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Calor Gas 13 Kg. Propane Cylinder


NB Alnwick

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I understand that these items have become scarce but we have acquired a spare one too many.

I know that they go for a premium on eBay and similar auction sites but if any forum member is in desperate need and is willing to collect it from our boat, currently moored at Cropredy Marina, we would happily exchange it for something more useful (like a beer or red wine)!

Please pm me if interested.

Edited by NB Alnwick
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25 minutes ago, Steilsteven said:

You could sell it back to Calor, I think they pay £7 for them.

 

Keith

 

If I ever choose to sell my 3rd one (at home in the garden and little-used) that's the last place it would go. £7 is a cheek given how much they charge when you buy - assuming you could find somewhere to sell you one without a swap. I'd rather give it away to a deserving cause.

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Worth asking the coal boat. One of the London coal boats was paying £15 for calor cylinders. 

 

They might give you a brown envelope for the contraband and ask you to tell nobody. 

 

They know where you live !

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12 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

You never own a Calor cylinder, its not yours to sell.

 

For this reason I would never buy one.

 

I might however, make an 'ex gratia' donation to the coffers of someone who didn't want the one they had, but also didn't own.

 

 

 

Edited by MtB
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8 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

You never own a Calor cylinder, its not yours to sell.

Well there were two with the boat when we purchased it in 2005 - one could therefore argue that we did buy them as part of the package.

We also hired two more from Calor at the then exhorbitant price of £57.95 each. That said, I have no idea how they managed to multiply over the last 18 years but aftyer many many exchanges, we now have five and only have room for four!

 

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I don't think cartel is putting it too strongly. Does Calor own the IP for that particular size of bottle or more importantly I suppose the valve threads for the pigtails?

 

From speaking to a couple of chandlers they say that Calor are a nightmare to deal with and won't let them buy bottled gas from anyone else. If it's not a cartel then it's certainly a monopoly - how do they get around the anti-competition laws?

Edited by blackrose
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Calor's business model is perfectly legal.  Sodastream adopted it a couple of decades ago.

 

Originally, when you bought a Sodastream machine, you also bought the gas cylinder that came with it.  Sodastream would accept your cylinder in part exchange when you bought a new one, but you always owned any gas cylinders you bought, outright, and so could do what you liked with them.

 

A third party company then started supplying Sodastream-compatible cylinders. They would also accept Sodastream cylinders in part exchange, and would obliterate the Sodastream markings, refill them and sell them bearing their own labels.

 

Sodastream took them to court, but lost because once their cylinders had been sold, they no longer had any property rights in them. So they changed their business model to the Calor gas type, meaning that now you only buy the gas in a Sodastream cylinder, the cylinder itself remains the property of Sodastream, and third party companies can no longer refill and re-lable Sodastream cylinders as their own products, they must supply their own cylinders.

 

We still have our milk delivered in glass bottles, and the bottles have markings saying that they are the property of the dairy.  

Edited by Ronaldo47
typos
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1 hour ago, Ronaldo47 said:

 

We still have our milk delivered in glass bottles, and the bottles have markings saying that they are the property of the dairy.  

 

Amazing! Are they delivered in a Tesla, too?

 

 

 

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I am pretty sure it's a diesel van. Very quiet though, usually comes around midnight, delivery on alternate days only: Mon, Wed, & Fri. The depot is too far away to allow the use of the old type of milk float, especially with the many steep roads we have locally. 

 

Actually, having just checked, our present empties are unmarked.

Edited by Ronaldo47
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2 hours ago, blackrose said:

I don't think cartel is putting it too strongly. Does Calor own the IP for that particular size of bottle or more importantly I suppose the valve threads for the pigtails?

 

From speaking to a couple of chandlers they say that Calor are a nightmare to deal with and won't let them buy bottled gas from anyone else. If it's not a cartel then it's certainly a monopoly - how do they get around the anti-competition laws?

I had a conversation at an Anglo-Welsh yard when looking for a particular size cylinder.  fortunately, they had one but complained long and loud about the treatment they received fro m Calor despite the amount of gas the company bought.

2 hours ago, Ronaldo47 said:

We still have our milk delivered in glass bottles, and the bottles have markings saying that they are the property of the dairy.  

So do we but the markings say they are the property of dairies spread over a hundred miles radius and not the dairy that delivers.

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30 minutes ago, Ronaldo47 said:

I am pretty sure it's a diesel van. Very quiet though, usually comes around midnight, delivery on alternate days only: Mon, Wed, & Fri. The depot is too far away to allow the use of the old type of milk float, especially with the many steep roads we have locally. 

 

Actually, having just checked, our present empties are unmarked.

Ours comes in an electric van, 3 days a week. Get bread off him, too. Bottles from random dairies. I assume they share...

