Mooring line release knot

[GUMPY]

Just moor with long springs and no breast ropes🤔

[Tony1]

On 27/06/2023 at 18:10, rusty69 said:

My god man. How many days do you spend up these trees?

Another good one is a rolling hitch.

 

I use a rolling hitch on a short centre line that has a mooring nappy pin on it. I can hook it onto some armco and its a great help with holding the boat still in windy weather, until I get the stern and bow ropes tied. 

But I do find it can bind up if left for a while, and I've sometimes had the devil of a job freeing it up when I needed to shorten or lengthen the length of the rope. 

Now it must be added I am a rank amateur with almost no experience, so it could be I'm tying it wrong in some way. But at the moment anyway, I would not want to reply on having to free up a rolling hitch under great strain in an emergency. 

 

If the water level really had dropped and you only realised when the boat was already hanging up and under strain, Magnetman's solution of an emergency rope cutter would solve the problem most quickly. In fact they would work even better with a very taut rope. 

 

Out of interest, I tested my rope cutter and it severed a 12mm mooring line (that was not under strain) in a couple of seconds. 

I think people who are relying on knives or axes to cut ropes in an emergency should test out their blade several times on a thick mooring line, before adopting it permanently. 

 

 

[MtB]

52 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

I think people who are relying on knives or axes to cut ropes in an emergency should test out their blade several times on a thick mooring line

 

Yes. And somebody else's, presumably?

 

😅

[rusty69]

7 hours ago, Tony1 said:

I think people who are relying on knives or axes to cut ropes in an emergency should test out their blade several times on a thick mooring line, before adopting it permanently. 

I have a gerber ez out which seems pretty good at the task. 

[Tony1]

6 hours ago, MtB said:

 

Yes. And somebody else's, presumably?

 

😅

 

Alas no. As amusing as it would doubtless be to watch some old duffer splashing away in pursuit of his trad (and I say that as somewhat of an old duffer myself), the more civilised option is to experiment using a bit of one of those old coils of rope that we all have hanging about somewhere. 

I have a sneaking suspicion that there isn't a boater in the world who doesn't have at least one old coil of rope lurking about somewhere.

 

15 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

I have a gerber ez out which seems pretty good at the task. 

 

I think the serrated edge on that will be really helpful, although I imagine a dedicated emergency rope cutter is possibly the best option- and the safest, because the blade is mostly surrounded by plastic to stop you cutting yourself in your extremity of haste (e.g. if the blade slipped down the rope and hit your hand, etc). 

 

The thing about cutting a rope in an emergency is that thankfully, very few of us have to do it in anger, e.g. with a boat hung up by mooring rope.

And most people won't have tried to practice their intended technique with their cutting tool. 

For example, I found out in my trials of the rope cutter that very rapid and short jerking back and forth are the most effective, and if the blade drifted from the original cutting location, it slowed the job down as you would imagine.  

You have to get a really good grip on the rope, remembering in your blind panic not to grip the rope at a point that will remain attached to the boat, otherwise you will end up on the roof or in the drink, and possibly injured.

In some of those situations eg being hung up in a lock) I imagine that literally every second matters, and cutting a rope in 1 second as opposed to 5 seconds might save the boat.

But despite my cunning plan, the sad truth is that if ever happened to me (again), its more than likely that I would panic and forget all about the rope cutter. 

 

 

[magnetman]

A slitting disc on a cordless angel grinder is brilliant for cutting ropes. 

 

 

 

 

[rusty69]

37 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

 

Alas no. As amusing as it would doubtless be to watch some old duffer splashing away in pursuit of his trad (and I say that as somewhat of an old duffer myself), the more civilised option is to experiment using a bit of one of those old coils of rope that we all have hanging about somewhere. 

I have a sneaking suspicion that there isn't a boater in the world who doesn't have at least one old coil of rope lurking about somewhere.

 

 

I think the serrated edge on that will be really helpful, although I imagine a dedicated emergency rope cutter is possibly the best option- and the safest, because the blade is mostly surrounded by plastic to stop you cutting yourself in your extremity of haste (e.g. if the blade slipped down the rope and hit your hand, etc). 

 

The thing about cutting a rope in an emergency is that thankfully, very few of us have to do it in anger, e.g. with a boat hung up by mooring rope.

And most people won't have tried to practice their intended technique with their cutting tool. 

For example, I found out in my trials of the rope cutter that very rapid and short jerking back and forth are the most effective, and if the blade drifted from the original cutting location, it slowed the job down as you would imagine.  

You have to get a really good grip on the rope, remembering in your blind panic not to grip the rope at a point that will remain attached to the boat, otherwise you will end up on the roof or in the drink, and possibly injured.

