Boat dwellers to be able to claim the £400 energy allowance.

[MtB]

9 minutes ago, IanD said:

I never thought I'd say this...

 

Well done the NBTA for doing something which is genuinely to the benefit of *all* boaters 🙂

 

Seconded by me.

 

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

19 minutes ago, IanD said:

I never thought I'd say this...

 

Well done the NBTA for doing something which is genuinely to the benefit of *all* boaters 🙂

 

But didn't the 19th December announcement cover "HOUSEBOATS" ?

I'm sure that the NBTA had 'intensive discussions', but the spin on THEIR announcement implies that it will be for all (?) boaters.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

37 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

But didn't the 19th December announcement cover "HOUSEBOATS" ?

I'm sure that the NBTA had 'intensive discussions', but the spin on THEIR announcement implies that it will be for all (?) boaters.

not all boaters,

but all full time ‘live aboard’ boaters,

and it’s particularly pointed to those without a fixed address. 
 

That’s my take on it. 
There have been additional emails sent out to NBTA members and supporters and the above statement is a snippet from a longer and more informative email. 

Edited December 22, 2022 by Goliath

[Alan de Enfield]

23 minutes ago, Goliath said:

not all boaters,

but all full time ‘live aboard’ boaters,

and it’s particularly pointed to those without a fixed address. 
 

That’s my take on it. 
There have been additional emails sent out to NBTA members and supporters and the above statement is a snippet from a longer and more informative email. 

 

My point was tho', that is not what the Government has announced -their is a dicotomy between the Government statement and the NBTA statement. The Government appear to  have simply announced a list of those 'likely eligible' (including 'Houseboats') and clearly lacks any suggestion of those 'without a fixed address'.

 

 

Online applications will open in January for households in England, Scotland and Wales who are eligible for the £400 EBSS Alternative Funding to submit their details, alongside a helpline for those without online access. Payments to households that meet the eligibility criteria – including people who get their energy through a commercial contract or who are off-grid – will be made by local authorities in Great Britain. This is likely to include:

• care home residents
• residents of park homes
• tenants in certain private and social rented homes
• homes supplied via private wires
• residents of caravans and houseboats on registered sites
• farmers living in domestic farmhouses
• off-grid households

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

15 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

off-grid households

yes,

and the push from the NBTA and others was to get live aboard boaters included within that group, ‘off-grid households’. 
and I understand they have succeeded

 

we just need to wait and see how easy it is to make a claim and whether the claim is accepted. 
 

that’s how I understand it all at the moment, and until I see the online forms I don’t know if I’ll be eligible to claim for £400 or whether it’s the £200 for alternative fuel 🤷‍♀️
 

I’ll read back through the information. 
Willing to stand corrected if I’m wrong, (usually am)

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

The other thing that needs to be said, if it hasn’t been clarified already,

applications are made online via www.gov.uk who process the claim, and then instruct the local authority to make the payment in to the claimants bank. 
 

[Alan de Enfield]

24 minutes ago, Goliath said:

yes,

and the push from the NBTA and others was to get live aboard boaters included within that group, ‘off-grid households’. 
and I understand they have succeeded

 

we just need to wait and see how easy it is to make a claim and whether the claim is accepted. 
 

that’s how I understand it all at the moment, and until I see the online forms I don’t know if I’ll be eligible to claim for £400 or whether it’s the £200 for alternative fuel 🤷‍♀️
 

I’ll read back through the information. 
Willing to stand corrected if I’m wrong, (usually am)

 

I've no doubt that there was a push from all organisations was to get their 'group' included - But - the NBTA announcement specifically refers us to the Government statement of the 19th December (which states only 'houseboats on registered siyes') Had NBTA been successful in getting 'all boaters' included you'd have thought it would gave said 'boaters' in lieu of 'houseboaters' and no menttion of only on 'registered sites'.

 

As you say, we will see ................................

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

16 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I've no doubt that there was a push from all organisations was to get their 'group' included - But - the NBTA announcement specifically refers us to the Government statement of the 19th December (which states only 'houseboats on registered siyes') Had NBTA been successful in getting 'all boaters' included you'd have thought it would gave said 'boaters' in lieu of 'houseboaters' and no menttion of only on 'registered sites'.

 

As you say, we will see ................................

But the NBTA have never said all boaters and haven’t made that claim, or am I miss reading it ?
 

It was another poster who mentioned ‘all boaters’. 😃

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, Goliath said:

But the NBTA have never said all boaters and haven’t made that claim, or am I miss reading it ?

 

The discussion is about liveaboards and that is the group I was referring to when I said 'all boaters' Obvioulsy 'weekend / holiday boaters would not be considered  :

 

 

1 hour ago, Goliath said:

........... all full time ‘live aboard’ boaters,

 

How do you identify 'liveaboard boaters' unless on registered residential moorings ?

