SOS for single boater

[nicknorman]

2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

They operate on both 406 Mhz and the old 'guard frequency' of 121.5Mhz (aircraft band)

 

121.5 is still used worldwide for the civilian distress frequency but is no longer monitored by all aircraft. 

With the EPIRBs and PLBs it is used for DF location of the casualty, whilct 406 is used for the satellite communication.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I didn't suggest that 121.5 was used by the satelites, I said :

 

 

 

 

No but you did say “That is why it is important to buy a UK registered PLB (frequencies are different) as there are often US ones on ebay”. Frequencies are not different.

Edited February 8, 2023 by nicknorman

[Alan de Enfield]

24 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

No but you did say “That is why it is important to buy a UK registered PLB (frequencies are different) as there are often US ones on ebay”. Frequencies are not different.

 

You are correct - I was trying to simplify things by using 'frequencies' I should have said "you cannot register a US PLB in the UK because they use a different prefix / format of the 15 digit Hexadecimal code so ensure your PLB is marked as suitable for UK registration"

 

My understanding is that each country has its own prefix series (similar to the internatinal phone dialling codes) so the satellites know where to 'send' the message.

 

Edited February 8, 2023 by Alan de Enfield

[Alan de Enfield]

5 hours ago, rusty69 said:

So, do they need registering to a person /address? And can they be re registered if you buy a second hand one? 

 

Here is an extract from the registration of one of my PLBs.

 

Bought secondhand, when transferred it shows the history of previous owners / boats it was registered to.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Another PLB is identified for 'Land Use' 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 8, 2023 by Alan de Enfield

[LadyG]

15 hours ago, David Mack said:

Cos its lawless up here in Happy Valley!

It's my brother, just  cos I forget to keep the phone active 24/7.

Thanks to all, I'll see what suits best.

 

15 hours ago, David Mack said:

Cos its lawless up here in Happy Valley!

It's my brother, just  cos I forget to keep my phone active 24/7.

Thanks to all, I'll see what suits best.

 

15 hours ago, David Mack said:

 

 

 

Edited February 9, 2023 by LadyG

[rusty69]

18 minutes ago, LadyG said:

It's my brother, just  cos I forget to keep the phone active 24/7.

Thanks to all, I'll see what suits best

A new brother perhaps? 

[magnetman]

What about a GPS tracker with a sim card in it and an emergency button? 

 

You can program it with 3 contact numbers to which it will send its location (assuming gps and cell network coverage). Also has two way voice 

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Carephone-SOS-Tracker-Button-Communication-Black/dp/B01MZ0MYZE

[rusty69]

14 minutes ago, magnetman said:

What about a GPS tracker with a sim card in it and an emergency button? 

 

You can program it with 3 contact numbers to which it will send its location (assuming gps and cell network coverage). Also has two way voice 

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Carephone-SOS-Tracker-Button-Communication-Black/dp/B01MZ0MYZE

That looks similar to the thing I linked to up thread 

Actually, not sure my one has gps

Edited February 9, 2023 by rusty69

[LadyG]

I think that a small clamshell phone on a different network to my other phone, maybe EE might help, my main phone looks too vulnerable and too big to carry all the time.

I used to have a clamshell, I think I have to buy a SIM, that connects to EE, and does not need any further payment.

As usual  the product details are all using acronyms and assume you know what they are.

Some have a quickdial to people you know. That's really not a lot of good.

One has an SOS button, but does not say if this is dialling 999.

It's no good phoning a friend or relation, it has to be emergency services, I usually know my postcode as I write it down every time I move.

I get the impression the GPS tracker is quite expensive.

Edited February 9, 2023 by LadyG

[pete.i]

16 hours ago, Graham Davis said:

I'm intrigued why LadyG thinks she needs such a thing.

None of your business.

[magnetman]

I -think- you can call 999 or 112 with a mobile phone with no SIM in it. 

 

Would need checking. 

36 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I think that a small clamshell phone on a different network to my other phone, maybe EE might help, my main phone looks too vulnerable and too big to carry all the time.

I used to have a clamshell, I think I have to buy a SIM, that connects to EE, and does not need any further payment.

As usual  the product details are all using acronyms and assume you know what they are.

Some have a quickdial to people you know. That's really not a lot of good.

One has an SOS button, but does not say if this is dialling 999.

It's no good phoning a friend or relation, it has to be emergency services, I usually know my postcode as I write it down every time I move.

I get the impression the GPS tracker is quite expensive.

The one on Amazon is £120. 

