Home made wine

[JemShaun]

Hi everyone, was just wondering if any of the liveaboards make there own country wines/beers on the boat? 

I used to many years ago on land, however I've got an urge to start again 

[Tracy D'arth]

14 minutes ago, JemShaun said:

Hi everyone, was just wondering if any of the liveaboards make there own country wines/beers on the boat? 

I used to many years ago on land, however I've got an urge to start again 

Many make wine, there are breweries on narrowboats!

[HenryFreeman]

I've made beer on the boat. It's not too tricky overall but maintaining a stable temperature is the most difficult bit and temperature control overall is tough going but not impossible. Less of a problem with certain beer yeasts. Too high a temperature and your beer/wine will have weird flavours, too cold and it'll take forever to ferment.

[TandC]

As Henry says - brewing it is doable (gas, water, dealing with the condensation etc allowing) - but for a really successful batch it is the fermentation temperature that is key.  Maintaining temps at a nice and steady 19degrees C for three weeks is what I aim for (depending slightly on beer style).

 

I brew on shoreline - and that allows me to have a small insulated box the size of a fermenting bin.  I have a little tube heater and a STC1000 temperature controller that turns the heater on and off.   If you brew when the ambient temperature is lower than 20degrees, you just need the heater to click on and off to keep it at that - and the external air temperature brings it down.   I have another version using a fridge, and the controller turns the fridge on and off, and the heater on and off.  That's in my shed... and with that arrangement you can brew top  notch beer all year round - but it needs 240v.

 

The other option is to brew based on ambient air temperature - the current weather is probably about as good as you're going to get - warm enough that you get a decent fermentation, not too hot that the fermentation runs away and you get lots of bad flavours.  If its around 17degrees outside, that'll do nicely. 

 

Crack on and give it a go!

 

 

[ditchcrawler]

44 minutes ago, TandC said:

    I have another version using a fridge, and the controller turns the fridge on and off, and the heater on and off.  That's in my shed... and with that arrangement you can brew top  notch beer all year round - but it needs 240v.

 

 

 

 

My dad use to use an old chest freezer with an electric light bulb on a thermostat in it, Shielded the light from the wine 

[Bobbybass]

I met a few making oodles of wine. They didn't even use bubblers...but plastic lemonade bottles with steriliser soaked cotton wool in the neck. I crewed with some well known boaters and they had made a still out of an old pressure cooker ( YouTube)... Worked well...I think....as far as I can remember  😃 😀 😄 

[Machpoint005]

Home fermentation (brewing and wine making) is fine, but distilling spirits is illegal unless you have a Rectifier's Licence. 

 

Just like a "tax disc" for an old car, the licence is free, but you must have one.

 

 

[HenryFreeman]

9 hours ago, Machpoint005 said:

Home fermentation (brewing and wine making) is fine, but distilling spirits is illegal unless you have a Rectifier's Licence. 

 

Just like a "tax disc" for an old car, the licence is free, but you must have one.

 

 

 

A rectifier's licence only lets you redistill duty paid neutral spirits - so, for example, if you want to take a vodka/neutral grain spirit and turn it into gin, you can do that with a rectifier's licence. To distill spirits from an alcohol wash requires a distiller's licence which HMRC usually require a minimum still size of over 1200 litres (though some smaller distilleries with good business plans get away with smaller stills)

 

That said, no one on a home scale gets "done" for distilling and given home brew shops up and down the country sell the stills and everything else required to make spirits, it's possibly fair to say HMRC are looking elsewhere and are probably more interested in people like this fella

 

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/local-news/dodged-7m-in-duty-with-his-illegal-still-984008

 

"Don't tell, don't sell" is the motto in the community, of which I'm definitely not a member of. 

