How do you not get scammed?

[magnetman]

Boats are so incredibly cool that people break down into emotional wrecks just thinking about them.

 

It is the freedom to go one way or the other on a ditch which does it. If you have a boat about 34ft long you can sometimes turn it around whenever you like. 

 

This really gets into the psyche and causes unintended reactions which are in a lot of cases driven by the need for emotional support. Brokers know this.

 

It is very like seeing a litter of new born puppies. You want one of them. It is incredibly moving and you would do things which later may seem inexplicable and unwise just to get one of the bitches.

 

It is important to understand that buying boats is not driven by intellect but by the pure desire to own a boat which can creep along the ditches (subject to beam restrictions) and enable endless beautiful freedoms with wonderful and bountiful gardens of beautiful fruitfulness and significant joy.

And beer. 

 

 

[Captain Pegg]

9 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Boats are so incredibly cool that people break down into emotional wrecks just thinking about them.

 

It is the freedom to go one way or the other on a ditch which does it. If you have a boat about 34ft long you can sometimes turn it around whenever you like. 

 

This really gets into the psyche and causes unintended reactions which are in a lot of cases driven by the need for emotional support. Brokers know this.

 

It is very like seeing a litter of new born puppies. You want one of them. It is incredibly moving and you would do things which later may seem inexplicable and unwise just to get one of the bitches.

 

It is important to understand that buying boats is not driven by intellect but by the pure desire to own a boat which can creep along the ditches (subject to beam restrictions) and enable endless beautiful freedoms with wonderful and bountiful gardens of beautiful fruitfulness and significant joy.

And beer. 

 

 

 

Many a true word is spoken in jest.

 

It's the best answer to my question about what's so different about buying a boat.

 

Edited April 14, 2023 by Captain Pegg

[MtB]

2 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Boats are so incredibly cool that people break down into emotional wrecks just thinking about them.

 

It is the freedom to go one way or the other on a ditch which does it. If you have a boat about 34ft long you can sometimes turn it around whenever you like. 

 

This really gets into the psyche and causes unintended reactions which are in a lot of cases driven by the need for emotional support. Brokers know this.

 

It is very like seeing a litter of new born puppies. You want one of them. It is incredibly moving and you would do things which later may seem inexplicable and unwise just to get one of the bitches.

 

It is important to understand that buying boats is not driven by intellect but by the pure desire to own a boat which can creep along the ditches (subject to beam restrictions) and enable endless beautiful freedoms with wonderful and bountiful gardens of beautiful fruitfulness and significant joy.

And beer. 

 

 

So many wisdoms all crammed into one post. 

 

Amazing!!

 

You're so right about the 34ft boat. I had a 40ft NB once and it always felt like I could turn it anywhere, but I never could. It was always 3ft too long. 

 

OTOH I could nearly always turn my 68ft NB in winding 'oles marked "57ft MAX" 

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

56 minutes ago, booke23 said:

 

I'm not talking about a rogue broker, I'm referring to the statement of the OP below. Do you agree with the assertion below?

 

 

 

 

In which case I agree with you.

 

I'm sure they are a higher percentage of honest brokers than dishonest brokers - but I don't know by how much !

[PaulJ]

24 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Same here. BUT.... do they actually carry out any 'right to sell' checks? 

 

Yep- some more than others.

I did inspections for a well known and reputable brokerage for a short while. Nothing dodgy as too why I didnt do it for long- just the amount of paperwork and information was incredible and Im definitely a doer and not a cleric.

Anyway, there was a sliding scale of proof required to determine if a boat legally belonged to the people selling it and without satisfying this it couldnt go on brokerage.

[Alan de Enfield]

54 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

Genuine brokers/dealers/sellers:

 

Rugby Boats

ABNB

Tollhouse

ABC (multiple sites)

Lakeland Leisure Boat Sales (multiple sites including Great Haywood)

Great Haywood Boat Sales (multiple sites not including Great Haywood)

Whilton

Venetian

Virginia Currer/High Line

Norbury Wharf

Black Prince, ABC and Anglo-Welsh + Others (for ex-hire boats)

Ashwood

WFBC

 

There are others and I've doubtless missed a big one off the list. Plus I think plenty of marinas that sell boats locally even if they don't have a fully fledged broker/dealer arm.

 

ETA - I overlooked Norton Canes (at Glascote). Not big perhaps but certainly a seller of top end boats. And Braunston Marina.

 

 

Your list includes at least a couple of very dubious, unscrupulous brokers.

