Buying a Narrowboat

[ditchcrawler]

4 hours ago, Bettyblue said:

 

Any views on ex hire NBs ?

Straight from a reputable hire company like Black Price, then great. If someone else has owned it then IMO its no better or worse than any other second hand boat

2 hours ago, Tacet said:

Not really.  Most houses now comprise registered land and the title is therefore guaranteed by the government.

Not quite that safe, but you may be able to get some compensation from them 

 

[system 4-50]

6 hours ago, Bettyblue said:

But I will make sure I view lots of boats when I get back to the UK in March .

I am curious as to how long the forum would consider likely for a complete novice to acquire a NB safely (in a financial sense) once in the UK.  I would guess at 3 - 6 months for getting familiar with the subject, seeing lots of boats, and arriving at a decision???

[Tony Brooks]

48 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

I am curious as to how long the forum would consider likely for a complete novice to acquire a NB safely (in a financial sense) once in the UK.  I would guess at 3 - 6 months for getting familiar with the subject, seeing lots of boats, and arriving at a decision???

 

Only if being sensible, judging by some posts, in many cases only a few days.

[Bettyblue]

I don’t have 3 - 6 months unfortunately, I will have a few weeks at most as I am only staying in temporary lodgings .

I will try to look online before I arrive and plan what boats I am going to look at .

Taking on board all the advice that you lovely people have given me and hopefully continue to impart to me 😀

[Tony1]

22 minutes ago, Bettyblue said:

I don’t have 3 - 6 months unfortunately, I will have a few weeks at most as I am only staying in temporary lodgings .

I will try to look online before I arrive and plan what boats I am going to look at .

Taking on board all the advice that you lovely people have given me and hopefully continue to impart to me 😀

 

Not wishing to sound patronising with this at all, but even with my limited experience, I think the approach of setting a 2 or 3 week deadline on your purchase is one that could backfire in a big way. 

The cost of rushing a purchase and possibly getting the wrong boat, or a bad boat, could end up being much higher than say, paying for accommodation somewhere cheap, and thus having more time to look carefully at each boat.

I've heard of some people who waited 2 or 3 years for their perfect boat to come up for sale, and for me that would have been far too long.

It will help that you will be looking at boats in advance of getting back to the UK, and maybe you can negotiate and arrange viewings in advance. But think about what you might have to do in those 3 weeks: physically travel to them and view the shortlist of boats, negotiate on the shortlist of preferred options, agree a price (subject to survey), get the survey(s) done, then maybe negotiate a reduction based on what the survey finds, and then make a final decision...?

And if the survey reveals something that looks very bad, and the offer price cant be reduced to account for fixing it, then you've got no boat and you're back to the shortlist to make an offer on your second choice boat (plus looking at other boats that have come on sale since your first sweep), and maybe get another survey done on your second choice boat- and so it could go on...

 

 

 

Edited October 27, 2023 by Tony1

[Alan de Enfield]

23 minutes ago, Bettyblue said:

I don’t have 3 - 6 months unfortunately, I will have a few weeks at most as I am only staying in temporary lodgings .

I will try to look online before I arrive and plan what boats I am going to look at .

Taking on board all the advice that you lovely people have given me and hopefully continue to impart to me 😀

 

Once you have found you 'must have boat' and have made an offer subject to survey, it could be 2 -3 or 4 weeks before the surveyor is able to view the boat. Then the negotiation starts.

 

The only way to buy a boat quickly is highly risky for a newbie - many 'old hands' with experience will take cash, view the boat, hand over the cash and they 'drive it away' within an hour..

 

Whilst you 'faff about waiting for a surveyor' a cash buyer sees the boat, makes an offer for 'cash and no survey' and its sold, you are back to square one.

 

A good boat will not wait for you, you need to be proactive and go and see it (wherever it is in the country) the day it appears with the broker - many boats never even appear on the brokers website, they will be 'sold' to someone on the waiting list. Get yourself and your boat requirements logged with every broker you can find and get them to call you as soon as they are instructed to act for the seller.

[system 4-50]

3 hours ago, Bettyblue said:

I will have a few weeks at most

Not a chance.  A recipe for a disaster.  Sorry but I can't find a softer way of putting it.

[Stroudwater1]

4 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Once you have found you 'must have boat' and have made an offer subject to survey, it could be 2 -3 or 4 weeks before the surveyor is able to view the boat. Then the negotiation starts.

 

The only way to buy a boat quickly is highly risky for a newbie - many 'old hands' with experience will take cash, view the boat, hand over the cash and they 'drive it away' within an hour..

