Which engine would you choose?

[seegull]

Hi,

I'm currently looking at dutch steel boats - 10 to 15m. Engines somewhere between 75 and 175HP

There are a range of engines that they come with, but I'm not sure what are the better ones and what are the NOT so good....

I realise it doesn't just come down to brand, but is a Ford diesel as good as a Perkins etc.

Most seem to be fitted with DAF engines, which I'm told are reconditioned truck engines.

The Volvo Penta engines seem to be sold as a plus point.

A for Cummins, VM Detriot, Sole and Yanmar....I've no idea.

Peugout engines, like the cars I will probably avoid.

 

Any advise on what to value and what to avoid is appreciated!

 

Thanks

Edited November 5, 2023 by seegull

[Jen-in-Wellies]

11 minutes ago, seegull said:

Hi,

I'm currently looking at dutch steel boats - 10 to 15m. Engines somewhere between 75 and 175HP

There are a range of engine options, but I'm not sure what are the better ones and not so...

I realise it doesn't just come down to brand, but is a ford diesel as good as a Perkins etc.

Most seem to be fitted with DAF engines, which I'm told are reconditioned truck engines.

The Volvo Penta engines seem to be sold as a plus point.

A for Cummins, VM Detriot, Sole and Yanmar....I've no idea.

Peugout engines, like the cars I will probably avoid.

 

Any advise is appreciated!

 

Thanks

Welcome to the forum.

DAF were once a Dutch company, so not surprising you'll see these engines used in their boats. Similar to the common sight of British Leyland diesel engines being used in older British boats. Easy availability of engines and spare parts, plus the knowledge amongst local mechanics of their quirks and foibles.

Other than that, I've no idea.

[Alan de Enfield]

21 minutes ago, seegull said:

I'm currently looking at dutch steel boats - 10 to 15m. Engines somewhere between 75 and 175HP

 

 

I have twin Ford engines, 6 litre, 6 cylinder and downrated to about 110hp each, they are the engines used in the Ford Cargo trucks. Spares cheap and readily available.

 

Downside - they do seem a bit noisier than the Twin 6 cylinder 6 litre Volvo Penta engines I had in a previous boat - But the Fords are a fraction of the price of the Volvos and Volvo parts are very expensive - I wanted some steering oil, the Volvo brand was £30 for a litre, I got the EXACT same specification on ebay for under £20 FOR 5 LITRES.

Volvo = expensive if anything goes wrong - I had Turbos blow on both engines.

 

Are you looking to have a boat built or buying a secondhand one ?

If buying secondhand I'd suggest that you get the engine the boat is fitted with.

[seegull]

Hi,

Thanks for reply.

 

I'm just looking at boats, so they come with the engine they have.

 

My question is how much should I value (or devalue) the boat due to the engine it has....?

"Should I avoid a boat which has XXXX engine? or really be happy that the boat we like has a XXXX engine."

 

Any to avoid in your opinion?

[seegull]

35 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Welcome to the forum.

DAF were once a Dutch company, so not surprising you'll see these engines used in their boats. Similar to the common sight of British Leyland diesel engines being used in older British boats. Easy availability of engines and spare parts, plus the knowledge amongst local mechanics of their quirks and foibles.

Other than that, I've no idea.

Thanks for your reply.

Ye that's my thoughts. 

Are Leyland engines still well serviced and spares available in UK? Wonder what it's like on continent...?

[Jen-in-Wellies]

43 minutes ago, seegull said:

Thanks for your reply.

Ye that's my thoughts. 

Are Leyland engines still well serviced and spares available in UK? Wonder what it's like on continent...?

For most of the boats owned by forum members, the engine powers and boat sizes are smaller than the ones you're interested in. You may have more luck talking to the Dutch Barge Association. The Leyland engines most commonly used in UK canal boats were the 1500 and 1800 B series diesels, for which there is still reasonable and cheap parts availability.

[Onewheeler]

Older Daf engines are reliable and spares fairly readily available. They may well smoke a lot. We have been asked if there is a new pope when we have started ours. It's also noisy and drinks a lot of diesel (Daf 175, 1959 vintage).

[booke23]

Cummins and Detroit I imagine are good....they make engines for buses and trucks. Yanmar are likely fantastic, as they are Japanese and used in lots of industrial applications. 

 

VM are an Italian maker of diesel engines used by Fiat and Chrysler in their cars. I had a Chrysler once with a 2.8l VM diesel and it was ok. 

 

A 6 cylinder Gardner would be great if you come across one, as long as it hasn't done galactic hours since it was last overhauled. 

