also remote monitoring of every LFP installation Finesse has ever done -- all of which show pretty much zero battery capacity/health degradation over the years. Which is exactly what would be expected... 😉

 

41 minutes ago, Up-Side-Down said:

A strategy that, one day, will lead to a very interesting conversation with a BSS examiner!

Or possibly premature death for either LA, LFP or both -- depending on how the setup is built and used, especially by naive users who don't understand batteries... 😉

Edited February 16 by IanD