Keeping cool

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

For the few days a year we get uncomfortable temperatures is it really worth the expense and outlay?

 

You can  always find a way to keep cool in the short term.

 

Anyway it's winter soon. You can all complain its cold and you have condensation then 🤣🤣🤣

 

We occasionally use ours in the UK, but if we didn't go to Europe where a/c comes into its own I dont think we would have had it fitted and we would just manage.

 

I dont think we would have a/c on a boat used solely in the UK.

[Lily Rose]

6 hours ago, LadyG said:

No, weill shaved Kit Kat do?

To be fair they have worked with no bait for all but this one, modern things, very sensitive. I have got some standard wooden ones but they are useless by comparison. 

Traps checked: job done.

I did have a cat before who used to announce his arrival before getting it in to boat, so I never had this problem.

 

 

I often get mice in my attic at home. I use the Rentokil or Screwfix plastic traps as they are far easier to set than the old wooden ones. I have used peanut butter as bait in the past, it works brilliantly but as the traps might be up there for months waiting for the next batch of mice to move in the bait will eventually go mouldy.

 

I now use the cheapest supermarket "value" chocolate. The mice love it and it doesn't go mouldy like peanut butter. I cut a very small piece, slightly larger than the little bait cup, and then wedge it in so the mice can't remove it easily enough to get away without setting the trap off. I've had that happen when the piece was loose but not once it's wedged in.

[booke23]

13 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Irrespective of battery type you will still need to replace (each day) 3x the 'normal' usage of a typical NB - Plus the normal usage as well.

There are dimensional constraints that limit the amount of solar a NB can carry.

 

If you want AC then accept that you need a houseboat on a permanent mooring with 'hook-up'.

 

Or a generator….you can even get cocooned ones you know!

[Alan de Enfield]

5 minutes ago, booke23 said:

Or a generator….you can even get cocooned ones you know!

 

 

Yup, those builders generators are cheap, pretty good, & big enough to do the job, I have seen many on the back deck of NBs.

 

Yes Cocooned ones are available but for some reason there is reluctance to spend £10k having one installed. Not a lot of spare space on a NB, but ideal (and proportionally lower cost) for a fat-boat.

[DShK]

1 hour ago, Naughty Cal said:

For the few days a year we get uncomfortable temperatures is it really worth the expense and outlay?

 

You can  always find a way to keep cool in the short term.

 

Anyway it's winter soon. You can all complain its cold and you have condensation then 🤣🤣🤣

40C+ heat is potentially fatal, and we will see this increasingly commonly.

 

Combined with a stagnating jet stream, when this kind of weather comes it will be more likely to hang around longer.

 

Have you noticed how half the world has been on fire for the last few years?

 

 

[magnetman]

Just now, DShK said:

40C+ heat is potentially fatal, and we will see this increasingly commonly.

 

Combined with a stagnating jet stream, when this kind of weather comes it will be more likely to hang around longer.

 

Have you noticed how half the world has been on fire for the last few years?

 

 

 

 

If all the doom and gloom about climate change is real I suspect we are going to have a lot more to worry about than air conditioning. 

 

Energy use will have to be capped and AC is well known to use a lot of it. 

 

 

[DShK]

1 minute ago, magnetman said:

 

 

If all the doom and gloom about climate change is real I suspect we are going to have a lot more to worry about than air conditioning. 

 

Energy use will have to be capped and AC is well known to use a lot of it. 

 

 

I try not to think too hard about it as it's quite terrifying.

 

I would not worry about energy caps, I don't see governments taking any decisive action like that. It simply doesn't work in a capitalist world constantly in competition with each other. Make a decision that means you fall behind and the wolves eat you.

2 hours ago, M_JG said:

https://www.truma.com/uk/en/products/truma-air-conditioning/truma-saphir-compact-storage-box-air-conditioning-system

 

Truma also do a bunk/locker mounted a/c system that would probably better suited to a boat as you dont have to contend with the difficulties of roof fitting.

 

(The limiting factor being the ammount of cubic capacity they can effectively cool, which in a lot of boats will be greater than a caravan or motorhome).

A couple of those in the bow lockers piping cold air in might work well. The inrush current is only 15 amps (AC)

[MrFish]

Given that the bilge is below water level it should be cooler than the rest of the boat so would it be beneficial to use a fan to circulate air from the bilge? 