[rusty69]

6 minutes ago, magnetman said:

I -think- you can call 999 or 112 with a mobile phone with no SIM in it. 

 

Would need checking. 

The one on Amazon is £120. 

I think the phone needs a sim, though credit probably isn't required, neither is a signal on your own network if other network signal is available 

Edited February 9, 2023 by rusty69

[magnetman]

Don't get one of these 

 

3 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

I think the phone needs a, sim, though credit probably isn't required 

Interesting looking on Google about it as some say it works some say it doesn't. 

 

I had to use 999 the other night because of a vehicle fire nearby but I didn't think at the time of using one of my phone's without sim. 

 

It may be that this works in the US but not here. 

 

Anyway a SIM is free. I believe that even if you have no signal on your own network the phone is allowed to use other networks for emergency. 

[magnetman]

 

 

Another point which is technically interesting is whether one of the elderly people trackers would in fact send location to a 999 call handler. I think perhaps it wouldn't as they are probably not geared up to receive SMS. You can probably only program in other mobile phone numbers so a direct contact with 999 sending location may not be possible. 

 

It is quite interesting. Perhaps the locator beacon mentioned above is a far superior option. 

 

 

[rusty69]

12 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Don't get one of these 

 

Interesting looking on Google about it as some say it works some say it doesn't. 

 

I had to use 999 the other night because of a vehicle fire nearby but I didn't think at the time of using one of my phone's without sim. 

 

It may be that this works in the US but not here. 

 

Anyway a SIM is free. I believe that even if you have no signal on your own network the phone is allowed to use other networks for emergency. 

I have Mrs Rs number set up on my phone as an emergency contact on the lock screen. I assume someone finding the phone, or even myself can ring 999 without unlocking it. 

 

The problem with smart phones is that they are a bugger to use with wet hands. I always take a cheap dumb phone when out kayaking. 

 

I seem to recall on some apple phones the physical button could be set up to make an emergency call. That seems like a good solution if it can be made not to make false calls. 

5 minutes ago, magnetman said:

 

 

Another point which is technically interesting is whether one of the elderly people trackers would in fact send location to a 999 call handler. I think perhaps it wouldn't as they are probably not geared up to receive SMS. You can probably only program in other mobile phone numbers so a direct contact with 999 sending location may not be possible. 

 

It is quite interesting. Perhaps the locator beacon mentioned above is a far superior option. 

 

 

The PLB has to be the best solution, if you remember to make it personal each time you go somewhere 

Edited February 9, 2023 by rusty69

[magnetman]

Another thing if you are in range of an AIS service such as Marine Traffic you could carry a net buoy AIS beacon. Switch it on if you need it then call 999 and mention you are the net buoy called X and your general location. They are very accurate. 

 

There may be a licensing problem with this solution but at the end of the day if you get into trouble rapidly giving out your location (which may be moving if you are on water) is more important than whether you are using a technically illegal product. 

 

 

McMurdo emergency AIS £500

 

Net buoy AIS beacon £80...

 

I have one. They do work and are very accurate. 

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/265928474668

 

Seller will program your details including a phone number into the transmitted data. 

 

 

(ETA I just checked and the UK seller is no longer doing these so perhaps more awkward to get it programmed. I bought mine from a radio bloke in Essex via eBay). 

 

 

Disclaimer: these are not authorised for use on the AIS system. I think as a line of defence in the event of serious accident it  may be worth carrying one. 

Edited February 9, 2023 by magnetman

[1st ade]

24 minutes ago, magnetman said:

I-think- you can call 999 or 112 with a mobile phone with no SIM in it. 

No - you can call with a SIM with no credit, or on a different network but NOT with no SIM at all

[Alan de Enfield]

19 minutes ago, 1st ade said:

No - you can call with a SIM with no credit, or on a different network but NOT with no SIM at all

 

And once you call 999 from a mobile (all mobiles in the UK have the capability) the phone sends a text to the operator with your location.

 

1.16 In this approach, when the handset detects that an emergency call is being initiated, it uses satellite navigation and other location capabilities (such as Wi-Fi hotspot identification), if available, to ascertain its position. It then sends an emergency SMS (“eSMS”) with this information, along with an identifier of the call so that a correlation can be made between the call and the associated location information.

1.17 The emergency service operator will therefore normally receive the emergency call along with the usual network-provided location information (Cell-ID) and, while the call is in progress, updated location information will be made available to the emergency operator

 

 

 

Calling 999 from a smartphone

If you need to make a call to the emergency services (999 in the UK) on an Android or iPhone device, there are ways to automatically send your GPS location to the emergency services at the same time.