[IanD]

24 minutes ago, Goliath said:

But the NBTA have never said all boaters and haven’t made that claim, or am I miss reading it ?
 

It was another poster who mentioned ‘all boaters’. 😃

 

What I meant was "not just the CMers on the K&A who the NBTA seems to spend most of its time being an advocate for, against the interests of most boaters who follow the rules". Is that better?

Edited December 22, 2022 by IanD

[Arthur Marshall]

29 minutes ago, IanD said:

What I meant was "not just the CMers on the K&A who the NBTA seems to spend most of its time being an advocate for, against the interests of most boaters who follow the rules". Is that better?

They coincide for once, sort of. Except you always get back to this problem of identifying genuine liveaboard boaters, some illegally occupying leisure moorings and some just not moving and separating them from those who claim to be CC but live in houses?

I strongly suspect that the data will give rise to a lot of grief among those who have gamed the system successfully for years, especially as hard-up councils will suddenly learn how many people are dossing on their patches, acting as residents but paying no CT.

 

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

48 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

The discussion is about liveaboards and that is the group I was referring to when I said 'all boaters' Obvioulsy 'weekend / holiday boaters would not be considered  :

 

 

 

How do you identify 'liveaboard boaters' unless on registered residential moorings ?

were going in circles here

 

I am a live aboard boater without a residential mooring and I consider myself an itinerant. I identify with this group. 
I am a live aboard without a home mooring. 
And it is this group of boaters, the itinerants, that the NBTA has specifically pushed to be include within the off grid house holds. 

How the government will identify who are live aboards I do not know, until I see the forms. 
 

 

 

4 minutes ago, Goliath said:

were going in circles here

 

I am a live aboard boater without a residential mooringand I consider myself an itinerant. 
I am a live aboard without a home mooring. 
And it is this group of boaters, the itinerants, that the NBTA has specifically pushed to be include within the off grid house holds. 

 

 

47 minutes ago, IanD said:

What I meant was "not just the CMers on the K&A who the NBTA seems to spend most of its time being an advocate for, against the interests of most boaters who follow the rules". Is that better?

Not really Ian, let’s not turn this thread into an argument over the NBTA based on the little you have experienced of them. 

Edited December 22, 2022 by Goliath

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

11 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

They coincide for once, sort of. Except you always get back to this problem of identifying genuine liveaboard boaters, some illegally occupying leisure moorings and some just not moving and separating them from those who claim to be CC but live in houses?

I strongly suspect that the data will give rise to a lot of grief among those who have gamed the system successfully for years, especially as hard-up councils will suddenly learn how many people are dossing on their patches, acting as residents but paying no CT.

 

Terms like Continuous cruiser or continous cruising have little to do with the definition of a live aboard. 
and I doubt very much it’s a phrase the government are aware off

[IanD]

16 minutes ago, Goliath said:

were going in circles here

 

I am a live aboard boater without a residential mooring and I consider myself an itinerant. I identify with this group. 
I am a live aboard without a home mooring. 
And it is this group of boaters, the itinerants, that the NBTA has specifically pushed to be include within the off grid house holds. 

How the government will identify who are live aboards I do not know, until I see the forms. 
 

 

 

 

 

Not really Ian, let’s not turn this thread into an argument over the NBTA based on the little you have experienced of them. 

Which is why I tried to give them credit for it, with no qualifications. You're the one who tried to snipe at what I said, so you can blame yourself for this issue coming up yet again... 😉

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

1 minute ago, IanD said:

Which is why I tried to give them credit for it, with no qualifications. You're the one who tried to snipe at what I said, so you can blame yourself for this issue coming up yet again... 😉

I reckon you’d make an argument with yourself in an empty room. 

 

It’s all been quite pleasant til now. 
 

I can’t believe you’ve poked with the shit stick and blamed me. 
 

 

[IanD]

Just now, Goliath said:

I reckon you’d make an argument with yourself in an empty room. 

 

It’s all been quite pleasant til now. 
 

I can’t believe you’ve poked with the shit stick and blamed me. 
 

 

"It was another poster who mentioned "all boaters" -- your exact words.

 

So I clarified it for you. And then you came back and objected. And here we are again...

 

Who's having an argument about nothing and who poked the shit then?

 

If you had resisted the temptation to have a snide little dig, my post would have stayed as a genuine complement to the NBTA.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

Yes, because it was you who said all boaters, and it wasn’t said as a snipe, it was a clarification of fact to identify where this idea of all boaters came from.