[magnetman]

It would be a good setup. I suppose how to keep the fans clean would be a bit complicated. Maybe nice little elbows bolted to the floor blowing air out horizontally. But then you lose floor space. 

 

It seems enormously sensible to somehow use the cold bilge area as a heat exchanger. 

 

 

 

 

Pipes led up from the bilge sections to near cabin top level. Fan draws air in on one side and pushes it through the bilge areas via air to air heat exchangers then back out as cooler air. 

 

In winter the fan draws hot air from the top part of the cabin and sends it under the floor via the heat exchangers thereby warming the bilge area and keeping it dry. 

 

On a new build boat this could be feasible but an awful lot of sorting out on an existing boat. 

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, magnetman said:

In winter the fan draws hot air from the top part of the cabin and sends it under the floor via the heat exchangers thereby warming the bilge area and keeping it dry. 

 

What about when the warm damp air hits the cold base plate, will it dry it or cause condensation

[nicknorman]

1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

What about when the warm damp air hits the cold base plate, will it dry it or cause condensation

Condensation.

[IanD]

8 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

Condensation.

Exactly -- all this is basically trying to turn the hull into an air conditioner. As anyone with AC in a car will know, condensate dribbles out onto the road underneath them. OK for AC with a water drain, not so good for the inside of a steel hull... 😞

[Tony1]

On 16/09/2023 at 18:03, Tony1 said:

 

They can get into surprisingly small gaps- I left a bag of rubbish in the cratch overnight instead of taking it up to the bins, and it was gnawed through and spilled by the rats- and there was a single loose button fastener on the cratch cover.

 

On the plus side, you never hear people talking about having rats aboard, so it seems they just visit and then bugger off.

 

 

Just a brief but horrific rat update: 

I'm in a rural-ish spot not far from Anderton, and I've been leaving the stern door open for fresh air until about 9pm or later. 

Last night at around 8.30pm I was watching a bit of boater youtube as you do, keeping the volume low, when out of the corner of my eye I noticed a black object on the floor about 8 feet away. 

My eyes darted round and there it was, bold as you like- a foot-long rat. 

My cry of alarm probably disturbed a nearby boat, and it certainly disturbed the rat, which took off back down the passageway- at no great speed, it must be said- with me in hot pursuit. Fortunately for the rat, I am not able to travel at significant velocity indoors, and the beast made good its escape, through the door and up the stern steps. 

 

Thinking the danger over, I closed the door, had a stiff shot of Baileys to calm my nerves, and got back to watching youtube videos of angry cats.
Barely an hour later, in about the same spot on the floor, another rat appeared. My cry of alarm was probably louder (and more girly) than the first time.

The rat made a run for it- which was fortunate, as I didn't have a strategy in the event that it stood its ground- but this little chap turned right and ducked into the bathroom, thus leaving us in a classic stand-off situation. 

I raided the tool bag for likely weapons, but could find only a chisel and my fire poker that looked useful in any serious rat combat situation. 

 

Ideally I didnt want to make a mess in the boat, so I opened the stern door to give it an escape route, and then noticed some rat droppings near the door, indicating this rat had probably tried to leave. 

Back in the bathroom I found the rat hiding behind the radiator, but I didn't have any weapons which seemed to offer a decent chance of skewering it. 

To use the chisel I would have to lay flat on the floor, which meant that if I only managed to injure it, the rat could then jump on me and bite my face off.

Tricky. 

 

So I decided to give it a sporting chance- I stood back a bit from the doorway, and managed to reach over and spook it by dropping a bit of metal down the back of the radiator.

Cue another chase scene- the rat leapt from behind the radiator, passed me in the doorway, and made off at its best speed down towards the stern. 

The door was open, but the rat must have recalled it being closed, and this time it turned right and ducked behind the end of the bed. 

This area is currently an impenetrable mass of tools and gubbins for current DIY projects, with plenty of rat sized hiding places. But I was resolute. 

I was going to end this thing one way or the other. This rat was not going to remain on the boat overnight- at least not alive. I would get little or no sleep with the thought of healthy-sized rat scurrying all over the place.

 

I think the rat sensed my grim determination as I hauled out various tool bags, bits of gear, and even a folding bike.