 

Calling 999 from an Android

If you need to call the emergency services (999) from an Android device, Google automatically provides your GPS location.

 

Calling 999 from an iPhone

To send your GPS location to the emergency services on an iPhone device, your device will need to be operating on IOS 11 or above. On IOS 11 and above there is a feature called 'Emergency SOS'.

The Emergency SOS feature uses your iPhone to alert an emergency service with a text message showing your exact location, with real-time updates that track your movements.

Here's how to use it:

 

On iPhone X, iPhone 8, or iPhone 8 Plus:

1. Press and hold the side button and one of the volume buttons until the Emergency SOS slider appears.

2. Drag the Emergency SOS slider to call emergency services. If you continue to hold down the side button and Volume button, instead of dragging the slider, a countdown begins and an alert sounds.

3. If you hold down the buttons until the countdown ends, your iPhone automatically calls emergency services without needing to drag the slider.

 

On iPhone 7 or earlier: 

1. Rapidly press the side button five times. The Emergency SOS slider will appear.

2. Drag the Emergency SOS slider to call emergency services.

3. If you started an emergency call by accident, press the Stop button, then tap Stop Calling.

After the call ends, your iPhone will ping the emergency service with your current location, unless you choose to cancel. If Location Services is off, it will temporarily turn on. If your location changes, your contacts will get an update, and you'll get a notification about 10 minutes later.

To stop the updates, tap the status bar and select "Stop Sharing Emergency Location." If you keep sharing, you'll get a reminder to stop every 4 hours for 24 hours.

 

Edited February 9, 2023 by Alan de Enfield

[1st ade]

2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

And once you call 999 from a mobile (all mobiles in the UK have the capability) the phone sends a text to the operator with your location.

 

1.16 In this approach, when the handset detects that an emergency call is being initiated, it uses satellite navigation and other location capabilities (such as Wi-Fi hotspot identification), if available, to ascertain its position. It then sends an emergency SMS (“eSMS”) with this information, along with an identifier of the call so that a correlation can be made between the call and the associated location information.

1.17 The emergency service operator will therefore normally receive the emergency call along with the usual network-provided location information (Cell-ID) and, while the call is in progress, updated location information will be made available to the emergency operator

Don't get me started on the number of Blue Light operators that then start a "Do you have What-3-Words" type discussion - If it wasn't an emergency, I'd scream down the phone at them "look at your console"...

[LadyG]

17 hours ago, rusty69 said:

My mum has one of those. The service is really good, but the pendant thing is only short range and connects to a landline base station.

I think they are linked to a landline.

17 hours ago, rusty69 said:

My mum has one of those. The service is really good, but the pendant thing is only short range and connects to a landline base station.

I think they are linked to a landline, so no use to boaters.

[rusty69]

5 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I think they are linked to a landline.

I think they are linked to a landline, so no use to boaters.

Dats what I said 

[ditchcrawler]

Interesting it says the land based one is UK and World wide. so if you were in the Alps and had a problem it would contact the UK, I take it likewise if an American boat had problems in the English Chanel it would contact the US coast Guard  

[1st ade]

5 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Interesting it says the land based one is UK and World wide. so if you were in the Alps and had a problem it would contact the UK, I take it likewise if an American boat had problems in the English Chanel it would contact the US coast Guard  

Yes - but as the location is known and all the (Maritime) Emergency Services talk to each other, it works OK...

[ditchcrawler]

2 minutes ago, 1st ade said:

Yes - but as the location is known and all the (Maritime) Emergency Services talk to each other, it works OK...

So why cant you use an American one in the UK?

[Alan de Enfield]

20 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Interesting it says the land based one is UK and World wide. so if you were in the Alps and had a problem it would contact the UK, I take it likewise if an American boat had problems in the English Chanel it would contact the US coast Guard  

 

Indeed, as I said in an earlier post - If I am walking in Australia, fall down a ravine and break my leg, whn I press the button, the Falmouth SAR centre is informed of my location. They then contact the nearest SAR centre to my location who then 'call in the helicopters'.

 

It is (almost) instant - the world is a very small place these days.

 

 

13 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

So why cant you use an American one in the UK?

 

Because the law requires it to be registered in your home country. You cannot register an American one in the UK because their Hexadecimal system is different to the UK, or Europe, or Canada etc etc

[David Mack]

17 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

So why cant you use an American one in the UK?

While they can make international calls to connect you to the nearest emergency service wherever you are, its a damn site more efficient to work with the local services they are more familiar with.