How do you not get scammed?

[MtB]

5 minutes ago, BilgePump said:

I was pointing out that why the hell would anyone send copies of personal/boat information out to someone who might just turn up to look at a boat.

 

As an early step towards achieving a sale of the boat, obviously.

 

 

[BilgePump]

1 minute ago, LadyG said:

I am not ten minutes down the road from the boat, I am four hundred miles away.

And I'm completely confused

[LadyG]

5 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

As an early step towards achieving a sale of the boat, obviously.

 

 

There always has to be a degree of trust, it's a boat, there are no guarantees, just precautions . One of which is not accepting cash by the way .

4 minutes ago, BilgePump said:

And I'm completely confused

Someone thought I should just pop along to look at a few boats that were up for sale rather than ask for hard evidence of ownership..

Not practical if the boat is not nearby  .

Edited April 14, 2023 by LadyG

[BilgePump]

2 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

As an early step towards achieving a sale of the boat, obviously.

 

 

I'm afraid that if a random punter off apolloduck or ebay couldn't trust me enough to own a boat before proof is given, then I couldn't trust them to turn up to a viewing. Hell's bells. Does someone send copies of their house deeds off to every person who comes to view? No, because it's not necessary at that stage.

[magnetman]

4 minutes ago, LadyG said:

 . One of which is not accepting cash by the way .

 

Did you mean "not paying cash"? 

 

Accepting cash seems rather wise. 

[LadyG]

1 minute ago, BilgePump said:

I'm afraid that if a random punter off apolloduck or ebay couldn't trust me enough to own a boat before proof is given, then I couldn't trust them to turn up to a viewing. Hell's bells. Does someone send copies of their house deeds off to every person who comes to view? No, because it's not necessary at that stage.

Well, you are limiting your market to those who are near to you and who don't ask for evidence of ownership. No worries.

[Wanderer Vagabond]

8 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

In terms of the question that was asked by @Bishop Brennan I think the starting point is to say that there aren't more scams than legitimate boats for sale. I'd also say that you're not going to find a boat that any BMF member broker advertises that isn't legitimately for sale. I'm not even aware that there are brokers that aren't BMF members. That said I'm not suggesting that it's some form of cast iron safeguard but I think it's probably a good indication of a genuine broker.

 

What you won't necessarily know is whether the supposed 'broker' actually owns the boat and is therefore a dealer rather than a broker. Although come the crunch of an actual sale wouldn't this become apparent? That's nothing to do with whether the boat is legitimately for sale but it does place more stringent legal requirements on the dealer.

 

The other thing is to ask on the forum. There are members here are familiar with quite a few boats that are available and there's a fair chance that someone on the forum knows something about any boat who care to ask about.

 

It's a bit difficult to list as there a lot of brokerages. Generally accepted view of things is that Rugby Boats, Tollhouse, ABNB are high end and Venetian, Whilton, Great Haywood (who aren't actually at Great Haywood) are lower end. Lots of others in between and possibly in those same categories.

 

 

 

 

 

  

I'd be in agreement with you regarding using brokerage, particularly since if it goes belly up you have a recognised company to aim your Civil Court Case at. The area of danger however lies in transferring your payment to the Broker, since this is where the scammers operate (both with boats and houses). Whenever transferring money (even between my own accounts if one of them is new) I only transfer a small amount first and then confirm with the recipient that they've received it.

[MtB]

8 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Did you mean "not paying cash"? 

 

Accepting cash seems rather wise. 

 

 

Would you not worry that a proportion of the notes might be duds?

 

 

[BilgePump]

4 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Well, you are limiting your market to those who are near to you and who don't ask for evidence of ownership. No worries.

You said "Before I looked at my own boat I asked vendor to send me a copy of his Bill of Sale."

If that means that you are 200 miles ways from a boat and demand evidential proof from an owner before travelling to view then it's your problem that you're too far away. A narrowboat on ebay will have hundreds of watchers. Do you think a seller is going to send way too much information out to all those people without a clue who they are?

 

The time to start swapping important details is when a deal is on the table and pounds need to swap hands.

[Captain Pegg]

13 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

I'd be in agreement with you regarding using brokerage, particularly since if it goes belly up you have a recognised company to aim your Civil Court Case at. The area of danger however lies in transferring your payment to the Broker, since this is where the scammers operate (both with boats and houses). Whenever transferring money (even between my own accounts if one of them is new) I only transfer a small amount first and then confirm with the recipient that they've received it.

 

Good point. Is that where the scammer 'intercepts' an otherwise legitimate transaction and isn't the account verification process when transferring money to a business account intended to counter that?

 

I guess the advice there is to ensure you get the full business name used on the account as well as the sort code and account number so you can do that check.

 

The deposit will likely have served as a 'trial' transaction. Bank fraud detection systems are however alert to very small first time transactions as that's a scammers way of testing.

 

 

ETA - I'm feeling quite modern because the idea of handling even £100 of cash seems old hat to me.

 

 

Edited April 14, 2023 by Captain Pegg

[Tonka]

My brother in law sold his boat through a broker on the Thames. We were going past the yard and happened to see that the brother in laws boat was having a bow thruster tube fitted . In the evening we phoned the brother in law and asked "we see you have sold the boat? " no he says, "but it is having a bow thruster fitted". Next day he was onto the broker and insisted on his money. The broker was not keen to part with any. The brother in law and a friend went to the brokers house and demanded his money. He was paid

[magnetman]

8 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

 

Would you not worry that a proportion of the notes might be duds?