Edited August 4, 2023 by HenryFreeman

[Tam & Di]

We made a variety of wines in the 60s when we lived on Progress; elderberry and rose petal come particularly to mind. The elderberry was disgusting and I shoved it under a bench and forgot about it. Several years later I stumbled on it and tried it again, and it had really come good. Now we spend a lot of time in Burgundy it's not worth the bother.  😃

[Machpoint005]

3 hours ago, HenryFreeman said:

 

A rectifier's licence only lets you redistill duty paid neutral spirits - so, for example, if you want to take a vodka/neutral white spirit and turn it into gin, you can do that with a rectifier's licence. To distill spirits from an alcohol wash requires a distiller's licence which HMRC usually require a minimum still size of over 1200 litres (though some smaller distilleries with good business plans get away with smaller stills)

 

That said, no one on a home scale gets "done" for distilling and given home brew shops up and down the country sell the stills and everything else required to make spirits, it's possibly fair to say HMRC are looking elsewhere and are probably more interested in people like this fella

 

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/local-news/dodged-7m-in-duty-with-his-illegal-still-984008

 

"Don't tell, don't sell" is the motto in the community, of which I'm definitely not a member of. 

 

Thank you for correcting me, and sorry if my post misled anyone. I'll go with my original intention, which was to say that home distillation is illegal in the UK. 

 

 

[HenryFreeman]

Just now, Machpoint005 said:

 

Thank you for correcting me, and sorry if my post misled anyone. I'll go with my original intention, which was to say that home distillation is illegal in the UK. 

 

 

 

That is certainly true!

[Peanut]

I seem to recall that putting it in the freezer does the trick. The water freezes out and the liquor can be decanted.  Not sure, as I've never tried it.

 

When making Poitin, you had the mash in a cauldron over the fire, the lid on upside down. A bowl floating on the surface collected the distillate. Should the revenue man come round, you pushed the bowl under and gave it a stir with the wooden spoon. No evidence to see.

 

Of course, this is something you should never do.

Edited August 4, 2023 by Peanut
typo

[Machpoint005]

Even if you use a freezer, it's still* a distillation process, so illegal. The yield would be very disappointing, though.

 

 

 

 

.*see what I did there?

😁

 

Edited August 4, 2023 by Machpoint005

[Ronaldo47]

You used to need a licence for any sort of still, regardless of what was being distilled. In the 1960's my school chemistry lab had a still that was used for making its own distilled water, and that had to be licenced and was inspected from time to time.  

[MtB]

1 hour ago, Ronaldo47 said:

You used to need a licence for any sort of still, regardless of what was being distilled. In the 1960's my school chemistry lab had a still that was used for making its own distilled water, and that had to be licenced and was inspected from time to time.  

 

Is that what they told you it was for?!

 

[Peanut]

I ran a water still at work for over twenty years, no licence needed nowadays.  I still have it.

[Ronaldo47]

In the 1970's, a school friend became an industrial chemist, working at a local power station. They had their own distilled water still, and he mentioned that it used to get periodic inspections to check what it was being used for.  But that was some decades ago, and rules and regulations do change over time. I have a vague recollection that before the law changed around 1960, home brewing of beer was illegal. 

[tree monkey]

On a tangent slightly but I have about 20 demijohns available free for collection if anyone is interested, North West area

[Wanderer Vagabond]

On 04/08/2023 at 13:50, Machpoint005 said:

 

Thank you for correcting me, and sorry if my post misled anyone. I'll go with my original intention, which was to say that home distillation is illegal in the UK. 

 

 

Even if it were legal, is it wise to do so? Having visited one or two distilleries whilst in Scotland (hic) one of the things that they tell you is that a percentage of the first distillate isn't used because it has a high percentage of the 'wrong' sort of alcohol. The one you want is ethyl alcohol but you also end out with  amyl alcohol (the one that gives you the headache) and methyl alcohol (the one in methylated spirits). If you are not a full-on chemist how do you know what you've got? and how do you separate the various alcohols?

[Hudds Lad]

24 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

Even if it were legal, is it wise to do so? Having visited one or two distilleries whilst in Scotland (hic) one of the things that they tell you is that a percentage of the first distillate isn't used because it has a high percentage of the 'wrong' sort of alcohol. The one you want is ethyl alcohol but you also end out with  amyl alcohol (the one that gives you the headache) and methyl alcohol (the one in methylated spirits). If you are not a full-on chemist how do you know what you've got? and how do you separate the various alcohols?