In some of those situations eg being hung up in a lock) I imagine that literally every second matters, and cutting a rope in 1 second as opposed to 5 seconds might save the boat.

But despite my cunning plan, the sad truth is that if ever happened to me (again), its more than likely that I would panic and forget all about the rope cutter. 

 

 

 

I've never used a rope cutter, but they look like a great cheap solution for emergency situations. I suppose the only limitation is that if you are faced with a large diamter line, it may not cope as well as a serrated knife.

 

I bought the EZ out for sailing, and have only used it once in anger. It made short work of a taut line. Alas, the battery on my cordelss angle grinder was flat at the time, and I don't much like getting it wet anyway.

 

Hows that epoxy job of yours going? This week isn't it?

7 minutes ago, magnetman said:

A slitting disc on a cordless angel grinder is brilliant for cutting ropes. 

 

 

 

 

It's not nice to mutilate angels.

Edited July 17, 2023 by rusty69

[magnetman]

3 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

 

. I suppose the only limitation is that if you are faced with a large diamter line, it may not cope 

 

Cordless chainsaw for the ship hawsers. 

 

 

[rusty69]

Just now, magnetman said:

 

Cordless chainsaw for the ship hawsers. 

 

 

They only work on chain.

[magnetman]

There is that. 

 

I have a 36 inch bowsaw in which I have mounted a carbide bandsaw blade. Cuts anything. 

 

 

[Tony1]

23 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

 

I've never used a rope cutter, but they look like a great cheap solution for emergency situations. I suppose the only limitation is that if you are faced with a large diamter line, it may not cope as well as a serrated knife.

 

I bought the EZ out for sailing, and have only used it once in anger. It made short work of a taut line. Alas, the battery on my cordelss angle grinder was flat at the time, and I don't much like getting it wet anyway.

 

Hows that epoxy job of yours going? This week isn't it?

It's not nice to mutilate angels.

 

The angle grinder could easily be attached to the head mounted within a small aluminium frame, ready to deploy at the first sign of trouble (although admittedly one might encounter trouble of a different sort walking about with a head-mounted ginder). 

 

I was intending to put an update in that thread of yours when the epoxy's done, as I knew you'd be interested in the outcome, but I can say so far so good. 

The pressure washer did a pretty good job- it was helped by the fact that its not been blacked for over 3 years, so lots of places had almost no bitumen left anyway below the waterline, so the post-wash surface looked to be  about 60% exposed metal, and the remainder was very thin bitumen.

If you do the same pressure washing with blacking that's only two years old, you might see less of the exposed metal at the end of it, but it certainly removed any loose rust.

I was concerned about some significant patches of rust I'd seen below the waterline when I was in clearer water, but the chap here says the hull looks pretty good, and he has no concerns about its state, so I might get 5 years of decent protection- although I'll probably haul out after 3 just to check. 

Primer went on yesterday, and hopefully first epoxy coat today, but we'll see- weather forecast is so changeable its ridiculous. The front 2/3 of the boat are sheltered by a huge railway viaduct over the drydock, but of course its still no use if the rear third is soaked by rain. 

Lovely spot to spend a week though, and the guy is brilliant- like many others, I'd highly recommend them from what I've seen so far.   

 

 

14 minutes ago, magnetman said:

There is that. 

 

I have a 36 inch bowsaw in which I have mounted a carbide bandsaw blade. Cuts anything. 

 

 

 

I reckon you're set up more for a zombie apocalypse than a rope cutting scenario Mr M. 

If it does happen, I'll probably head for your vessel. 

Then again, all those southerner zombies would be a right pain. 

 

Edited July 17, 2023 by Tony1

[Alan de Enfield]

45 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

The angle grinder could easily be attached to the head mounted within a small aluminium frame, ready to deploy at the first sign of trouble (although admittedly one might encounter trouble of a different sort walking about with a head-mounted ginder). 

 

I think there are probably more convenient places to access a cutting tool in an emergency than the 'Head' (Toilet)

[Tony1]

1 hour ago, rusty69 said:

 

I bought the EZ out for sailing, and have only used it once in anger. It made short work of a taut line. Alas, the battery on my cordelss angle grinder was flat at the time, and I don't much like getting it wet anyway.

 

 

I hope the OP will forgive another slight aside, but I am curious about this sailing malarkey- if I ever get bored of canals (or have to flog the boat off because of a future ban on IC engines, say). 

I've watched several youtube videos so I'm now something of an expert on the whole thing, and I must say it looks like jolly hard work.