After a few seconds it made a break for freedom, darting out from behind the laundry basket- but thankfully this time it scurried up the steps and out into the night. 

I had a feeling that was the end of the evening's rat-based entertainment, and thankfully I was right. 

I left a piece of bread on the floor in the saloon, and this morning it was untouched, so I feel reasonably confident I am once again the sole occupant of the boat.

But from now on, the stern door will be closed at dusk. And my search will begin for a foolproof rat self defence weapon, in case one of these horrible things ever threatens my life again.  Next time I will be ready. 

 

 

Edited September 30, 2023 by Tony1

[magnetman]

Rats are clever. Issue clear unambiguous verbal instructions or write a note and they understand. 

 

You have to make it clear you are in charge of the territory and it is a bad idea for it to be there. 

 

Lots of talking with a firm voice is amazingly effective. 

 

 

 

 

Think of the rat as like Bill Oddie. He is much more afraid of you than you are of him. 

[haggis]

21 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

 

Just a brief but horrific rat update: 

I'm in a rural-ish spot not far from Anderton, and I've been leaving the stern door open for fresh air until about 9pm or later. 

Last night at around 8.30pm I was watching a bit of boater youtube as you do, keeping the volume low, when out of the corner of my eye I noticed a black object on the floor about 8 feet away. 

My eyes darted round and there it was, bold as you like- a foot-long rat. 

My cry of alarm probably disturbed a nearby boat, and it certainly disturbed the rat, which took off back down the passageway- at no great speed, it must be said- with me in hot pursuit. Fortunately for the rat, I am not able to travel at significant velocity indoors, and the beast made good its escape, through the door and up the stern steps. 

 

Thinking the danger over, I closed the door, had a stiff shot of Baileys to calm my nerves, and got back to watching youtube videos of angry cats.
Barely an hour later, in about the same spot on the floor, another rat appeared. My cry of alarm was probably louder (and more girly) than the first time.

The rat made a run for it- which was fortunate, as I didn't have a strategy in the event that it stood its ground- but this little chap turned right and ducked into the bathroom, thus leaving us in a classic stand-off situation. 

I raided the tool bag for likely weapons, but could find only a chisel and my fire poker that looked useful in any serious rat combat situation. 

 

Ideally I didnt want to make a mess in the boat, so I opened the stern door to give it an escape route, and then noticed some rat droppings near the door, indicating this rat had probably tried to leave. 

Back in the bathroom I found the rat hiding behind the radiator, but I didn't have any weapons which seemed to offer a decent chance of skewering it. 

To use the chisel I would have to lay flat on the floor, which meant that if I only managed to injure it, the rat could then jump on me and bite my face off.

Tricky. 

 

So I decided to give it a sporting chance- I stood back a bit from the doorway, and managed to reach over and spook it by dropping a bit of metal down the back of the radiator.

Cue another chase scene- the rat leapt from behind the radiator, passed me in the doorway, and made off at its best speed down towards the stern. 

The door was open, but the rat must have recalled it being closed, and this time it turned right and ducked behind the end of the bed. 

This area is currently an impenetrable mass of tools and gubbins for current DIY projects, with plenty of rat sized hiding places. But I was resolute. 

I was going to end this thing one way or the other. This rat was not going to remain on the boat overnight- at least not alive. I would get little or no sleep with the thought of healthy-sized rat scurrying all over the place.

 

I think the rat sensed my grim determination as I hauled out various tool bags, bits of gear, and even a folding bike.

After a few seconds it made a break for freedom, darting out from behind the laundry basket- but thankfully this time it scurried up the steps and out into the night. 

I had a feeling that was the end of the evening's rat-based entertainment, and thankfully I was right. 

I left a piece of bread on the floor in the saloon, and this morning it was untouched, so I feel reasonably confident I am once again the sole occupant of the boat.

But from now on, the stern door will be closed at dusk. And my search will begin for a foolproof rat self defence weapon, in case one of these horrible things ever threatens my life again.  Next time I will be ready. 

 

 

Oh, Tony, I feel for you ! I have an unnatural fear of rats and would pro have left the boat never to return.

[Tony1]

30 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Rats are clever. Issue clear unambiguous verbal instructions or write a note and they understand. 

 

You have to make it clear you are in charge of the territory and it is a bad idea for it to be there. 

 

Lots of talking with a firm voice is amazingly effective. 