 

Whilst you 'faff about waiting for a surveyor' a cash buyer sees the boat, makes an offer for 'cash and no survey' and its sold, you are back to square one.

 

A good boat will not wait for you, you need to be proactive and go and see it (wherever it is in the country) the day it appears with the broker - many boats never even appear on the brokers website, they will be 'sold' to someone on the waiting list. Get yourself and your boat requirements logged with every broker you can find and get them to call you as soon as they are instructed to act for the seller.

 

The OPs idea is very unlikely to happen with such speed but with around 15 boats on Rugby boats sale list currently the market appears to be less like that than it was. 

 

However aiming to buy an ex Hire boat in that timescale seems risky, as I believe they come up at seasonal times rather than constantly through the year. This really could go badly wrong as the broker/ private seller will sense the urgency that the OP has, for sure. 

 

 

 

 

[ditchcrawler]

11 minutes ago, Stroudwater1 said:

 However aiming to buy an ex Hire boat in that timescale seems risky, as I believe they come up at seasonal times rather than constantly through the year. This really could go badly wrong as the broker/ private seller will sense the urgency that the OP has, for sure. 

 

 

 

 

The likes of Black Prince sell their boats several months before they take them out of service. They even offer try before you buy.

[Bettyblue]

Fair enough I didn’t come on here to be soft soaped, I would rather have it straight so I know what I am dealing with from the off.

Appreciate the honesty

Thankyou to everyone that has advised a newbie like me.

I really appreciate honest feedback, best not to sugarcoat it.

it won’t put me off though!

I am determined to do this, but I will go about it very carefully taking “ on board “ ( pardon the pun!) all your valuable comments. I will co to ur to post as things progress … watch this space 😀

[MtB]

2 hours ago, Bettyblue said:

I really appreciate honest feedback, best not to sugarcoat it.

 

There is however, a tendency on here for people to be overly negative. While I agree there is every chance of you buying a lemon there is also every chance of you buying a cracking good boat too. Both can happen accidentally. A huge list of reasons not to buy it could be compiled on here for pretty much every boat ever sold and your first boat will a bit of a gamble regardless if only because you have no experience of what you'll end up wanting in a boat after five years of living aboard. My advice is buy the first boat that 'speaks' to you, feels 'right' for you, has a nice welcoming atmosphere about it and you find enjoy being aboard. Most boats you view will leave you cold but one, either sooner or later, will bewitch you and MAKE you buy it! Thats the one for you. Don't resist.

 

Then, once you've bought it, set about dealing with the problems (if there are any). 

 

 

[Bod]

6 months before travel, you will be looking on "Apollo Duck" and most of the uk brokers websites at least weekly to get a feel for prices and speed of sale.  (Bearing in mind the uk season of the year, slow sales in winter, quick sales in spring/summer.)

6 weeks before, this will become daily.

6 days before travel, contact will be made with the owners/brokers of interesting boats, to check the exact availability.

-2 days after traveling, appointments will be made to view interesting available boats.  This will be at short notice, think hours, waiting days, the boat will be sold elswhere.

Try to keep your interesting boats in the same area, ie Midlands, and base yourself in that same area.  You will need the 2 days to settle in and arrange transport, don't rely on public transport, theres not much of it!

Also bear in mind uk money laundering rules, there may be difficulties in transfering and spending large quantities of money into the uk.

 

Bod.

[Tony Brooks]

I am not sure boat "speak" to you. I made a list of my must-haves, my nice to haves and my no way would I haves. I then started looking at adverts to locate boats with as man of those attributes as possible. That threw up a fairly short list and the first one we looked at I bought.

 

If the OP is interested, my must-haves were six berths including a fixed double, central heating, a cruiser stern, a dump through pump out toilet (simplicity), a raised dinette, and an Aquadrive shaft coupling. My nice to have was a proper marine engine (Bukh), although that might not have been such a bright choice, although it never gave any trouble, and a PRM hydraulic gearbox. My no ways were an electric toilet, a Hurth gearbox, and (25 years ago) a diesel central heating boiler known to be less reliable). I got it all bar the PRM hydraulic box and was very happy with the boat. I also set a budget.

 

I ignored a large "hire boat" dent in the bow above the top rubbing band, which I subsequently filled with epoxy filler. However, this was all from the aspect of having the knowledge about the details, the OP probably does not have enough knowledge.

 

This is a very personal list and it will differ considerably from person to person.