[MtB]

8 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

Your list includes at least a couple of very dubious, unscrupulous brokers.

 

Ah yes. I see the second one too now. The big whopper distracted me!! 

 

[PaulJ]

9 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

Your list includes at least a couple of very dubious, unscrupulous brokers.

I bet the humungous organisation that is Aquavista would be well chuffed too at being missed out  😀

[MtB]

6 minutes ago, PaulJ said:

I bet the humungous organisation that is Aquavista would be well chuffed too at being missed out  😀

 

Curiously, my money is on them not having noticed!! 

 

😂

 

[Captain Pegg]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

Your list includes at least a couple of very dubious, unscrupulous brokers.

 

I've already said it isn't a list of recommendations. If you think it would be useful to the OP or others interested in the thread why not name them and give your reasons?

 

1 hour ago, PaulJ said:

I bet the humungous organisation that is Aquavista would be well chuffed too at being missed out  😀

 

Covered by my catch all about marinas. 😅

 

I actually didn't realise they sold boats on the scale that they apparently do. I can't recall ever hearing of or meeting anyone that bought a boat from them.

 

Which reminds me I also missed out New & Used. I know they exist because one of their sites is just up the road from me and I moved one of their recent sales this past week.

Edited April 14, 2023 by Captain Pegg

[PaulJ]

7 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

 

I've already said it isn't a list of recommendations. If you think it would be useful to the OP or others interested in the thread why not name them and give your reasons?

 

Its a funny thing reputation- you tend to hear more bad than good .

I shifted a boat for a chap (who'd actually owned it for a few years) who was telling me what a great deal he got. Come getting the survey the boat needed loads of work which the broker (and declared owner) covered. So not all bad always. Shifted some nice boats from there too but will admit to dodging some too...😀

 

[Captain Pegg]

2 minutes ago, PaulJ said:

Its a funny thing reputation- you tend to hear more bad than good .

I shifted a boat for a chap (who'd actually owned it for a few years) who was telling me what a great deal he got. Come getting the survey the boat needed loads of work which the broker (and declared owner) covered. So not all bad always. Shifted some nice boats from there too but will admit to dodging some too...😀

 

 

It is. Are you perchance referring to a place at the bottom of a flight of locks?

 

I'm aware of those with less than stellar reputations but I think it's for those who have actually had the bad experiences to say so. There are also folk who have had good experiences of those places.

 

Ultimately the objective is to choose the right boat not the best seller. 

[PaulJ]

17 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

 

I actually didn't realise they sold boats on the scale that they apparently do. I can't recall ever hearing of or meeting anyone that bought a boat from them.

 

They have the infrastructure to be quite a force. 

Do quite enjoy trying to deliver to as many as I can. Theres a few to go yet for the full set and some I doubt I ever will..

[David Mack]

5 hours ago, Captain Pegg said:

I'd also say that you're not going to find a boat that any BMF member broker advertises that isn't legitimately for sale. I'm not even aware that there are brokers that aren't BMF members.

So? Does BMF offer any sort of guarantee or insurance scheme which would cover a buyer's losses if a BMF member broker was found to have 'sold' a boat that wasn't legitimately for sale?

[Captain Pegg]

8 minutes ago, David Mack said:

So? Does BMF offer any sort of guarantee or insurance scheme which would cover a buyer's losses if a BMF member broker was found to have 'sold' a boat that wasn't legitimately for sale?

How about you read the next two sentences that you’ve deliberately ignored in your selective quote?

[David Mack]

3 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

How about you read the next two sentences that you’ve deliberately ignored in your selective quote?

You suggest that BMF membership is a good indicator, but no guarantee. I say its much worse than that - it's completely worthless, since if anything does go wrong BMF will do absolutely nothing to compensate anyone who loses out.

[Captain Pegg]

Just now, David Mack said:

You suggest that BMF membership is a good indicator, but no guarantee. I say its much worse than that - it's completely worthless, since if anything does go wrong BMF will do absolutely nothing to compensate anyone who loses out.

The point of the advice is to guide the OP as to who they can identify as a legitimate broker.

 

I tried the seemingly novel approach of trying to address the point.

 

[john.k]

You are ten times more likely to be scammed on the condition of the boat than the title 

[LadyG]

1 hour ago, john.k said:

You are ten times more likely to be scammed on the condition of the boat than the title 

But that assumes you did not have a full survey, hull and that the vendor deliberately concealed flaws. Buying a boat is generally sold as seen backed up with the vendors written description. 