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5 hours ago, blackrose said:

........    Does Calor own the IP for that particular size of bottle or more importantly I suppose the valve threads for the pigtails?

 

My understanding is that UK Copyright and Design law has "must fit" and "must match" provisions that exclude from protection, features (like screw thread configurations) of a design that are provided for connecting something to something else.  But then I retired a decade ago and the law never stands still, normally in the direction of increasing the protection given to large businesses, at least insofar as increasing the duration of exclusivity  is concerned.

 

The law is different in other countries: In the USA it is possible to get exclusive rights for special screw thread coupling configurations, something that I believe is used by companies in the oil drilling industry to ensure that third parties cannot make stuff that can be connected to their own proprietary  pipework.

Edited by Ronaldo47
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2 hours ago, NB Alnwick said:

We used to get our pop delivered by Corona in re-sealable bottles but that was in the good old days when our railways were still British . . .

I remember during the pandemic that the strapline for their bubble characters wouldn't have been great if they were still in business. "I've passed my Corona fizzical".

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1 hour ago, Ronaldo47 said:

My understanding is that UK Copyright and Design law has "must fit" and "must match" provisions that exclude from protection, features (like screw thread configurations) of a design that are provided for connecting something to something else.  But then I retired a decade ago and the law never stands still, normally in the direction of increasing the protection given to large businesses, at least insofar as increasing the duration of exclusivity  is concerned.

 

The POL connectors on propane are industry standard. All the other connections I believe are proprietary and Calor have the rights to them. This still does not make them a "cartel". In fact I don't think BR understands what the term means from the way he uses it. I think he means monopoly, which Calor still are not. Anyone (including BR) is free to design and manufacture their own range of LPG gas bottles and set up a distribution network to compete with Calor. Several already have but so far, none has achieved the market penetration Calor enjoy as a fruit of their long term investments over many decades. 

 

 

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To be fair I think that Calor could be described as part of a cartel. Obviously they are not in themselves a cartel but do you ever see reasonably priced bottled gas at boatyards? 

 

The 13kg bottles for example are fairly heavy which makes it less easy to cycle off into the distance and find it cheaper. 

 

There is also a long and illustrious and traceable history of Calor buying up a LOT of smaller providers of bottled gas. 

 

I personally think that provision of bottled gas in sensible sizes could be described as a cartel.  There are several suppliers. Not many and they are in cahoots around pricing. 

 

IMG_20230820_201218.jpg.819f6fdd924cb7bded3260bb34449710.jpg

List of gas supplier brands owned by Calor (from their website)

 

  • Abbott Gas
  • Anglesey Gas
  • Astra Gas
  • Autogas
  • BCS Cheaper Gas
  • Bell Gas
  • Best Gas
  • Blackburn Gas
  • Border Gas
  • Brita Gas Ltd
  • Budget Gas Ltd
  • Calor Gas
  • Castle Gas
  • Compact Gas
  • Corral Gas
  • Cosy Gas
  • CPS Fuels & CPS Gas
  • Darnley – Wakefield
  • D G Supplies
  • Discount Gas
  • Easy Gas
  • Elf
  • ELF Anglia
  • ELF Flexigas
  • ELF Propower
  • Eurogas
  • Firepalm
  • Flexigas
  • GL Gas
  • Glogas
  • Go-Gas Cylinders
  • Hardy & Collins
  • Heatlink
  • Heron Gas
  • Hingley Gas
  • Homeheat
  • Jackson Gas
  • K Gas
  • KG Smith
  • Kim Gas
  • King Gas
  • Knight Gas
  • Knottingley Gas
  • LBG London – Bottled Gas
  • L&B Gas
  • London Gas
  • LPG Direct
  • MG Gas Supplies
  • Manchester Gas
  • Mariner Gas
  • MB Gas
  • Merrell Gas
  • Mitchell Gas
  • Northern Gas
  • Norvic Gas
  • PD Fuels
  • Pennine Gas
  • PML
  • Primagas
  • Propower
  • Quadgas
  • Quadstoke
  • R&R Gas
  • Roberts Fuels Ltd
  • Rochdale Gas
  • Rogas
  • Scottish Rural Gas
  • Sheppards Industrial Services (SIS)
  • Solo Gas
  • SR Jackson
  • Stubbings Gas
  • Swift Gas Ltd
  • Tank Gas
  • The Gas Man
  • The Gasman
  • Traford Gas
  • Trident Gas
  • Try Gas
  • UKPP
  • Vitagas
  • West Wales Gas
  • WWG

 

 

So yeah. 

 

 

Cheaper Gas and Budget Gas Ltd stick in the craw a little. 

I don't know what they did there but somehow they seem to have knocked all of those suppliers out. 

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