Very little sleep (when on a passage), even less water than on a narrowboat (so very few showers to be had even in very hot weather), you get bounced around like clothes in a washing machine and sometimes seasick, you pay lots of money to be allowed to tie onto a mooring buoy a bounce around for one single night, everything costs an arm and a leg, and everything is constantly being strained and broken by the often severe forces involved.

And if you haven't set your anchor properly, the boat could drift off onto some rocks whilst you're asleep, and be smashed to bits. 

So why on earth did you pack it in? 

 

Admittedly I might have gotten a skewed impression about this from watching too many videos of one dashing young youtuber - called Shackleton, I believe. Terrible taste in knitwear but seems a smashing fellow. Likes ice, I gather. 

 

9 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I think there are probably more convenient places to access a cutting tool in an emergency than the 'Head' (Toilet)

 

Ah, my dear Mr Enfield - you've made the understandable mistake of confusing my very pleasant head with the very unpleasant head that resides in the bathroom. 

Attaching any sort of grinder to that head would seem a rash project. Every call of nature would become a perilous undertaking. 

Not to mention, one imagines there will be a BSS clause forbidding the attachment of grinders to the toilet.

Unless properly earthed, of course. 

 

 

Edited July 17, 2023 by Tony1

[rusty69]

1 minute ago, Tony1 said:

So why on earth did you pack it in? 

You seem to have summarised sailing pretty well.

 

We still have the sailing boat, and are in fact off to stay on it today, but very rarely use it for actual sailing anymore.It's more of a holiday caravan these days, mainly for some of the reasons you state, with only occasional use up the coast and back.

 

We used to do quite a bit of coastal and day sailing, but never any night sailing. Like a lot of people, we had great dreams to sail to the med, but were never rich/brave (delete as appropriate) enough to do it.

 

Sailing itself is not that difficult,but chuck in some navigation, tides etc, particularily coastal sailing single handed, and it is more of a challenge than inland boating imo.

 

[MtB]

1 hour ago, magnetman said:

There is that. 

 

I have a 36 inch bowsaw in which I have mounted a carbide bandsaw blade. Cuts anything. 

 

 

 

 

Will it cut the time it takes to do Hatton, single handed?

 

 

[rusty69]

1 hour ago, magnetman said:

I have a 36 inch bowsaw in which I have mounted a carbide bandsaw blade. Cuts anything. 

Will it cut Mrs R's rock cakes?

[IanD]

1 hour ago, magnetman said:

There is that. 

 

I have a 36 inch bowsaw in which I have mounted a carbide bandsaw blade. Cuts anything. 

 

 

Difficult to fit in your pocket though...

2 hours ago, Tony1 said:

 

Alas no. As amusing as it would doubtless be to watch some old duffer splashing away in pursuit of his trad (and I say that as somewhat of an old duffer myself), the more civilised option is to experiment using a bit of one of those old coils of rope that we all have hanging about somewhere. 

I have a sneaking suspicion that there isn't a boater in the world who doesn't have at least one old coil of rope lurking about somewhere.

 

 

I think the serrated edge on that will be really helpful, although I imagine a dedicated emergency rope cutter is possibly the best option- and the safest, because the blade is mostly surrounded by plastic to stop you cutting yourself in your extremity of haste (e.g. if the blade slipped down the rope and hit your hand, etc). 

 

The thing about cutting a rope in an emergency is that thankfully, very few of us have to do it in anger, e.g. with a boat hung up by mooring rope.

And most people won't have tried to practice their intended technique with their cutting tool. 

For example, I found out in my trials of the rope cutter that very rapid and short jerking back and forth are the most effective, and if the blade drifted from the original cutting location, it slowed the job down as you would imagine.  

You have to get a really good grip on the rope, remembering in your blind panic not to grip the rope at a point that will remain attached to the boat, otherwise you will end up on the roof or in the drink, and possibly injured.

In some of those situations eg being hung up in a lock) I imagine that literally every second matters, and cutting a rope in 1 second as opposed to 5 seconds might save the boat.

But despite my cunning plan, the sad truth is that if ever happened to me (again), its more than likely that I would panic and forget all about the rope cutter. 

 

 

I was put in exactly that position thanks to a CART maintenance worker who confidently suggested something to a less-experienced crew member (using two turns round a bollard instead of one) that caused the boat to heel over in a filling lock when the rope locked up.

 

I didn't have a rope cutter, thankfully the same CART worker (they were doing some handrail carpentry) had a saw which he used to cut the rope with (see above). I estimate the boat had heeled over by maybe 20 degrees by this point, so it didn't half rock from side to side when released. Cost us a bottle of gin and a bottle of chilli sauce, unfortunately mixed together with the broken glass on the floor so neither was recoverable -- but at least we didn't sink.