 

 

 

This namby pamby approach might work with your soft southern rats, but these northern blighters are another matter.

I will not negotiate with rats. 

 

30 minutes ago, magnetman said:

 

Think of the rat as like Bill Oddie. He is much more afraid of you than you are of him. 

 

You are seriously underestimating my cowardice. 

 

19 minutes ago, haggis said:

Oh, Tony, I feel for you ! I have an unnatural fear of rats and would pro have left the boat never to return.

 

Thank Heavens, I don't think these beasties have any real desire to set up home on a boat- unlike mice and insects.

In this case the rat very quickly lost its enthusiasm for boating, and it was only the closed door that stopped it from fleeing immediately. 

I never kept my door open after dark in Chester (or any town), but it will be a blanket rule from now on. 

These rural rats appear rather more sleek and well-groomed than their thuggish city counterparts, but both species will be met with cold steel next time they send in a boarding party.

 

 

Edited September 30, 2023 by Tony1

[magnetman]

Carbon dioxide fire extinguisher. 

 

If you asphyxiate yourself as well as the rodent don't come running to me to complain about it. 

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, Tony1 said:

 

Just a brief but horrific rat update: 

I'm in a rural-ish spot not far from Anderton, and I've been leaving the stern door open for fresh air until about 9pm or later. 

Last night at around 8.30pm I was watching a bit of boater youtube as you do, keeping the volume low, when out of the corner of my eye I noticed a black object on the floor about 8 feet away. 

My eyes darted round and there it was, bold as you like- a foot-long rat. 

My cry of alarm probably disturbed a nearby boat, and it certainly disturbed the rat, which took off back down the passageway- at no great speed, it must be said- with me in hot pursuit. Fortunately for the rat, I am not able to travel at significant velocity indoors, and the beast made good its escape, through the door and up the stern steps. 

 

Thinking the danger over, I closed the door, had a stiff shot of Baileys to calm my nerves, and got back to watching youtube videos of angry cats.
Barely an hour later, in about the same spot on the floor, another rat appeared. My cry of alarm was probably louder (and more girly) than the first time.

The rat made a run for it- which was fortunate, as I didn't have a strategy in the event that it stood its ground- but this little chap turned right and ducked into the bathroom, thus leaving us in a classic stand-off situation. 

I raided the tool bag for likely weapons, but could find only a chisel and my fire poker that looked useful in any serious rat combat situation. 

 

Ideally I didnt want to make a mess in the boat, so I opened the stern door to give it an escape route, and then noticed some rat droppings near the door, indicating this rat had probably tried to leave. 

Back in the bathroom I found the rat hiding behind the radiator, but I didn't have any weapons which seemed to offer a decent chance of skewering it. 

To use the chisel I would have to lay flat on the floor, which meant that if I only managed to injure it, the rat could then jump on me and bite my face off.

Tricky. 

 

So I decided to give it a sporting chance- I stood back a bit from the doorway, and managed to reach over and spook it by dropping a bit of metal down the back of the radiator.

Cue another chase scene- the rat leapt from behind the radiator, passed me in the doorway, and made off at its best speed down towards the stern. 

The door was open, but the rat must have recalled it being closed, and this time it turned right and ducked behind the end of the bed. 

This area is currently an impenetrable mass of tools and gubbins for current DIY projects, with plenty of rat sized hiding places. But I was resolute. 

I was going to end this thing one way or the other. This rat was not going to remain on the boat overnight- at least not alive. I would get little or no sleep with the thought of healthy-sized rat scurrying all over the place.

 

I think the rat sensed my grim determination as I hauled out various tool bags, bits of gear, and even a folding bike.

After a few seconds it made a break for freedom, darting out from behind the laundry basket- but thankfully this time it scurried up the steps and out into the night. 

I had a feeling that was the end of the evening's rat-based entertainment, and thankfully I was right. 

I left a piece of bread on the floor in the saloon, and this morning it was untouched, so I feel reasonably confident I am once again the sole occupant of the boat.

But from now on, the stern door will be closed at dusk. And my search will begin for a foolproof rat self defence weapon, in case one of these horrible things ever threatens my life again.  Next time I will be ready. 

 

 

Its not just countryside. This was the centre of Norwich a couple of weeks back.