Edited October 28, 2023 by Tony Brooks

[Crewcut]

1 hour ago, MtB said:

 

There is however, a tendency on here for people to be overly negative. While I agree there is every chance of you buying a lemon there is also every chance of you buying a cracking good boat too. Both can happen accidentally. A huge list of reasons not to buy it could be compiled on here for pretty much every boat ever sold and your first boat will a bit of a gamble regardless if only because you have no experience of what you'll end up wanting in a boat after five years of living aboard. My advice is buy the first boat that 'speaks' to you, feels 'right' for you, has a nice welcoming atmosphere about it and you find enjoy being aboard. Most boats you view will leave you cold but one, either sooner or later, will bewitch you and MAKE you buy it! Thats the one for you. Don't resist.

 

Then, once you've bought it, set about dealing with the problems (if there are any). 

 

 

 

Not going to argue with that, they always look better in the photos & two minutes has been long enough to rule out most boats I've ever been to see, which is a lot. Once on the way to Cornwall to view two boats, there was another one in Exeter that I only went to see because it was on the way, a few hours later I'd done the deal, phoned the brokers in Cornwall to cancel the other viewings & was on my way back. I'm now on boat #7, all but one bought privately, none surveyed. One of them was not a great choice, but big caveat I'm not talking about steel boats - an older steel boat I'd really want to see in (to test the engine) and out of the water (to get a proper look at the hull) & depending on how much I was spending might even employ a reputable surveyor. I'm probably significantly less risk averse than most if for no other reason than I now have a reasonable level of knowledge/experience.

 

To OP - But you are new to this, a rough idea of your budget might help, I mean if you go & buy a six figure sum 65-70ft boat (i.e. the sort of boat that is unlikely to be snapped up as soon as it comes on the market) from a reputable broker you'll likely be absolutely fine, but even best case scenario like this is going to take longer than a few weeks, you really have to be realistic about that. This recent thread This recent thread  is a good example of when things don't go so well. Bear in mind that official residential berths aren't readily available & if you can find one remember you'll have to pay council tax, so you'll have that plus licence fees (which are going up significantly over the next few years); berthing fees; insurance; maintenance; etc. so do your sums & know what you're getting into financially. Places where you might be able to live aboard unofficially you'll have no security of tenure, may not be able to use their address & have mail/parcels delivered there (meaning you could well need a land address) & they may suddenly decide for some reason that they no longer want people living on, what then? This has happened in quite a few sea marinas, I'm not so au fait with canal marinas. If you can do some/most of the maintenance yourself (service engine, e.g.) that's a good cost saving. You can learn to do this if you're a bit practical and happy to learn & none of it is rocket science.

 

Most people I think have been boating with friends or hired holiday boats before buying their own, if you haven't, what makes you think narrowboat life will suit you and your daughter? Finally I'm not trying to put you off, rather making sure that you go into this with your eyes open and be as well prepared as you can be because the more of a budget you're on and the smaller the timeframe the more risky it is. Good luck & keep us posted...🙂

[dan01eb]

It's my first time buying a NB. I found that after I'd viewed around 6 to 8 boats I could compare them against each other. After viewing approx 15 boats I ended up going back to one of the previously viewed boats and liked it more than I did on the first viewing. To get an idea if you can get to a marina/broker with a few boats and view 2 or 3 at a time it's obviously easier and quicker than 2 or 3 separate viewings at different locations.

[Crewcut]

40 minutes ago, dan01eb said:

It's my first time buying a NB. I found that after I'd viewed around 6 to 8 boats I could compare them against each other. After viewing approx 15 boats I ended up going back to one of the previously viewed boats and liked it more than I did on the first viewing. To get an idea if you can get to a marina/broker with a few boats and view 2 or 3 at a time it's obviously easier and quicker than 2 or 3 separate viewings at different locations.

 

Exactly, Whilton Marina seem to always have quite a few for sale on site & I think will give you the keys to a few at a time. I've been round there a few times, they seem to me to be overpriced for what you get (however they're far from the only ones guilty of this), whether they're generally open to offers I'm not sure and before anybody starts off I'm well aware that there are plenty of people who would say do not buy a boat from them and why, likewise there are people who have bought from them and been happy. I'm only suggesting this as a starting point for the OP to get an idea...👍

[MtB]

14 minutes ago, Crewcut said:

 

Exactly, Whilton Marina seem to always have quite a few for sale on site & I think will give you the keys to a few at a time. I've been round there a few times, they seem to me to be overpriced for what you get (however they're far from the only ones guilty of this), whether they're generally open to offers I'm not sure and before anybody starts off I'm well aware that there are plenty of people who would say do not buy a boat from them and why, likewise there are people who have bought from them and been happy. I'm only suggesting this as a starting point for the OP to get an idea...👍

 

 

Where Whilton differ from other brokers is they will accept on brokerage absolutely any boat in any condition and list it for sale. Most other brokers have an idea of the sorts of boat they'll accept and won't accept. So just like a used car lot, you go there and buy what you see, or don't buy it. Your choice, they don't care. 