By the way, before you make an offer make sure you download the description as you won't see again it once the deal is accepted.

 

[DandV]

Well a good start is the one you have already made.

Ask on this forum.

 

And another is, to walk the the tow path, and ask questions of those you see on boats that tick some of the boxes of what you think you  want, and where geographically, you want to be, and the actual constraints that your dreams entail. Including those costs, inclement weather, and  regulatory constraints.

You will hear heaps, and learn only slightly less.

 

And another is to visit brokers, to see boats, the boats in your price range.

You will will quickly learn want you want, in relation to what you can afford to pay.

And very importantly, once the dream has either been fulfilled, or has fallen short, how to move on, to post boat life. 

How to dispose of the said boat.

 

And if the budget allows, hire a boat, close to what, and where you aspire to be. Hire it in the more climatically challenging off season. 

It will be cheaper, and more informative and the realities of boating for the most challenging part of the year. 

(Says one, who parked their narrowboat up in October, to return only in April/May)

 

At any one time, narrowboating on the UK waterways works for a very large number of people.

But at that same time, people are moving on from narrowboat life, whilst others are just beginning in competing for boats, mooring spaces, and service supplies.

 

[Bishop Brennan]

Thank you all for your replies so far. There are too many to quote individually, but most have given me good insight and tips. 

[LadyG]

On 14/04/2023 at 18:48, BilgePump said:

You said "Before I looked at my own boat I asked vendor to send me a copy of his Bill of Sale."

If that means that you are 200 miles ways from a boat and demand evidential proof from an owner before travelling to view then it's your problem that you're too far away. A narrowboat on ebay will have hundreds of watchers. Do you think a seller is going to send way too much information out to all those people without a clue who they are?

 

The time to start swapping important details is when a deal is on the table and pounds need to swap hands.

I would not buy a boat on eBay, I think that's lower end, and project boats, OK for those who want to spend months looking for a good bargain, assuming they know about narrowboats, have skills, tools etc, and are prepared to travel. And are prepared to accept a bit more risk.

 I  used a traditional site like Apollo Duck, knowing that I had a few essential requirements. My search criteria did not include the one I bought, it was pointed out by @Tumshie who no longer posts. 

As for important details, well I think it's a good idea to know someone's name and location, also the boats name and location. The vendor has included most things on the description which are on the Bill of Sale, so why should he not be willing to let you know his name address and phone number? It worked for me, saved me wasting  time and money. 

It seems you are setting out with the intention of negotiating , maybe getting a bargain, fair enough. I was setting out with the intention of buying a suitable boat in a particular timeframe.

Edited April 16, 2023 by LadyG

[BilgePump]

9 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I would not buy a boat on eBay, I think that's lower end, and project boats, OK for those who want to spend months looking for a good bargain, assuming they know about narrowboats, have skills, tools etc, and are prepared to travel.

 I  used a traditional site like Apollo Duck, knowing that I had a few essentials, my search criteria did not include the one I bought, it was pointed out by @Tumshie who no longer posts. 

Yes, there is a lot of chaff on ebay, but also some wheat. Just searching for 'narrowboat' throws up all sorts from massive projects to luxury living.

A private seller who is serious about selling their boat would probably be wise to pay for a listing on both AD and ebay (£20 for a month classified). Maximise the potential buyers who will see an ad.

Like you say, word of mouth and having more eyes on the lookout for possibly suitable craft always helps, just like members here have sold their boats to each other by letting it be known that it will be coming to market soon. I remember Tumsh, hope she's okay..

[Tonka]

15 minutes ago, BilgePump said:

Yes, there is a lot of chaff on ebay, but also some wheat. Just searching for 'narrowboat' throws up all sorts from massive projects to luxury living.

A private seller who is serious about selling their boat would probably be wise to pay for a listing on both AD and ebay (£20 for a month classified). Maximise the potential buyers who will see an ad.

Like you say, word of mouth and having more eyes on the lookout for possibly suitable craft always helps, just like members here have sold their boats to each other by letting it be known that it will be coming to market soon. I remember Tumsh, hope she's okay..

A serious seller would also take more then one photo. Currently on Apollo Duck there is a few with only one photo. 

[matty40s]

14 minutes ago, Tonka said:

A serious seller would also take more then one photo. Currently on Apollo Duck there is a few with only one photo. 

A lot of historic boats appear for sale with only one picture. I would think this is intentional on the part of the seller to weed out the chaff timewasters as a serious buyer would probably know the boat anyway.

Edited April 16, 2023 by matty40s