Question about rust treatment

[squid]

Hi

I've discovered several plubing leaks since buying my boat in March. I've now either fixed or a working on them all, but some areas of the bilge are quite rusty. After starting with a couple of other products that I was later advised against I've been putting Fertan on the remaining rusty areas that I can reach. Should I leave this as it is and put the ballast back or should it have a top coat? (Eg hammerite?)

Also the rust was quite extensive, but as far as I can see (a lot of the floor is difficult to lift up) it's concentrated in where water was pooling from the various leaks, which would make sense. I'm wondering if I should try and lift more of the floor to get a better look (which is difficult and I've already taken too much time off work), or treat the bits I can reach and hope for the best? Obviously that's not something anyone can answer for certain online, but interested to hear what other people might have done in that situation. The hull survey this Feb was very positive - 9mm at least all over - but until I read more about how rust expands I was very alarmed by the extent of it.

I'll be trying to deal with the engine bilge next (get the crud out, treat the rust, paint - what with?) so please wish me luck.

 

 

 

Edited August 28, 2023 by squid
published too quickly accidently

[MtB]

1 minute ago, squid said:

Hi

I've discovered several plubing leaks since buying my boat in March. I've now either fixed or a working on them all, but some areas of the bilge are quite rusty. I'm looking for advice about how to look after the bilge

 

 

Just dry it out, it will be fine. 

 

Any painting or other finishing treatment you fancy is decorative only, really, provided the bilge remains dry. The paint product called "Danboline" works well for bilges if you want to make it look smart and tidy. 

 

 

[David Mack]

Most boats have no access to the bilges other than perhaps an inspection hatch. So you are entirely dependent on whatever paint or protection was applied when the boat was first built/fitted out. And it never gets redone (unless the boat gets a major refit). So almost every boat will have at least slightly rusty bilges after a few years. 

[Tracy D'arth]

A lump of rust 10mm thick is 1mm of steel lost. So a flaking bilge with say 2mm of rust is nothing to worry about. It will mostly be just the mill scale.

Do not Waxoil  a bilge because if ever there is any welding to the base plate, it will set on fire.

Fertan it by all means but you can safely ignore it and just ensure that there are no more leaks, if there is ever a boat totally without leaks.

[Sea Dog]

Fertan is supposed to be washed off with fresh water, probably not the best idea to then leave untreated.  I'd have thought Vactan a better choice in your circumstances.

[MtB]

3 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

Fertan is supposed to be washed off with fresh water, probably not the best idea to then leave untreated.  I'd have thought Vactan a better choice in your circumstances.

 

Yes people seem to use the names Vactan and Fertan interchangeably, but the two products are massively different. 

 

Fertan is a right PITA to use and not very effective in my experience. Vactan seems superior in every way. 

 

 

[Tonka]

32 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

A lump of rust 10mm thick is 1mm of steel lost. So a flaking bilge with say 2mm of rust is nothing to worry about. It will mostly be just the mill scale.

Do not Waxoil  a bilge because if ever there is any welding to the base plate, it will set on fire.

Fertan it by all means but you can safely ignore it and just ensure that there are no more leaks, if there is ever a boat totally without leaks.

What about the lanolin based products that are now available. Are they as flammable as waxoil

[Tracy D'arth]

2 hours ago, Tonka said:

What about the lanolin based products that are now available. Are they as flammable as waxoil

May be not, you don't see many sheep aflame.

 

As far as I know Fertan and Vactan are both tannin based but Vactan has water based vinyl as well.

I have never found not washing Fertan off to be a problem unless you are over painting. In a bilge I would leave it.

Fertan has been used to treat boiler feed water for years.

Edited August 28, 2023 by Tracy D'arth

[Alan de Enfield]

55 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

May be not, you don't see many sheep aflame.

 

But, there again, you don't see many sheep having a 'flame thrower' pushed into their orifice !

[Tracy D'arth]

2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

But, there again, you don't see many sheep having a 'flame thrower' pushed into their orifice !

Thankfully, no.

Just onto their horn buds at the opposite end!

[Alan de Enfield]

9 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Thankfully, no.

Just onto their horn buds at the opposite end!

 

We always leave their horns on - makes them easier to catch and gives you a 'handle' when shearing, calves on the other hand ......................

[Tracy D'arth]

5 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

We always leave their horns on - makes them easier to catch and gives you a 'handle' when shearing, calves on the other hand ......................

De-budding calves is a horrible job but dehorning when they are older is even worse.

Sorry, thread drift. I am off topic.

 

Is this why sheep don't rust even though they are outside?  😜

[LadyG]

In the UK calves are disbudded for welfare reasons, they can be injected to reduce pain. It's still a trauma for them, they would prefer to stay in a field all day.

Sheep are not usually  horned, most are sent to slaughterhouse before maturity 

 

Edited August 28, 2023 by LadyG

[Alan de Enfield]

7 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Sheep are not usually  horned,

 

There are many breed in the UK that are horned - and obviously sheep kept for wool are unlikely to be killed before maturity.

 

The :

 

Dorset

Exmoor

Hebridean

Jacob (4-horned)

Lonk

Norfolk

Ronaldsay

Scottish Blackface (One of the most popular breeds worldwide)

Wiltshire

 

And I'm sure there are more I've not thought of.

 

The Jacob

 

 

 

The Scottish Blackface

 

[Tracy D'arth]

  Sorry I got into this but it was not I that said " lanolin"! Baa!

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

  Sorry I got into this but it was not I that said " lanolin"! Baa!

 

Don't go all 'sheepish' on us now.

 

Sometimes ewe have to ram home the message.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

We always leave their horns on - makes them easier to catch and gives you a 'handle' when shearing, calves on the other hand ......................

… mmm…a handle for shearing….really …you being honest?

 

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, Goliath said:

… mmm…a handle for shearing….really …you being honest?

 

 

 

 

C'mon - you are really thinking about the wide legged wellies aren't you !

[Tracy D'arth]

3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Don't go all 'sheepish' on us now.

 

Sometimes ewe have to ram home the message.

Don't you lambast me!  🤐

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Don't you lambast me!  🤐

 

 

You trying to pull the wool over my eyes ?

[ditchcrawler]

32 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

I had to cut one of them when it turned into his eye.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

30 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

C'mon - you are really thinking about the wide legged wellies aren't you !

and velcro gloves 🧤?

[LadyG]

13 hours ago, MtB said:

 

Just dry it out, it will be fine. 

 

Any painting or other finishing treatment you fancy is decorative only, really, provided the bilge remains dry. The paint product called "Danboline" works well for bilges if you want to make it look smart and tidy. 

 

 

There was a comment recently that Danboline has been dumbed down, ie noticeably not as good as it was.

I would never use Hammerite as it is only good for metal railings.

I would ask a suppliers of paints for advice, off the cuff, something from Jotun, two pack epoxy, but I'm not sure.

[john.k]

If you seal over rust ,you will likely accelerate the rate of rusting and failure.............the simplest effective way of removing rust from steel is flame spalling ,followed by light wire brushing and a vacuum cleaner 

[MtB]

9 hours ago, LadyG said:

There was a comment recently that Danboline has been dumbed down, ie noticeably not as good as it was.

 

And steel from 20 years ago was better. Always has been. I remember being assured of this back in 1977.

 

Last time I used Danboline is seemed (and smelled!) the same as it ever was.