 

One thing Whilton have though, is a reputation for passing off boats they have bought in themselves as brokerage sales. I suspect when a boat on brokerage fails to sell, the firm makes a low-ball offer to a disappointed seller who accepts just to get rid of it on the day. Then the listing stays on the website but now the seller is Whilton themselves. And the sales staff conveniently 'forget' this should they be asked by a potential buyer. Or possibly the management 'forgets' to even tell the staff they've bought the boat in. 

 

Just my speculation and reading of what happens there.

 

 

Edited October 28, 2023 by MtB

[Tony1]

1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

I am not sure boat "speak" to you. I made a list of my must-haves, my nice to haves and my no way would I haves. I then started looking at adverts to locate boats with as man of those attributes as possible. That threw up a fairly short list and the first one we looked at I bought.

 

 

I agreed my purchase during the 2020 lockdown, and I was based in Newcastle- so I wasn't able to travel quickly to view boats. 

I also bought the first boat I viewed, mainly because it was young enough that I wasn't too worried about problems, and the price was pretty low. 

It wasn't perfect, but it was in very good condition and the price was too good to ignore. The decision made itself really.

Maybe if I'd viewed more boats I'd have started to feel the emotional pull that people sometimes speak of.

 

My advice to the OP would be to spend some time looking on apollo duck at various types and lengths of boat, and try to get some idea of what features might be important. As a newbie you wont get it right first time- there will be some things you think are important initially, but when you move aboard you realise are not a big deal at all. And the other way round. 

But its still worth gathering ideas about what features you think you might want.

And of course, you can start asking questions here about the different features you are curious about- solar panel sizes, batteries, central heating, different types of stern, washing machines, electrics, pros and cons of different boat lengths, costs of making changes/upgrades- you name it. There will be lots of unknowns you'll be keen to get more information about, and I'm guessing you'll be doing that long before arriving the in UK.

 

[MtB]

40 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

washing machines

 

Good point. I'd say a washing machine is absolutely mandatory for a liveaboard. Especially a mum and daughter liveaboard!

 

And a good proportion of boats won't have one, or anywhere easily to add one.

 

Curiously, the other day I saw a wall-hung washing machine installed in a boat. Excellent idea.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 28, 2023 by MtB
Grammar

[Tony Brooks]

31 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Good point. I'd say a washing machine is absolutely mandatory for a liveaboard. Especially a mum and daughter liveaboard!

 

And a good proportion of boats won't have one, or anywhere easily to add one.

 

Curiously, the other day I saw a wall-hung washing machine installed in a boat. Excellent idea.

 

I doubt the OP would get a washing machine on an ex hire boat or even space to fit one, unless t had an extra bedroom.

[IanD]

36 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Good point. I'd say a washing machine is absolutely mandatory for a liveaboard. Especially a mum and daughter liveaboard!

 

And a good proportion of boats won't have one, or anywhere easily to add one.

 

Curiously, the other day I saw a wall-hung washing machine installed in a boat. Excellent idea.

 

 

Given the typical machine weight and amount of vibration they can generate when spinning, you'd have to be very sure of the strength of the wall installation... 😉

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I doubt the OP would get a washing machine on an ex hire boat or even space to fit one, unless t had an extra bedroom.

Maybe you could take the dish washer out and put it there, I see the newer ones have fitted. There is also a boat now offering laundry services looks to be on the GU probably heading London, Their details and contact seem only to be via Facebook

Edited October 28, 2023 by ditchcrawler
I like adding bits

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, MtB said:

Especially a mum and daughter liveaboard!

 

Why would 2 woman need a washing machine ?

[ditchcrawler]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Why would 2 woman need a washing machine ?

They probably wear more clean cloths than us mucky men, I know my missus does when we are on the boat

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

They probably wear more clean cloths than us mucky men, I know my missus does when we are on the boat

 

So does mine, but she generally 'washes them then thru by hand'.

When we get a 'load' she uses the twin tub - far better than an Auto-Machine.