Boat dwellers to be able to claim the £400 energy allowance.

[Jerra]

6 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Yes, but it is the result of sloppy semantics by the politicians who promised it to all "off grid" households, thinking "off grid" meant off the gas grid and running on oil.

 

Even so, despite recent price shocks oil remains the cheapest fuel per kWr of all by far, save for wood and coal. 

Beware pedant and devil's advocate mode is on.

 

The government could have argued that travellers/boaters weren't eligible.

 

household

noun

1. a house and its occupants regarded as a unit.

[Arthur Marshall]

2 hours ago, LadyG said:

The original payment was to be paid via the CT and would be provided via the LA software, the CT bill being reduced and the LA claiming back from the UK Govt 

They realised that 900000 were being excluded so have had to set up an online application.That is my understanding of this update 

 

The application is online or via a telephone helpline (good luch getting through!), but the payments are still being made via the LA. I'm sure the government have thought it all through thoroughly.

[Alway Swilby]

36 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

The bit that puzzles me is why any of these need the £400. It is to help compensate people on mains gas and main electricity for the tripling of mains gas and electricty surely. A cost off-gridders have broadly avoided. 

 

The 'average householder' on mains gas and leccy has seen their annual fuel bill rise from £1200 to £3600. I've not seen any equivalent tripling for boaters. 

 

Jus' saying! 

Marina dwellers have possibly had big electricity price rises because the marina has passed on their own increases. The end users don't have a contract with an electricity company therefore don't get the £400 off their bill.

CCers have had big increases in diesel and lpg gas prices.

You are correct though that true off gridders have been less affected.

 

[LadyG]

43 minutes ago, Alway Swilby said:

Marina dwellers have possibly had big electricity price rises because the marina has passed on their own increases. The end users don't have a contract with an electricity company therefore don't get the £400 off their bill.

CCers have had big increases in diesel and lpg gas prices.

You are correct though that true off gridders have been less affected.

 

Diesel which generates electricity has nearly doubled and fuel for solid fuel stove up fifty percent. The payments are not exclusively for boaters, so payments are being broadcast rather than targeted at individuals. It's swings and roundabouts, just so happens the true off gridder with a solid fuel has had an easier time than others. Those with diesel heating will be paying relatively more.

Edited December 19, 2022 by LadyG

[haggis]

40 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Diesel which generates electricity has nearly doubled and fuel for solid fuel stove up fifty percent. The payments are not exclusively for boaters, so payments are being broadcast rather than targeted at individuals. It's swings and roundabouts, just so happens the true off gridder with a solid fuel has had an easier time than others. Those with diesel heating will be paying relatively more.

But they will not be paying thousands more as house dwellers are. 

[LadyG]

For those who consider the government don't know how to run the country, including  a fair and equable  distribution of cost of living payments, they can re distribute their own income via charitable donations. People are in distress, no home to call their own, animals are neglected, kids don't even have beds to sleep in. There are plenty of needy causes.

[LadyG]

27 minutes ago, haggis said:

But they will not be paying thousands more as house dwellers are. 

No, mostly because boaters  are living in tiny homes. House dwellers could cut their bills if they all moved in to one room.

Edited December 19, 2022 by LadyG

[LadyG]

2 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

 I'm sure the government have thought it all through thoroughly.

Really? 

Edited December 19, 2022 by LadyG

[MtB]

1 hour ago, LadyG said:

Diesel which generates electricity has nearly doubled and fuel for solid fuel stove up fifty percent. The payments are not exclusively for boaters, so payments are being broadcast rather than targeted at individuals. It's swings and roundabouts, just so happens the true off gridder with a solid fuel has had an easier time than others. Those with diesel heating will be paying relatively more.

 

More of that special, unique LadyG maths, I see!

 

😅

[Nightwatch]

What about those that live aboard their boat permanent but have a C/o address fir mail and other stuff. In all sense and purposes they live at the c/o address.

[Paul C]

I believe there is a requirement to register a houseboat with CRT. So its simple, CRT will have a list.....

 

Also, you can't assume a CCer lives on the boat - plenty don't, they just don't have a mooring and shuffle the boat round every now and then.

[Lady M]

From CRT website

 

What's a houseboat certificate?

Houseboat certificates are only issued for boats where the houseboat certificate and the mooring agreement run at the same time and have the same expiry date.

Houseboat means a boat not mainly used for navigation and which has planning permission for the site where it is moored, if needed.

Houseboat certificates are generally linked to a particular waterside moorings long term mooring permit and carry with them a limited right of assignment of the mooring permit.

[nbfiresprite]

 

From the press release https://www.gov.uk/government/news/vital-help-with-energy-bills-on-the-way-for-millions-more-homes-across-great-britain-and-northern-ireland

 

Seems that only boaters with legal moorings will get the rebate. That get the NBTA ranting and waving their signs. 

Online applications will open in January for households in England, Scotland and Wales who are eligible for the £400 EBSS Alternative Funding to submit their details, alongside a helpline for those without online access. Payments to households that meet the eligibility criteria – including people who get their energy through a commercial contract or who are off-grid – will be made by local authorities in Great Britain. This is likely to include:

• care home residents
• residents of park homes
• tenants in certain private and social rented homes
• homes supplied via private wires
• residents of caravans and houseboats on registered sites
• farmers living in domestic farmhouses
• off-grid households

Edited December 20, 2022 by nbfiresprite

[nbfiresprite]

8 hours ago, Alway Swilby said:

Marina dwellers have possibly had big electricity price rises because the marina has passed on their own increases. The end users don't have a contract with an electricity company therefore don't get the £400 off their bill.