 

 

and then you started with the digs, 

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

1 hour ago, IanD said:

What I meant was "not just the CMers on the K&A who the NBTA seems to spend most of its time being an advocate for, against the interests of most boaters who follow the rules". Is that better?

that is what you said and there was no need to introduce those sentiments to this otherwise quite pleasant discussion 

 

what would have been better would have been for you to say, “ oh, yes, my mistake I misread what they wrote”

but no you’d never say your wrong would you?

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, Goliath said:

were going in circles here

 

I am a live aboard boater without a residential mooring and I consider myself an itinerant. 
I am a live aboard without a home mooring. 
And it is this group of boaters, the itinerants, that the NBTA has specifically pushed to be include within the off grid house holds. 

 

 

I don't doubt that the NBTA have 'pushed' for you and the others to be included - the point I'm making, is that the Governments announcement (that the NBTA reference) makes no mention to any boaters that are NOT " houseboats on registered moorings" indicating that however much the NBTA 'pushed', the Government appear to have no taken notice. (unless there is more detail not published)

 

There is a dicotomy between what you are saying the NBTA 

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

38 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

I don't doubt that the NBTA have 'pushed' for you and the others to be included - the point I'm making, is that the Governments announcement (that the NBTA reference) makes no mention to any boaters that are NOT " houseboats on registered moorings" indicating that however much the NBTA 'pushed', the Government appear to have no taken notice. (unless there is more detail not published)

 

There is a dicotomy between what you are saying the NBTA 

I can’t even find a mention of ‘houseboats on registered moorings’ in the government announcement that I’ve read.

 

Where as the NBTA state;

 

“Both the NBTA and Friends, Families and Travellers (FFT) have had intensive discussions with the Department of Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (BEIS) to ensure that all off-grid households, including itinerant boat, caravan and vehicle dwellers without a fixed address, will be included.”

 

“The NBTA encourages everyone who lives on a boat without a permanent mooring or a fixed address to apply to the scheme once it goes live.”

 

 

 

Edited December 22, 2022 by Goliath

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, Goliath said:

I can’t even find a mention of ‘houseboats on registered moorings’ in the government announcement that I’ve read.

 

The Government 19th December statement (as referenced by NBTA) in full :

 

Vital help with energy bills on the way for millions more homes across Great Britain and Northern Ireland - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

 

About half way down the page is the statement about those eligible ................

 

 

• care home residents
• residents of park homes
• tenants in certain private and social rented homes
• homes supplied via private wires
• residents of caravans and houseboats on registered sites
• farmers living in domestic farmhouses
• off-grid households

[TheBiscuits]

 https://www.gov.uk/government/news/vital-help-with-energy-bills-on-the-way-for-millions-more-homes-across-great-britain-and-northern-ireland

 

 

Energy Bills Support Scheme Alternative Funding (EBSS AF)

The GOV.UK page launching in January 2023 will include an overview of eligibility and what applicants need to do to apply for energy bills support under the EBSS alternative funding scheme.

 

Subject to applications meeting the eligibility criteria, people who will be able to receive support under the EBSS AF delivered by local authorities, include:

 

care home residents and others in care facilities/sheltered accommodation (wholly or partly self-funded)

 

park home residents, houseboats and caravans that can provide proof of address

 

social and private tenants who pay for energy through a landlord on a commercial supply

 

travellers

 

homes on a heat network/private wire

 

off-grid homes

 

farmhouses used for wholly domestic purposes

 

 

Edited December 22, 2022 by TheBiscuits
clarity

[Alan de Enfield]

 

 

 

So, again it looks to be a little different to that reported by the NBTA.

 

10 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

park home residents, houseboats and caravans that can provide proof of address

 

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

17 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 https://www.gov.uk/government/news/vital-help-with-energy-bills-on-the-way-for-millions-more-homes-across-great-britain-and-northern-ireland

 

 

Energy Bills Support Scheme Alternative Funding (EBSS AF)

The GOV.UK page launching in January 2023 will include an overview of eligibility and what applicants need to do to apply for energy bills support under the EBSS alternative funding scheme.

 

Subject to applications meeting the eligibility criteria, people who will be able to receive support under the EBSS AF delivered by local authorities, include:

 

care home residents and others in care facilities/sheltered accommodation (wholly or partly self-funded)

 

park home residents, houseboats and caravans that can provide proof of address

 

social and private tenants who pay for energy through a landlord on a commercial supply

 

travellers

 

homes on a heat network/private wire

 

off-grid homes

 

farmhouses used for wholly domestic purposes

 

 

I’d reckon I’m a traveller living in an off grid home

so fit in to two categories 

 

 

 

.......can I claim twice 🤓

[Momac]

22 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 ........ private tenants who pay for energy through a landlord on a commercial supply

 

That describes the arrangement for a boat in a marina