Thats why they discard the first 100ml or so, believe it’s known as the “angels share”, as thats when the majority of nasty crap comes out. Not an exact science for a bootlegger, hence the stories of stuff that’ll make you blind etc. I’ve been tempted by an air still in the past, but don’t drink enough spirits to justify it.

[sigsegv]

2 minutes ago, Hudds Lad said:

Thats why they discard the first 100ml or so, believe it’s known as the “angels share”, as thats when the majority of nasty crap comes out. Not an exact science for a bootlegger, hence the stories of stuff that’ll make you blind etc

 

thankfully, the antidote to methanol poisoning is ethanol! So unless you take your first cuts and don't mix them with the rest of your distillate, methanol poisoning is pretty unlikely.

[ditchcrawler]

List of methanol poisoning incidents

 

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

Outbreaks of methanol poisoning have occurred when methanol is used to adulterate moonshine (bootleg liquor).^[1]

Methanol is toxic to humans via ingestion due to metabolism. If as little as 10 ml of pure methanol is ingested, for example, it can break down into formic acid, which can cause permanent blindness by destruction of the optic nerve, and 30 ml is potentially fatal,^[2] although the median lethal dose is typically 100 ml (3.4 fl oz) (i.e. 1–2 ml/kg body weight) of pure methanol.^[3] This does not happen with ethanol, which breaks down into acetic acid, which is non-toxic in small amounts. Reference dose for methanol is 0.5 mg/kg/day.^[4] Toxic effects take hours to start, and effective antidotes, like ethanol, can often prevent permanent damage.^[2] Because of its similarities in both appearance and odor to ethanol (the alcohol in beverages), it is difficult to differentiate between the two.

Australia[edit]

In 2013 three people died and one suffered partial blindness when they ingested a home-made beverage containing methanol.^[5]

In 1997 two people from Central Australia died and two survived after ingesting a drink made from methanol and other alcoholic beverages.^[6]

Brazil[edit]

In 1999, 35 people died, in ten cities of the state of Bahia as a result of drinking cachaça contaminated with methanol. Further investigation revealed concentrations as high as 24.84% methanol. As other different cases have also been related, in a 20-day window there have been 450 people hospitalized with the toxicity symptoms of methanol ingestion.^[7]

Cambodia[edit]

In 2012, 49 people died, and more than 300 people were hospitalized, after drinking rice wine contaminated by methanol.^[8]

Costa Rica[edit]

25 persons died in August 2019 due to methanol poisoning.^[9]

Czech Republic[edit]

Main article: 2012 Czech Republic methanol poisonings

The 2012 Czech Republic methanol poisonings occurred in September 2012 in the Czech Republic, Poland and Slovakia.^[10] Over the course of several days, 38 people in the Czech Republic^[11] and 4 people in Poland died as a result of methanol poisoning and several tens of others were taken to hospital.^[12][13]

El Salvador[edit]

In El Salvador, as many as 122 people died in 2000 as a result of drinking low quality liquors sold in unauthorized shops that were found to be adulterated with methanol.^[14] The incident prompted the authorities to declare a 10-day emergency prohibition and a massive inspection of alcohol-vending establishments. The root cause was believed to be an act of terrorism, possibly a social cleansing campaign targeted against alcoholics,^[15] as the offending distilleries were not found to be responsible for the methanol contents that were present in the affected liquors.^[16]

Estonia[edit]

Main article: Pärnu methanol poisoning incident

The Pärnu methanol poisoning incident occurred in Pärnu county, Estonia, in September 2001, when 68 people died and 43 were left disabled after contents of stolen methanol canisters were used in production of bootleg liquor.