CCers have had big increases in diesel and lpg gas prices.

You are correct though that true off gridders have been less affected.

 

The marina bill is not capped, some marinas are now charging their moorers as much as 66p per unit plus vat @ 20%. Many houses in rural areas are not connected to the national grid. I don't just mean remote places in Wales and Scotland, even here in the Fens there are houses which don't have mains power so have to produce their own power. 

[doratheexplorer]

16 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

CCers should be Ok as they're covered by the law.  

 

Unofficial liveaboards on non-residential moorings might not want £400 enough to tell the local authority where they actually live ...

I'm not sure about that.  Being a CCer is one thing, proving it to a government is another.  Most CCers use friends or family addresses for post.  I imagine the assumption will be that they live there, and payment will be withheld.

[LadyG]

17 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

I'm not sure about that.  Being a CCer is one thing, proving it to a government is another.  Most CCers use friends or family addresses for post.  I imagine the assumption will be that they live there, and payment will be withheld.

I think this has to be tested.

 

Some people will use non residential addresses, for example those who might use a solicitors address for various reasons, this would be non residential, but still a valid address. Others who use a boat mailing address, can show this is not the boaters residential address even if it is a residential address.

I think the only thing I can do is to apply, evidencing my CRT licence which is a ,c/o.

I think it is pretty shaky proof, but the only other thing I can do is to register to vote in a location where I have an interest, further evidence of not being resident at the postal address.

Edited December 20, 2022 by LadyG

[Jerra]

11 hours ago, Nightwatch said:

What about those that live aboard their boat permanent but have a C/o address fir mail and other stuff. In all sense and purposes they live at the c/o address.

Surely if an address has c/0 in front of it this shows the person doesn't live there.  C/o is an abbreviation of "care of" there would be no need for care if the person lived there.

[IanD]

7 hours ago, nbfiresprite said:

 

From the press release https://www.gov.uk/government/news/vital-help-with-energy-bills-on-the-way-for-millions-more-homes-across-great-britain-and-northern-ireland

 

Seems that only boaters with legal moorings will get the rebate. That get the NBTA ranting and waving their signs. 

Online applications will open in January for households in England, Scotland and Wales who are eligible for the £400 EBSS Alternative Funding to submit their details, alongside a helpline for those without online access. Payments to households that meet the eligibility criteria – including people who get their energy through a commercial contract or who are off-grid – will be made by local authorities in Great Britain. This is likely to include:

• care home residents
• residents of park homes
• tenants in certain private and social rented homes
• homes supplied via private wires
• residents of caravans and houseboats on registered sites
• farmers living in domestic farmhouses
• off-grid households

 

The devil is in the details -- it doesn't say "boats with a registered mooring", it says "houseboats on registered sites". Which presumably means very few boaters, certainly not CCers or Cers, and not even non-houseboats with a home mooring... 😞

 

13 hours ago, Lady C said:

From CRT website

 

What's a houseboat certificate?

Houseboat certificates are only issued for boats where the houseboat certificate and the mooring agreement run at the same time and have the same expiry date.

Houseboat means a boat not mainly used for navigation and which has planning permission for the site where it is moored, if needed.

Houseboat certificates are generally linked to a particular waterside moorings long term mooring permit and carry with them a limited right of assignment of the mooring permit.

 

[LadyG]

1 hour ago, Jerra said:

Surely if an address has c/0 in front of it this shows the person doesn't live there.  C/o is an abbreviation of "care of" there would be no need for care if the person lived there.

Note, that some software won't accept c/o, 

[Jerra]

1 minute ago, LadyG said:

Note, that some software won't accept c/o, 

Very possibly because they want an address where the person is rather than say a "pick up point" in a local shop, when the person could actually live anywhere.

[Lady M]

My underlying thought is that either the government don't want to recognise boat dwellers who do not fit the houseboat certificate criterion or else they simply don't understand.    

[Ewan123]

There was a chap on Facebook who was part of an online meeting with the people working out the details of how these grants can be delivered to liveaboard CCers with no home mooring. It actually sounded promising - the main requirement was to have a receipt of >£100 for fuel (coal/logs/diesel etc.) which also had the purchasers address on - the key point raised (and  accepted) was that CCers won't might not have a home address. Apparently a correspondence address would be acceptable so long as it matched the address associated with the person's bank account, into which the grants would be paid.

 

Grants plural btw as I think this was referring to both the £400 and the Alternative Fuel Payment of £200 (recently upped from £100).

Edited December 20, 2022 by Ewan123
corrected wording

[Momac]

11 minutes ago, Ewan123 said:

- the key point raised (and  accepted) was that CCers won't have a home address. 

As said previously that's not necessarily correct. 

 

Edited December 20, 2022 by MartynG

[Arthur Marshall]

Really lucky for all the dumpers, though. They'll get to claim the money for the house they actually live in, and an extra dollop for the boat they pretend to be continuously cruising in! Win win!

[Lady M]

Perhaps not if the person's name and address exactly match those for the house but I agree it appears open to misuse.  This approach should suit boatowners with a proper residential mooring.