Insurance claims in the event of sinking

[Captain Pegg]

I have an old version of the Propmate but on a longer shaft with a T handle. I can't recall actually ever using it.

 

I'm with @magnetman on this subject. Most fouls come off with the ordinary boathook and the next implement in the hierarchy is like small twin grappling hooks on a long shaft. Someone probably knows a name for that. I also have some vicious looking homemade cutting tool. This is all for use on a boat without a weedhatch.

 

In the event that the general implements don't work I find a knife or scissors is usually needed. That of course means getting at least your arms in the water.

[ditchcrawler]

10 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

I have an old version of the Propmate but on a longer shaft with a T handle. I can't recall actually ever using it.

 

I'm with @magnetman on this subject. Most fouls come off with the ordinary boathook and the next implement in the hierarchy is like small twin grappling hooks on a long shaft. Someone probably knows a name for that. I also have some vicious looking homemade cutting tool. This is all for use on a boat without a weedhatch.

 

In the event that the general implements don't work I find a knife or scissors is usually needed. That of course means getting at least your arms in the water.

Its surprising what a good pair of scissors will remove. clothing with that heavy tape that always gets round the shaft in a loop for a start

 

[magnetman]

40 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

the next implement in the hierarchy is like small twin grappling hooks on a long shaft. Someone probably knows a name for that. 

Maybe a body drag? 

 

Assuming you don't mean a keb. 

 

In the Thames Police museum in Wapping they have a couple of body drags but they are attached to a line rather than a shaft. 

 

I found a 3 tine shaft mounted grappling iron a number of yars ago with the magnet. Quite a big thing. 

 

The police body drags have 4 miniature grappling hooks spaced apart on an iron bar. The museum also have a policeman's grappling iron which I very much like as it is lead weighted. And a large snagging hook which is an oversized boathook with a large crook and an offset spike. 

 

Good little museum not sure how often it is open but they have some interesting gear in there including the Marchioness searchlight. 

 

 

 

 

[IanD]

1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

Its surprising what a good pair of scissors will remove. clothing with that heavy tape that always gets round the shaft in a loop for a start

 

I've used a folding pruning saw and heavy-duty wire cutters in the past, but this does mean delving into the water, and sometimes you just need to pull like mad to get stuff off the prop.

 

The propmate looks like it might work well in this case, I was hoping for some actual experience from people who have used one -- is it good or a waste of space?

[Captain Pegg]

1 hour ago, magnetman said:

Maybe a body drag? 

 

Assuming you don't mean a keb. 

 

In the Thames Police museum in Wapping they have a couple of body drags but they are attached to a line rather than a shaft. 

 

I found a 3 tine shaft mounted grappling iron a number of yars ago with the magnet. Quite a big thing. 

 

The police body drags have 4 miniature grappling hooks spaced apart on an iron bar. The museum also have a policeman's grappling iron which I very much like as it is lead weighted. And a large snagging hook which is an oversized boathook with a large crook and an offset spike. 

 

Good little museum not sure how often it is open but they have some interesting gear in there including the Marchioness searchlight. 

 

 

 

 

 

A little search online suggests it's just a double boat hook. But whereas with the traditional 'pointy bit and hooky bit' boat hook has a rounded and blunt hook this has two opposing square section prongs curved through nearly 180 degrees and with sharpened ends. It's therefore really good at gripping stuff and allowing it to be pulled or ripped off the prop.

 

If it transpires that one person has a Propmate but hardly if ever needs to use it despite not having a weedhatch, nobody else has one, and we aren't all currently laid up with fouled props that we can't clear by other methods then perhaps @IanD has the evidence he is seeking.

 

My experience is that when you need to cut something you need to do it in a specific place up close to the prop. Scissors or a knife are probably best for that and they are implements you probably have to hand anyway.

 

 

[magnetman]

14 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

 

A little search online suggests it's just a double boat hook. But whereas with the traditional 'pointy bit and hooky bit' boat hook has a rounded and blunt hook this has two opposing square section prongs curved through nearly 180 degrees and with sharpened ends. It's therefore really good at gripping stuff and allowing it to be pulled or ripped off the prop.

 

If it transpires that one person has a Propmate but hardly if ever needs to use it despite not having a weedhatch, nobody else has one, and we aren't all currently laid up with fouled props that we can't clear by other methods then perhaps @IanD has the evidence he is seeking.

 

My experience is that when you need to cut something you need to do it in a specific place up close to the prop. Scissors or a knife are probably best for that and they are implements you probably have to hand anyway.