[Bacchus]

4 hours ago, seegull said:

Hi,

I'm currently looking at dutch steel boats - 10 to 15m. Engines somewhere between 75 and 175HP

There are a range of engines that they come with, but I'm not sure what are the better ones and what are the NOT so good....

I realise it doesn't just come down to brand, but is a Ford diesel as good as a Perkins etc.

Most seem to be fitted with DAF engines, which I'm told are reconditioned truck engines.

The Volvo Penta engines seem to be sold as a plus point.

A for Cummins, VM Detriot, Sole and Yanmar....I've no idea.

Peugout engines, like the cars I will probably avoid.

 

Any advise on what to value and what to avoid is appreciated!

 

Thanks

 

What are you going to use the boat for? Pumping around in fast tidal streams would suit a different engine from footling around on inland waterways in the summer.

 

 

3 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

I have twin Ford engines, 6 litre, 6 cylinder and downrated to about 110hp each, they are the engines used in the Ford Cargo trucks. Spares cheap and readily available.

 

Downside - they do seem a bit noisier than the Twin 6 cylinder 6 litre Volvo Penta engines I had in a previous boat - But the Fords are a fraction of the price of the Volvos and Volvo parts are very expensive - I wanted some steering oil, the Volvo brand was £30 for a litre, I got the EXACT same specification on ebay for under £20 FOR 5 LITRES.

Volvo = expensive if anything goes wrong - I had Turbos blow on both engines.

 

Are you looking to have a boat built or buying a secondhand one ?

If buying secondhand I'd suggest that you get the engine the boat is fitted with.

 

twin Lehmans? Terrific engine (especially if they've had the injector sump conversion...)

[john.k]

I replaced the Gardner in my boat with a Detroit 4-71.......gardners spares are simply insane prices .....yes ,I know they are museum pieces ,but I dont want to pay Antiques Roadshow prices ..........A lot of the professional fishermen have Detroits ,but generally the 92 series two strokes ,which have top level fuel efficiency.

[cuthound]

16 hours ago, booke23 said:

Cummins and Detroit I imagine are good....they make engines for buses and trucks. Yanmar are likely fantastic, as they are Japanese and used in lots of industrial applications. 

 

VM are an Italian maker of diesel engines used by Fiat and Chrysler in their cars. I had a Chrysler once with a 2.8l VM diesel and it was ok. 

 

A 6 cylinder Gardner would be great if you come across one, as long as it hasn't done galactic hours since it was last overhauled. 

 

When I was project managing the installation of standby generators for a living Cummins were my preferred supplier for the larger (750kVA sets and above), although the engines I installed were too big for all but the largests boats.

 

I witnessed an installation with a Detroit engine once, but decided against using it. They were 16 cylinder V16's and sounded lovely, but I was worried about pollution as the site I was looking to put them in was in Central London.

[mrsmelly]

If well maintained all those will suffice. Remember engines in such boats are seldom if ever stretched. Oil and filter changes where applicable are key. John Deere are good, one of the trip boats I skippered had twin Fords with over 30k hours on each engine without even ever having the heads off. The other had twin John deere, we also had a volvo genset and a perkins genset with mahoosive hours on each that ran without fault.

We serviced and kept meticulous record on each unit.

[magnetman]

I was told by a very knowledgeable gentleman with extensive experience of UK and continental inland waterways that Ford diesel engines are a good choice. He has a Lot of money but rather than have something flash he put a Ford 4D in his barge. The reason, which seemed a good one was that you can be almost anywhere and there will be someone who knows how to work on it and get parts easily if there are problems. 

 

Got a feeling he might have been right. 

 

But yes most diesel engines if looked after properly will be fine and probably not need much doing in thousands of hours of use. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dav and Pen]

As already said Dafs are the go to for Dutch boats a few years ago, they do smoke but generally keep going. I had a GM 4 cylinder 2 stroke in the barge we brought in Belgium about 110 hp but did it smoke, cyclists went past holding their noses. Plenty of spares in Belgium and Holland but probably not UK if you intend to bring a boat over even the filters were unobtainable in France. Changed it for a Perkins 130c 6 cylinder non turbo and you will see these in Dutch cruisers good engine usually mated to a prm gearbox plenty of knowledge and spares for both. If the boat is in nice tidy and well cared for the engine will be as well the Dutch love their boats.

 

[seegull]

21 hours ago, Bacchus said:

 

What are you going to use the boat for? Pumping around in fast tidal streams would suit a different engine from footling around on inland waterways in the summer.

 

 

 

twin Lehmans? Terrific engine (especially if they've had the injector sump conversion...)

Intention is Inland waterways - including rivers - Rhone/Rhine upstream possibly, with perhaps some inshore coastal around Netherlands if we fell brave later on.