India[edit]

See also: List of alcohol poisonings in India

India has a thriving moonshine industry, and methanol-tainted batches have killed over 2,000 people in the last 3 decades, including:

• 1976: 100 people died in Gujarat.
• 1980: 44 died in Haryana
• 1981: About 308 people in Karnataka, see 1981 Karnataka liquor deaths.
• 1982: 78 people killed and at least 50 injured in Vypeen alcohol poisonings at Vypin, Kerala.
• 1986: 108 died in Gujarat.
• 1987: 200 died in Gujarat.
• 1988: 32 people died in Gujarat.
• 1992: More than 200 people in Odisha, see 1992 Odisha liquor deaths.
• 2001: 27 deaths in Bombay.^[17]
• 2004: In December 2004, 87 people died in Mumbai.^[18]
• 2006: 22 people killed in Ganjam district, Orissa.
• 2008: 148 people in Karnataka & Tamil Nadu, December.^[19] see 2008 Karnataka-Tamil Nadu hooch tragedy
• 2009: 27 people killed in Kolkata, West Bengal
• 2009: 29 people killed in Uttar Pradesh
• 2009: 136 people in Gujarat, July, see 2009 Gujarat alcohol poisonings.
• 2009: >30 deaths, Delhi.^[17]
• 2009: >30 deaths, Orissa Bolangir.^[17]
• 2010: 35 people killed in Ghaziabad and Bulandshahr districts, Uttar Pradesh
• 2010: 23 people killed in Malappuram district, Kerala
• 2010: 10 deaths, Uttar Pradesh.^[17]
• 2011: 17 dead in andhra Pradesh, August.^[20]
• 2011: 170 people in Sangrampur, December, see Sangrampur methanol tragedy.^[21]
• 2012: 17 deaths, Andhra Pradesh.^[17]
• 2012: 31 deaths, Orissa.^[17]
• 2012: 18 people died in Gurdaspur district of Punjab in a possible methanol-poisoning incident. The Chemical Analyzer and Histo-pathology department took care of the bodies and will ascertain the exact cause of death.^[22]
• 2013: 40 people died in Azamgarh district, Uttar Pradesh.^[23]
• 2015: In June 2015, more than 90 people died in Mumbai.,^[18] see 2015 Mumbai alcohol poisoning incident
• 2017: On 3 January at least 6 people died at Ramgopalpur,^[24] West Bengal
• 2019: In February 2019, 100 people in the northern states of Uttar Pradesh and Uttarakhand died by drinking toxic alcohol.^[25]
• 2019: In February 2019, just days after the Uttar Pradesh and Uttarakhand deaths (above), 156 people (mostly tea plantation workers) died in Assam state. see 2019 Assam alcohol poisonings
• 2022: 2022 Gujarat Toxic Liquor deaths

Indonesia[edit]

Arak that has been laced has contributed to deaths due to methanol toxicity.^{[26][27][28][29]}

Iran[edit]

In 2013, as a result of methanol mass poisoning in Iran^[30] 694 people were hospitalised in the city of Rafsanjan. 8 people were reported dead due to severe intoxication.

During the COVID-19 pandemic in Iran, nearly 300 people died and over a thousand became ill from drinking methanol in the belief that drinking it can kill the virus in the body.^[31]

Ireland[edit]

Two men were killed in a methanol poisoning incident near to Burtonport, County Donegal, Republic of Ireland in 2014 after drinking what was claimed to be poitín (an Irish moonshine made from potatoes).^[32] One man was native Irish and the other a Lithuanian immigrant. A bottle seized at the scene of one poisoning was found to contain 97% methanol.^[33][34]

In 2017 a person was severely poisoned after buying "vodka" from an unlicensed seller in the Ballymun area of Dublin; the bottle had been refilled with a liquid containing methanol.^[35][36][37]

Italy[edit]

In 1986 the methanol-tainted wine scandal^[38] was a fraud perpetrated by adulterating table wine with methanol, poisoning over a hundred people, with 90 hospitalized, 23 deaths, and many others heavily injured (blindness and neurological damages).^[39]

Libya[edit]