 

 

One checks these things.

1 minute ago, Tonka said:

My brother in law sold his boat through a broker on the Thames. We were going past the yard and happened to see that the brother in laws boat was having a bow thruster tube fitted . In the evening we phoned the brother in law and asked "we see you have sold the boat? " no he says, "but it is having a bow thruster fitted". Next day he was onto the broker and insisted on his money. The broker was not keen to part with any. The brother in law and a friend went to the brokers house and demanded his money. He was paid

 

Did the boat really need a bow thruster? 

 

Usually these are viewed as surplus to requirements on inland boats.

 

I wonder if this was in Surrey. 

[Tonka]

2 minutes ago, magnetman said:

One checks these things.

 

Did the boat really need a bow thruster? 

 

Usually these are viewed as surplus to requirements on inland boats.

 

I wonder if this was in Surrey. 

Yes it was in Surrey. It was a small de groot style boat.

[MtB]

Just now, magnetman said:

One checks these things.

 

 

Any time I handle a sum like £100k in used notes, I marvel at the patience and abilities of anyone willing and able to check every single one of them. 

 

That's 2,000 fifty pound notes. Few humans would spot all of a handful of duds sprinkled in amongst than many. 

[BilgePump]

1 minute ago, MtB said:

 

 

Any time I handle a sum like £100k in used notes, I marvel at the patience and abilities of anyone willing and able to check every single one of them. 

 

That's 2,000 fifty pound notes. Few humans would spot all of a handful of duds sprinkled in amongst than many. 

Only once have I had the opportunity to count out a hundred thousand in cash. Sadly, they were Italian lira, so about £45 at the time.

[magnetman]

5 minutes ago, Tonka said:

Yes it was in Surrey. It was a small de groot style boat.

I'm getting a motorway feeling and there is a large body of water. 

 

I will now take off my clairvoyant hat. Do ya know what it is yet?

[MtB]

3 minutes ago, BilgePump said:

Only once have I had the opportunity to count out a hundred thousand in cash. Sadly, they were Italian lira, so about £45 at the time.

 

Even with a small(ish) sum (in comparison) like £10k, I find it really hard the get the same result each time I count it. And that's without trying to spot the duds! 

[booke23]

3 hours ago, Bishop Brennan said:

it seems as if there are more scammers selling boats which don't belong to them, boats which don't exist, or going bust mid transaction than honest sellers with honest boats.

 

I don't think this is true. The vast majority of boats on Apollo Duck are likely genuine and all boats on brokerage will be genuine. 

Edited April 14, 2023 by booke23

[BilgePump]

1 minute ago, MtB said:

 

Even with a small(ish) sum (in comparison) like £10k, I find it really hard the get the same result each time I count it. And that's without trying to spot the duds! 

Those pink £500 Monopoly notes do get stuck together quite easily

[magnetman]

3 minutes ago, booke23 said:

 

I don't think this is true. The vast majority of boats on Apollo Duck are likely genuine and all boats on brokerage will be genuine. 

Given that all humans are basically struggling with the same issues around being a load of bones usefully tied together with flesh and all these other things I think is quite likely to be true. 

 

There would be little point in trying to gain an unfair advantage over others.

 

I significantly doubt anyone would try this.

 

If they do there may be a good cheap boat in it if you can repaint it quickly and not too obviously. 

 

 

 

[MtB]

6 minutes ago, BilgePump said:

Those pink £500 Monopoly notes do get stuck together quite easily

 

Oh I've just had a thought. Those green ones i keep seeing with £20 crossed out and £500 written in blue Biro, are they the duds?

[Tonka]

12 minutes ago, magnetman said:

I'm getting a motorway feeling and there is a large body of water. 

 

I will now take off my clairvoyant hat. Do ya know what it is yet?

Near a motorway but can not think of the body of water. It was not a marina

[BilgePump]

3 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Oh I've just had a thought. Those green ones i keep seeing with £20 crossed out and £500 written in blue Biro, are they the duds?

No those are like the overstamped Weimar postage stamps of ten million marks. Check out your Monopoly board. Mayfair would be a few quid more than £400 and the hotel a snip at £200.

[magnetman]

5 minutes ago, Tonka said:

Near a motorway but can not think of the body of water. It was not a marina

Reservoir? My last sentence was a coded reference to the land owner. 

 

Maybe I got it wrong !

 

 

Ze pub has ze fish tanks in ze wall. 

 

 

Edited April 14, 2023 by magnetman

[LadyG]

43 minutes ago, booke23 said:

 

I don't think this is true. ....... all boats on brokerage will be genuine. 

 

Why do you say that?

The boat I was interested in that was on brokerage was not fully owned by the vendor.

The vendor tried to get me to pay direct not through the broker.

The broker was not perturbed when I told him.

I know someone who took a company near here to court. He never got any money and the busines stil trades.

I think anyone can declare they are a broker, it means they want to take a commission when a boat is sold.

Edited April 14, 2023 by LadyG