[peterboat]

JohnV formerly of this forum has a Hyundai engine and gearbox in Sabina H, she is a 67 x 16 ex petro tanker it works well and was way cheaper than the other options, plus it's a proper marine engine not a converted lorry engine

[Dav and Pen]

Most of the Dafs on boats are properly Marinised  engines not as suggested reconditioned truck engines. The Perkins Sabre engines are also purely marine ones. The Op has obviously seen a boat with a Peugeot engine and nothing wrong with this if he is planning to boat in France as it could be fixed anywhere .

[peterboat]

Peugeot engines are fairly small and low powered not ideal for crossing the channel in a heavy boat

[MtB]

A Samofa 2S-108 is probably the next vintage lump to go in one of mine.

 

 

[seegull]

5 hours ago, MtB said:

A Samofa 2S-108 is probably the next vintage lump to go in one of mine.

 

 

Interesting. I saw one advert with a Samofa...never hear of them. Are parts readily available?

[MtB]

1 hour ago, seegull said:

Interesting. I saw one advert with a Samofa...never hear of them. Are parts readily available?

 

No. Just as with most other vintage engines by manufacturers long gone! 

 

Samofas however, share quite a few parts with Gardners or so I understand, and in Holland they share the same sort of exalted status that Gardners are afforded over here. 

 

 

 

 

 

[magnetman]

If intending to do any heavy work I would seriously consider being careful with power unit choice and make sure you get a Really Good One. 

 

Out of interest the Hyundai engine mentioned above by @peterboat installed in @johnv's boat is I believe Daewoo engine.

 

I've seen it. 

 

I think Daewoo marine division are part of Hyundai. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[peterboat]

16 minutes ago, magnetman said:

If intending to do any heavy work I would seriously consider being careful with power unit choice and make sure you get a Really Good One. 

 

Out of interest the Hyundai engine mentioned above by @peterboat installed in @johnv's boat is I believe Daewoo engine.

 

I've seen it. 

 

I think Daewoo marine division are part of Hyundai. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's a Daewoo but was owned by Hyundai,  they are now Doosan, same motor and Watermotor are the importer and maranising agents. 

The motor itself is of course a MAN copy

[Bacchus]

17 hours ago, seegull said:

Intention is Inland waterways - including rivers - Rhone/Rhine upstream possibly, with perhaps some inshore coastal around Netherlands if we fell brave later on.

 

I would probably be looking for at least a hundred horses for that sort of use. I had the Ford that @Alan de Enfield mentioned above in my last Dutch steel cruiser (a 36' De Groot) which was very well balanced for that sort of usage. I have just bought a Linssen with a 100 horse Volvo (TMD31) which is a very sweet unit. I cruise mainly tidal and non-tidal Thames, but am planning on going a bit further in the Linssen.

 

Engine make isn't the be-all and end-all choice, most well maintained diesels will give fairly good service, but some seem to be better reputed than others. Personally I would try to avoid early mercruisers or Mercedes, but you can still get excellent examples of either.

 

If you find something you are interested in, I am fairly certain that there will be someone on this forum who can give you specific advice, but I would say look for the boat you like first. "10 to 15m" covers a VERY wide range of boats, from pocket cruisers like my Linssen to sizeable little ships.

 

[seegull]

6 hours ago, Bacchus said:

 

I would probably be looking for at least a hundred horses for that sort of use. I had the Ford that @Alan de Enfield mentioned above in my last Dutch steel cruiser (a 36' De Groot) which was very well balanced for that sort of usage. I have just bought a Linssen with a 100 horse Volvo (TMD31) which is a very sweet unit. I cruise mainly tidal and non-tidal Thames, but am planning on going a bit further in the Linssen.

 

Engine make isn't the be-all and end-all choice, most well maintained diesels will give fairly good service, but some seem to be better reputed than others. Personally I would try to avoid early mercruisers or Mercedes, but you can still get excellent examples of either.

 

If you find something you are interested in, I am fairly certain that there will be someone on this forum who can give you specific advice, but I would say look for the boat you like first. "10 to 15m" covers a VERY wide range of boats, from pocket cruisers like my Linssen to sizeable little ships.

 

Interesting to hear, thanks for your reply.

First question, are there any forums/sites for Dutch Steel owners?

 

The boats I've seen, of interest, so far are 10.5 - 13.5m. I like the cutters but we are mainly concerned with the price v condition and what we can do with it, so still looking at fairly broad range of options. 

One of the boats I'm interested in has a DAF 575 engine. 

 

But are DAFs a good motor to end up with? 

Edited November 7, 2023 by seegull