At least 51 people died in Tripoli in 2013.^[40] The consumption and sale of alcohol is illegal in Libya.^[40]

Madagascar[edit]

The Madagascar methanol mass poisoning occurred in 1998 when 200 people died.^[41]

Malaysia[edit]

From September until October 2018, 45 people have been reported died of methanol poisoning from drinking fake liquor.^[42] In this incident, the methanol content was up to 50 times more than the permissible amount.^[43] Cases of toxic alcohol poisoning have been reported in Selangor, the Federal Territories of Kuala Lumpur and Putrajaya, Perak and Negeri Sembilan.^[42] The deaths comprised various nationalities mostly of foreign workers from Bangladesh, Indonesia, Myanmar and Nepal.^[42] Around 30 people including three Indian nationals, believed to be responsible for the distribution of cheap counterfeit liquor to retailers around Selayang and Desa Jaya which led to the methanol poisoning incident have been arrested.^[44][45]

Mexico[edit]

Government restrictions on liquor and beer sales during the COVID-19 pandemic may have exacerbated the problem of illegal production and sale of alcoholic beverages in Mexico. Reportedly, 35 people died in 2020 in just one mass poisoning incident due to methanol tainted drinks.^[46]

Morocco[edit]

Between September 28 and 29, 2022, 21 deaths occurred in the northern Moroccan city of Ksar El Kebir.^[47] Between May 31 and June 02, 2023, 9 deaths occurred in the Moroccan city of Meknes.^[48]

Nigeria[edit]

Between April 14 and April 26, 2015, 23 deaths were recorded in relation to methanol poisoning in Ayadi and Ode-Irele towns of Irele Local Government Area in Ondo State.^[49]

66 people in Rivers State died over a few weeks that started in April 2015 due to methanol-contaminated ogogoro.^[50][51][52]

Norway[edit]

Between September 2002 and December 2004, 51 people were admitted to hospital with symptoms of methanol poisoning, of whom 9 died. A further 8 people who died outside hospital were found to have died from methanol poisoning following autopsy. The liquor responsible for all of the cases contained 20% methanol and 80% ethanol and probably came from the same source in southern Europe.^[53]

Peru[edit]

In October 2022 in Lima, Peru 54 people died due to consuming Punto D Oro fruit flavored vodka that was laced with methanol. The source of the methanol was from windshield washer fluid and antifreeze ^[54]

Philippines[edit]

In December 2019, at least 23 people died while around 300 were hospitalized after drinking methanol-laced palm liquor, locally known as lambanog, in the provinces of Laguna and Quezon.^[55][56] Separate incidents of methanol poisoning involving lambanog were also reported in 2018 which caused at least 21 deaths.^[57]

Russia[edit]

Russian poster warning people about the dangers of drinking methanol.

In December 2016, 72 people died in a mass methanol poisoning in Irkutsk, Siberia. The poisoning was precipitated by drinking counterfeit surrogate alcohol—actually scented bath lotion that was marked as not safe for consumption.^[58] Named Boyaryshnik ("Hawthorn"),^[59] it was described by the Associated Press as being counterfeit.^[60]

In October 2021, in Orenburg, 35 people died and 33 others were poisoned in a mass surrogate alcohol poisoning. 7 people were noted as being in serious condition, and 3 people were placed on ventilators. 10 people were arrested for the incident.^[61]

Also in October 2021 18 people died and a number were poisoned in another mass surrogate alcohol poisoning in Yekaterinburg and towns nearby. Two persons were arrested.^[62]

In May-June 2023, at least 30 people died and 96 were poisoned in the Samara region by cider contaminated with methanol and ethyl butyrate. The contaminated alcohol had reportedly been stolen from a warehouse of the Russian Interior Ministry. Four people, including one police officer, were arrested.^[63]

Spain[edit]

Main article: Spanish Methanol Poisonings

In 1963, methanol was used in the preparation of bottled mixed alcohol drinks such as coffee liqueur. According official records, 51 died and 9 lost their sight, but according to newspapers there may have been thousands of victims, mainly in Galicia and the Canary Islands.^[64][65]