 

 

 

Ah yes 

 

It was your description of having two grappling hooks which confused me..

 

Some of the boathooks I had out with the magnet had the inside of the hook part filed down to form a blade. I gave most of my boat hook collection to Michael Pinnock although I kept my favourite ones and the old GUCCo ice podger and the old GJCCo flat tined keb. And the old GJCCo Funny shaped boathook I found. 

And some other things ! 

 

 

 

 

 

this goes back a while. 

 

Company asset I wonder why it is such an odd shape. 

 

 

 

 

This one seems to have had the inside of the hook filed at some stage presumably for clearing prop fouls. 

 

Another feature is that you can get quite a useful cutting edge between the spike and the hook if the thing is forged correctly. Push and pull options. 

 

 

 

 

 

[IanD]

33 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

 

A little search online suggests it's just a double boat hook. But whereas with the traditional 'pointy bit and hooky bit' boat hook has a rounded and blunt hook this has two opposing square section prongs curved through nearly 180 degrees and with sharpened ends. It's therefore really good at gripping stuff and allowing it to be pulled or ripped off the prop.

 

If it transpires that one person has a Propmate but hardly if ever needs to use it despite not having a weedhatch, nobody else has one, and we aren't all currently laid up with fouled props that we can't clear by other methods then perhaps @IanD has the evidence he is seeking.

 

My experience is that when you need to cut something you need to do it in a specific place up close to the prop. Scissors or a knife are probably best for that and they are implements you probably have to hand anyway.

 

 

I've got plenty of experience getting stuff off the prop -- weed, carpet, clothes, sacks, rope, fishing nets, plastic sacks, tie straps, fenders -- and was just hoping for some helpful feedback. Oh well, never mind, I thought it was a bit much to ask... 😞

[magnetman]

Another one 

 

 

 

 

Bargee Bill made some interesting prop clearing tools. 

 

Possibly a useful self defence weapon as 'thats where we always keep it'. 

 

 

 

 

I think an old school garden slasher with some strategic angle grinder cutouts could prove to be quite a useful tool for this. 

 

 

[peterboat]

On 27/08/2023 at 15:19, wandering said:

OK, that is quite promising. I hope I can get similar treatment because I am effectively homeless after funnelling some redundancy money into the boat. Do you know his insurer? I'm with craftinsure. 

I have seen craftinsure raise 2 boats both were written off and both were bought back. They were quick and good in both cases, it's why I am insured with them

[wandering]

7 minutes ago, peterboat said:

I have seen craftinsure raise 2 boats both were written off and both were bought back. They were quick and good in both cases, it's why I am insured with them

My boat appears to be floating again but the insides are a big, dirty mess. Craftinsure said it's likely to be written off but they're awaiting the surveyor report. They also said I can make an offer to buy the boat back before they sell it as scrap. Hope if I can buy it back I can gut it myself and have enough money to pay someone to make it livable again...

[magnetman]

If it were me I would definitely want to get the boat back as long as it is established for certain what caused the sinking. 

 

Depending on how long it has been under water it seems that a lot of things might dry out quite well if you light the fire and keep it going 24/7 for a while regardless of the weather. 

 

 

 

[peterboat]

45 minutes ago, wandering said:

My boat appears to be floating again but the insides are a big, dirty mess. Craftinsure said it's likely to be written off but they're awaiting the surveyor report. They also said I can make an offer to buy the boat back before they sell it as scrap. Hope if I can buy it back I can gut it myself and have enough money to pay someone to make it livable again...

I hope so, my boat is my home, its subject to an agreed valuation when I converted it to electric and installed pots of solar and a generator. Its insured for 140k which is right to buy a replacement, craftinsure have never asked me what I paid or what the conversion cost. They were pleased that I had lifepo4 batteries however 

Boats are available at slightly more than yours just make sure it's not a scam though. This may or may not?

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/736844514912796/?ref=facebook_story_share

Edited September 1, 2023 by peterboat

[Alan de Enfield]

48 minutes ago, wandering said:

My boat appears to be floating again but the insides are a big, dirty mess. Craftinsure said it's likely to be written off but they're awaiting the surveyor report. They also said I can make an offer to buy the boat back before they sell it as scrap. Hope if I can buy it back I can gut it myself and have enough money to pay someone to make it livable again...

 

Glad the news is looking positive - if you get your £27k back and can buy it for scrap value (say) £5k-£7k you have £20k left to spend on getting it back into being liveable.