[Tony1]

1 minute ago, ditchcrawler said:

Its not just countryside. This was the centre of Norwich a couple of weeks back.

 

They've been partying on someone's boat.  They're worse than teenagers.

 

[booke23]

8 hours ago, Tony1 said:

 

Just a brief but horrific rat update: 

I'm in a rural-ish spot not far from Anderton,

 

Thank goodness you spotted it and were able to chase it out. A different time or differently designed boat might have enabled the rat to find a hiding place quickly and unnoticed by you. 

 

You must have happened upon quite a bad infestation nearby your mooring spot. For this to happen Rats need a plentiful supply of food, water and good shelter. Is there anything nearby that might be providing this? 

[Tony1]

21 minutes ago, booke23 said:

 

Thank goodness you spotted it and were able to chase it out. A different time or differently designed boat might have enabled the rat to find a hiding place quickly and unnoticed by you. 

 

You must have happened upon quite a bad infestation nearby your mooring spot. For this to happen Rats need a plentiful supply of food, water and good shelter. Is there anything nearby that might be providing this? 

 

I don't believe rats really want to hang about in a small space where a person is coming and going very close to them all day long, so I think it was more of a food expedition than any intention to move in. 

The fact that the second rat left droppings by the stern door says to me that it spent some time there hoping to get out, and then later came into the saloon to see what was what. 

I've stayed here a couple of times before for a week or so, and I've always left the door wide open until late, so this was an unusual event (unlike Chester, where you can always see one hanging about if you look around late at night). 

I would guess that the frequency of rats along canal and river banks is such that if you leave your door open for several hours after dark, sooner or you're probably going to get the odd rat coming inside looking for the food that it can smell in your kitchen.  

In a way, I'm surprised it hasn't happened sooner- I've had my stern door wide open almost every night for the last 3 years.  

There's nothing around here I can see that would attract them tbh, although I do have two bags of kitchen waste in the cratch waiting for the facilities, so they'll definitely have detected that. 

I doubt there's an infestation on anything like the scale you see in Chester and other towns, but tbh I don't give much of a monkeys- I'll be gone in a day or two, and well away from them. 

 

 

[MtB]

On 16/09/2023 at 17:00, LadyG said:

My sliding hatch screams like a banshee if anyone ties to open it. 

 

And the hatch on your boat?

 

[booke23]

13 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

 

I don't believe rats really want to hang about in a small space where a person is coming and going very close to them all day long

 

 

I've studied and researched their behaviour quite a bit and they absolutely do not want to do this. They are smart and very neo phobic.....they hate new things and will use the same routes when going from nest to feeding area. So to even board your boat suggests these rats were very low ranking members of a very large group and totally desperate for food. As an aside you also know you are in the midst of a huge infestation when you see a rat during daylight hours too, these are also low ranking members of a large group desperate for food. 

 

[Tony1]

16 minutes ago, booke23 said:

 

I've studied and researched their behaviour quite a bit and they absolutely do not want to do this. They are smart and very neo phobic.....they hate new things and will use the same routes when going from nest to feeding area. So to even board your boat suggests these rats were very low ranking members of a very large group and totally desperate for food. As an aside you also know you are in the midst of a huge infestation when you see a rat during daylight hours too, these are also low ranking members of a large group desperate for food. 

 

 

I was maybe not quite clear enough above- this happened well after dark.

I think it was maybe even as late as 9.30pm when I saw the first one. So not a daylight thing. And the times I've popped out after dark I've never seen one (unlike Chester), so my impression is they are not present in great numbers around here. 

I must say though, it is fascinating to think that only the low rank rats would feel desperate enough to board a boat. 

I've always been supportive of the working class agenda, so in fairness I should have offered the pair of them a glass of sherry before sending them back to their more senior rat overlords. 

(On second thoughts these two oppressed rats may have thought sherry a bit too bourgeois- perhaps Carling Super would have been more appropriate.) 

 

 

Edited September 30, 2023 by Tony1

[booke23]

9 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

 

I was maybe not quite clear enough above- this happened well after dark.

 

 

Oh you were very clear, I mentioned it only in passing! 

 

9 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

 

(On second thoughts these two oppressed rats may have thought sherry a bit too bourgeois- perhaps Carling Super would have been more appropriate.) 

 

 

Being too bourgeois or not with low ranking rats is the finest line a man will ever walk.