Turkey[edit]

Further information: 2011 Turkish Riviera mass alcohol poisoning

• 2004 - 21 deaths in Istanbul,^[17]
• 2005 - 23 deaths in Istanbul,^[17]
• 2011 - 5 Russian tourists died in the Turkish Riviera,^[66]
• 2015 - 32 deaths in Istanbul,^[67][68] 3 deaths in Izmir.^[69]
• 2020 - At least 44 deaths from bootleg drink made with methanol around the country ^[70][71]
• 2021 - 22 deaths in Istanbul.^[72]

Uganda[edit]

Main article: Waragi § Incidents

In April 2010, 80 people died from multiple organ dysfunction syndrome after drinking waragi adulterated with a high amount of methanol over a three-week period in Kabale District.^[73][74][75] Many of the deaths were blamed on the reluctance of people to openly admit their relatives had been drinking it, allowing the abuse of the substance to continue.^[74][75] When revelations came about houses were searched, with around 120 jerrycans uncovered.^[75]

United States[edit]

In December 1963, a rash of 31 deaths in Philadelphia's homeless population was traced to a local store that knowingly sold Sterno to people for them to consume and get drunk.^[76]

In January 2016, consumption of a mixture of Mountain Dew and methanol, referred to as Dewshine, resulted in the reported deaths of two Tennessee high school students.^[77] The methanol in this case was believed to come from racing fuel.^[78][79]

In April 2018, a Massachusetts man died after ingesting alcohol that was contaminated with methanol. The product consumed was labeled "Ethanol Extraction 95% ethanol and 5% water". An FDA recall was issued and the company is no longer selling the product which was sold over the internet and shipped by the U.S. Postal Service.^{[citation needed]}

[MtB]

6 hours ago, Ronaldo47 said:

I have a vague recollection that before the law changed around 1960, home brewing of beer was illegal. 

 

Having tried it myself once or twice, it still ought to be. 

 

 

[Wanderer Vagabond]

1 hour ago, MtB said:

 

Having tried it myself once or twice, it still ought to be. 

 

 

You obviously weren't doing it right I used to home-brew beer about 25 years ago and adopted the recipes of the Belgian beermakers and didn't put any sugar in it. The beer was brewed using pure malt extract and the results were awesome

[HenryFreeman]

16 hours ago, Hudds Lad said:

Thats why they discard the first 100ml or so, believe it’s known as the “angels share”, as thats when the majority of nasty crap comes out. Not an exact science for a bootlegger, hence the stories of stuff that’ll make you blind etc. I’ve been tempted by an air still in the past, but don’t drink enough spirits to justify it.

 

The first runnings are called the foreshots and mostly contain methanol which you throw away or use as a cleaning substance. 

 

The angel's share is the losses when the spirit is aged in the cask and over the course of 10-20 years ageing a distillery might lose 2% per year.

 

 

16 hours ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

Even if it were legal, is it wise to do so? Having visited one or two distilleries whilst in Scotland (hic) one of the things that they tell you is that a percentage of the first distillate isn't used because it has a high percentage of the 'wrong' sort of alcohol. The one you want is ethyl alcohol but you also end out with  amyl alcohol (the one that gives you the headache) and methyl alcohol (the one in methylated spirits). If you are not a full-on chemist how do you know what you've got? and how do you separate the various alcohols?

 

On a small scale, the amount of methanol you can produce is highly unlikely be enough to make you go blind or kill you.

 

And if you're making a spirit you'd actually want to drink, you're more likely than not to be throwing away the first 15-20% of the distillate - which would contain the foreshots and the heads - so you're not going to be keeping anything that contains methanol.

 

It is something of an urban legend about moonshine making you go blind and while it's definitely possible to make yourself ill in reality if you're doing this properly, which isn't that difficult to do, it's not a concern. Throw away the first 2% which you'd do anyway, and you don't have to worry.