 

Priority is to get the engine flushed properly, and then running properly. The longer you leave it (particularly is it is now out of the water) the easier it will be. It is actually better to leave it submerged but I'm guessing you don't have any say in the matter.

 

You can then start stripping out ruined soft furnishings, and getting the electics and gas looked at by a 'suitable person'.

 

If the sinking was caused by a 'no cost' fixable (like the weed hatch cover) then I'd say you could get a pretty reasonable result with your £20k.

If, there is a serious (expensive) hull repair needed I'd very carefully consider how to move forward.

 

Good luck.

Edited September 1, 2023 by Alan de Enfield

[wandering]

9 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Glad the news is looking positive - if you get your £27k back and can buy it for scrap value (say) £5k-£7k you have £20k left to spend on getting it back into being liveable.

 

Priority is to get the engine flushed properly, and then running properly. The longer you leave it (particularly is it is now out of the water) the easier it will be. It is actually better to leave it submerged but I'm guessing you don't have any say in the matter.

 

You can then start stripping out ruined soft furnishings, and getting the electics and gas looked at by a 'suitable person'.

 

If the sinking was caused by a 'no cost' fixable (like the weed hatch cover) then I'd say you could get a pretty reasonable result with your £20k.

If, there is a serious (expensive) hull repair needed I'd very carefully consider how to move forward.

 

Good luck.

Judging from what I had seen everything looked the same as it was before it sank except this time water wasn’t pouring in from the weed hatch. Granted there was some water damage to the floorboards  (which now have holes in), walls and other things (like the fridge, the fuse box looked like it had sort of exploded). Engine was all mucky and oily. Anyone know what a newer engine might cost or getting a second hand one in a decent condition? May be worth replacing my old BMC for something newer?

 

On Monday they’ll take the boat fully out of the water and pop it on hard standing. I’ll reach out to their team once the insurer have got back to me to prioritise the engine. I’ve already asked the businesses based around Redhill if there are any fitters around so I can fish for quotes re fixing it out and some kind strangers (including painter and decorator and a carpenter) have offered their expertise and help too.
 

I can do the messy work of gutting it as it’ll be on hard standing for a month before I have to start paying the Marina for the pleasure. So any labourers will have a blank canvas to work on. I’m glad she is only 39ft as that makes things a bit better from a cost perspective. 

I’ll keep all you updated on how things progress. 
 

 

[MtB]

48 minutes ago, wandering said:

I can do the messy work of gutting it as it’ll be on hard standing for a month

 

One word of advice. Get it back in the water ASAP and before you start the work of gutting it. Work on the interior of a boat on the hard standing takes twice as long as in the water. The Constant climbing in and out of the boat up and down a ladder is an utter ball-ache compared to just stepping out onto the mooring pontoon.

 

 

[magnetman]

Ladder accidents can be nasty. 

 

Definitely get it in the water plus a boat on water feels right psychologically in a way that a boat on land never can..

 

As long as it is floating.

 

 

 

 

I would dry it out first then think about what needs stripping. You might find depending on materials that quite a lot of the interior can be saved. 

 

Removing and reinstalling interiors is a LOT of work. 

 

Of course if you want a 'blank canvas' and can get the boat back at a good price it could be a good opportunity to rearrange. 

 

Maybe that is what is needed. 

 

 

 

[MtB]

2 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Ladder accidents can be nasty. 

 

Yes. I forgot to point out that nearly every trip up and down the ladder will also be carrying something into or out of the boat. Why else would you be leaving or entering! 

 

 

[magnetman]

One wonders what the unsurance status would be if one were to fall off a ladder onto a large group of schoolchildren doing a boatyard educational tour resulting in 18 fatalities and a nasty crane accident followed by ambulances in the canal and a fire engine driving into a shored-up boat resulting in a major fire due to petrol stored inappropriately. 

 

It could get a bit awkward. Boat better off in water I think. 

 

 

Edited September 2, 2023 by magnetman
ttpo

[MtB]

2 minutes ago, magnetman said:

One wonders what the insurance status would be if one were to fall off a ladder onto a large group of schoolchildren doing a boatyard educational tour resulting in 18 fatalities and a nasty crane accident followed by ambulances in the canal and a fire engine driving into a shored-up boat resulting in a major fire due to petrol stored inappropriately. 

 

It could get a bit awkward. Boat better off in water I think. 

 

Read the policy!

 

 

[wandering]

30 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

One word of advice. Get it back in the water ASAP and before you start the work of gutting it. Work on the interior of a boat on the hard standing takes twice as long as in the water. The Constant climbing in and out of the boat up and down a ladder is an utter ball-ache compared to just stepping out onto the mooring pontoon.