 

The moral of this story being that just because somebody in a high-viz jacket works for CART doesn't mean they know anything about boats or working locks... 😞

 

P.S. No unhelpful "That was stupid, I wouldn't have done that" advice please (like last time this came up) -- neither would I, you weren't there and don't know the exact circumstances... 🙂

Edited July 17, 2023 by IanD

[Machpoint005]

2 hours ago, magnetman said:

A slitting disc on a cordless angel grinder is brilliant for cutting ropes. 

 

 

And for amputating wings.

 

 

Or is it for smoothing cordless celestial beings?

 

 

Edited July 17, 2023 by Machpoint005
Sp.

[Tony1]

35 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

I didn't have a rope cutter, thankfully the same CART worker (they were doing some handrail carpentry) had a saw which he used to cut the rope with (see above). I estimate the boat had heeled over by maybe 20 degrees by this point, so it didn't half rock from side to side when released. Cost us a bottle of gin and a bottle of chilli sauce, unfortunately mixed together with the broken glass on the floor so neither was recoverable -- but at least we didn't sink.

 

 

There are probably lots of risks that I don't plan or mitigate for, but because like you I was put in this situation (or rather, a near-miss), I do take emergency rope cutting seriously. 

In my case it was a helpful but inexperienced person who wrapped my stern line 4 or 5 times around a bollard in a lock, and even though I'd only been cruising for two days, I just knew it didnt look right, and that it would hang up the stern. 

The worrying thing is that in the stress of the moment as the rope began to tighten, the rope cutter in my back pocket was totally forgotten, and I focused on wrenching the rope back around the bollard before it got too tightly bound. 

Statistically, it'll probably never happen again, and it was partly caused by my total inexperience, and a large gaggle of onlookers and helpers, such that I had very little idea of what was going on. But luckily I was stood close to this helper. If I'd been advised to hold the bow line, I might not have seen what she was doing until it was too late. 

I can only hope that if the boat ever gets badly hung up, I'll have the presence of mind to act correctly and instantly.  

 

[magnetman]

Rosa Klebb's shoe could be good for this. 

 

 

Of course another approach is to secure boat in lock using ropes which would break before the boat got into trouble.

 

[IanD]

22 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Rosa Klebb's shoe could be good for this. 

 

 

Of course another approach is to secure boat in lock using ropes which would break before the boat got into trouble.

 

 

They'd have to be effectively long thin pieces of wet string then, which would break the first time you used one round a bollard to check a boat...

 

(I'm talking about the force needed to pull a boat over sideways in a rising lock like happened to us, not suspend it in a falling one...)

[magnetman]

40 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

They'd have to be effectively long thin pieces of wet string then, which would break the first time you used one round a bollard to check a boat...

 

(I'm talking about the force needed to pull a boat over sideways in a rising lock like happened to us, not suspend it in a falling one...)

 

The best thing is not to get into the situation and never let anyone else secure your boat in a lock. 

 

I did have to cut a rope on a GRP hire boat which was behind me in a Thames lock once as the deck fitting was threatening to pull out and the lock was emptying.

When on public power one can not rapidly drop the sluices or operate the other end to level the lock (lock keeper power allows both sets of sluices to be controlled at will) so the rope had to be cut. 

 

But yes it is always best not to get into these situations. 

 

[IanD]

22 minutes ago, magnetman said:

 

The best thing is not to get into the situation and never let anyone else secure your boat in a lock. 

 

I did have to cut a rope on a GRP hire boat which was behind me in a Thames lock once as the deck fitting was threatening to pull out and the lock was emptying.

When on public power one can not rapidly drop the sluices or operate the other end to level the lock (lock keeper power allows both sets of sluices to be controlled at will) so the rope had to be cut. 

 

But yes it is always best not to get into these situations. 

 

 

Thank you for that helpful (if condescending) advice, it had obviously never occurred to me that getting into a bad situation was a bad idea, I'll have to remember that... 😉

Edited July 17, 2023 by IanD

[David Mack]

2 hours ago, Machpoint005 said:

Or is it for smoothing cordless celestial beings?

I thought that in proper theatre celestial beings were always supported on thin cords from 'the gods'. Whereas in my primary school nativity play they were standing on gym equipment at the back of the stage.

[ditchcrawler]

7 hours ago, magnetman said:

A slitting disc on a cordless angel grinder is brilliant for cutting ropes. 

 

 

 

 

I carry one in my pocket all the time just in case.🤣 also handy if you lose the padlock key to the back hatch