 

 

Ohh, OK! That is a good piece of advice. Didn't know that. I was told they will take it out and it can be on hard standing for a while but if she floats then you make a good point about it the ladders. I assume they imagined she needed to be on hard standing in case there was a hull issue (which I don't believe there is. She was only surveyed 7 months ago and I was told she is in very good nick for her age. I wonder if the marina will allow me to work on her from the water rather than hard standing... 

[Alan de Enfield]

11 minutes ago, magnetman said:

One wonders what the unsurance status would be if one were to fall off a ladder onto a large group of schoolchildren doing a boatyard educational tour resulting in 18 fatalities and a nasty crane accident followed by ambulances in the canal and a fire engine driving into a shored-up boat resulting in a major fire due to petrol stored inappropriately. 

 

It could get a bit awkward. Boat better off in water I think. 

 

 

 

The claim would probably exceed the limit of cover.

 

We had to have proof of varying levels of cover (in the local language) when we bought the Cat back from Croatia.

 

The UK cover was £3 million but Greek law demands a minimum of £5 million.

[David Mack]

1 hour ago, wandering said:

 

I can do the messy work of gutting it

Why do you need to gut it? I would take out everything removable, including things like appliances, drawers and liftable floor panels, then just hose down the inside and pumping out from the bilges. Do this a few times to get rid of the mud, and then let it dry out - maybe use a dehumidifier to speed the process, and you may well find most of the fitout has survived.

Soft furnishings too may survive with professional cleaning. Your engine is almost certainly recoverable, the gas system is probably fine as it is. 

A few days underwater does not mean you are starting from scratch.

[wandering]

Thought I'd share some pics here of the boat after being refloated:

 

1. https://ibb.co/vJq4rqj
2. https://ibb.co/bX2Y8SS
3. https://ibb.co/yqw9LVg
4. https://ibb.co/b6TrcVQ
5. https://ibb.co/7yTcWzL
6. https://ibb.co/QKqp4yz

3 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Why do you need to gut it? I would take out everything removable, including things like appliances, drawers and liftable floor panels, then just hose down the inside and pumping out from the bilges. Do this a few times to get rid of the mud, and then let it dry out - maybe use a dehumidifier to speed the process, and you may well find most of the fitout has survived.

Soft furnishings too may survive with professional cleaning. Your engine is almost certainly recoverable, the gas system is probably fine as it is. 

A few days underwater does not mean you are starting from scratch.

I suppose from seeing it, understanding my own limitations re: handy work and not really knowing how big the job in front of me is. I just assumed getting it all out and starting a fresh might be the easier thing to do, especially if I can give a labourer a "fresh canvas". But I don't know much! This is my first time dealing with something like this. 

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

On 27/08/2023 at 20:34, LadyG said:

So what?

I bought the boat four years ago. It has doubled in value. I am not going to risk losing  £30K for the sake of saving £100pa. 

You may not know this, but the price of new narrowboats is rising day , cost of materials, cost of labour . This alone has a lerverage effect on the second hand market. In addition, demand remains strong.

 

I doubt your boat has doubled in price, what you think it’s worth in your mind is totally different to real world boat sales, put some details on so people know what your dreaming of, year, fitout and what you paid for it.

 Or you could be delusional like Foxes afloat and Silver Fox saying they had the most famous boat on the canals, you can say yours is famous as having the most discussed problems on the Canal Discussion Forum👍 

Edited September 2, 2023 by BoatinglifeupNorth

[Tracy D'arth]

I may look like a disaster but I have seen much worse brought back to life.

Much better than a fire.

Recovered several sinking boat over the years.

The engine and gearbox will be fine. Do not turn it over at all. The sump may be full of water but the oil will have risen up the bores and they will be fine.

Wash the mud off everything, electrics, alternator, starter, etc. and pump out the bilge.

Then drain all the oils and fuel from the engine and gearbox. Check the fuel tank, pump out the bottom if there is any water in there.

Fill with fresh cheapest oils and let it all dry out before turning it over by hand. You may find it locks up hydraulically. If so tighten all the exhaust tappets  A LITTLE BIT so that the valves are only just not closing, this will let the oil out of the bores. Keep turning by hand until the starter will spin it.

Set the tappets. Bleed it and fire it up. Run it for a few hours. ( consider that the batteries will be likely OK but keep an eye on them to see if they are charging normally. ) Change the oils if they are milky otherwise run it for longer.

Edited September 2, 2023 by Tracy D'arth