Boat dwellers to be able to claim the £400 energy allowance.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

You don’t need to justify not paying Council Tax to anyone,

you’re simply not eligible to pay 

 👍

 

 

 

 

 

[Jerra]

6 hours ago, LadyG said:

A bit tricky either to administer, or to justify.

I pay CRT for water supplied, and for sewage disposal among other things.

I move about, so I can't be charged any sort of Council Tax.

 

You can't at the moment be charged council task but where there's a will there's a way, I am sure they could legislate to do so if they wished.  Sewage and water supply are the responsibility of the companies council tax pays (or partly pays)  for such trivia as police pavements, street cleaning, street lighting etc.

[Jerra]

41 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I'm buying food locally, had a super pub lunch today, contributing in that way. Just spending cash locally helps everyone. There is only so much discretionary spend, if I had to pay for mooring, I'd cut back on eating out, and butcher meat etc. 

And then I'd probably sell up.

I can still remember having to pay for moorings in Rothesay Bay.  I never went back. So for the sake of a fiver, paid to one local, the town lost out on maybe fifty pounds spent every Friday night from April to September.

However the council didn't get any of the £50 over and above what they would have got if you hadn't visited.

 

I buy locally but it doesn't absolve me from paying counciltax as you seem to be suggesting.  Following your logic nobody need pay council tax.

[Paul C]

1 hour ago, Goliath said:

You don’t need to justify not paying Council Tax to anyone,

you’re simply not eligible to pay 

 👍

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why be eligible to receive a £400 energy allowance yet remain not required to pay CT? It makes a lot of sense to link the two together (administratively). In fact, I think it would be difficult to convince all except the actual boaters who would receive it, that some kind of link isn't necessary.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

57 minutes ago, Paul C said:

 

Why be eligible to receive a £400 energy allowance yet remain not required to pay CT? It makes a lot of sense to link the two together (administratively). In fact, I think it would be difficult to convince all except the actual boaters who would receive it, that some kind of link isn't necessary.

we’ve somehow got a mix up between paying energy bills and council tax?

 

whist the Local Authorities will be issuing the payment, the payment isn’t coming out of the council tax direct as such.

if I understand correctly the government are giving authorities extra money to make the payments? but I’ll stand to be corrected

 

by your logic would it mean students who pay no council tax should not receive a payment ? or those on benefits, or single occupants, the elderly and so on should have a reduced energy payment?

 

I don’t know how this energy payment can be made without giving a ‘blanket’ payment to every home.
There will be lots of people who don’t need it, there’ll be some who make a profit out of it I’m sure.

It’s all a political game really, isn’t it? 
£400 is shush money, it’s nothing but buying our compliance when we should be out there fighting a revolution. ✊

the energy companies will carry on making their pound and the population will continue to meekly say sweet Fanny Adam’s.  
 

(Let’s not forget about prisoners, perhaps the biggest beneficiaries of council tax money, they pay nothing.)

 

 

Edited December 20, 2022 by Goliath

[Paul C]

Its not a mix up, its a way to identify households which spans wider than simply those "on grid" with connected gas/electric and directly paying those bills.

 

AFAIK Students do pay council tax, there is no exemption.

 

Regarding reduced payment for those who have a CT reduction, that's not really logical. CT is being used to define/identify/verify the households, not to pro-rata the payment.

[Tracy D'arth]

Could the payment be made to the NHS doctor that the boater is registered with?

[Ianws]

3 hours ago, Paul C said:

Its not a mix up, its a way to identify households which spans wider than simply those "on grid" with connected gas/electric and directly paying those bills.

 

AFAIK Students do pay council tax, there is no exemption.

 

Regarding reduced payment for those who have a CT reduction, that's not really logical. CT is being used to define/identify/verify the households, not to pro-rata the payment.

Households where everyone is a student don't pay council tax. 

[doratheexplorer]

10 hours ago, Goliath said:

we’ve somehow got a mix up between paying energy bills and council tax?

 

whist the Local Authorities will be issuing the payment, the payment isn’t coming out of the council tax direct as such.

if I understand correctly the government are giving authorities extra money to make the payments? but I’ll stand to be corrected

 

by your logic would it mean students who pay no council tax should not receive a payment ? or those on benefits, or single occupants, the elderly and so on should have a reduced energy payment?

 

I don’t know how this energy payment can be made without giving a ‘blanket’ payment to every home.
There will be lots of people who don’t need it, there’ll be some who make a profit out of it I’m sure.

It’s all a political game really, isn’t it? 
£400 is shush money, it’s nothing but buying our compliance when we should be out there fighting a revolution. ✊

the energy companies will carry on making their pound and the population will continue to meekly say sweet Fanny Adam’s.  
 

(Let’s not forget about prisoners, perhaps the biggest beneficiaries of council tax money, they pay nothing.)

 

 

There's a way round that.  Just apply the £400 to all homes which are rated for Council Tax.  Although that might disproportionately help second home owners?  Although, they might be getting the £400 payment for their second home anyway?  Anyone know?

 

[Lady M]

Returning to the houseboat/'official' residential moorer aspect for a moment, I am under the impression that people who live in leisure caravans for 11 months of the year are probably treated differently from boat liveaboards holding a cruising licence.  Would these caravan dwellers pay Council Tax?  

[nbfiresprite]

They do in Fenland, it very much depends on the local council.

[Alan de Enfield]

12 minutes ago, Lady C said:

Would these caravan dwellers pay Council Tax?  

 

No.

 

We own a static caravan park and to be classed as leisure use (no council tax) we have to close the site for one month per year - we still need planning permission for the site and we decide when the site will be closed. To comply with the leisure condition the electricity and water must be turned off for that month and, owners are only allowed on site for maintenance.

 

 

Edited December 21, 2022 by Alan de Enfield

[MtB]

5 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

No.

 

We own a static caravan park and to be classed as leisure use (no council tax) we have to close the site for one month per year - we still need planning permission for the site and we decide when the site will be closed. To comply with the leisure condition the electricity and water must be turned off for that month and, owners are only allowed on site for maintenance.

 

 

 

Imagine the uproar if similar conditions were applied to the canal system. Or if opposed, all boats were to pay council tax! 

[Arthur Marshall]

13 hours ago, Goliath said:

I now understand not only will itinerant boaters without a fixed address be able to claim for Energy Bill Support, but so will caravan and vehicle dwellers 👍👍

Happy New Year 🎉

Anyone can claim. Whether everyone will get is another story.

[Cheshire cat]

1 hour ago, Ianws said:

Households where everyone is a student don't pay council tax. 

It is true. When the students leave the landlord is liable for council tax until new students move in. 

[Momac]

I agree the council tax element is irrelevant and only adds confusion.

 

Thinking all this through it seems to be suggested that  anyone who owns  or is a tenant in a property , or static home or caravan or motorhome, tent  or igloo etc regardless of the source of energy it uses could potentially claim the £400. The only condition being the £400 is paid only once per ''property''?

Presumably people who own a  second home and do not let it out to tenants  but pay utility bills hare receiving  the £400 for that second home. I can see no reason the second home owner in that case would not receive the £400. Similarly in the example of a MP who rents a flat in London or owns  a second property in London and pays utility bills will have received the £400 for the flat as well as the family home.

 

So can those of us who live in a house and own a boat claim for the boat on the same basis ?

Indeed some folks may own two boat so can they claim for both boats as  well as their main home? 

 

 

 

[MtB]

9 minutes ago, MartynG said:

Indeed some folks may own two boat so can they claim for both boats as  well as their main home? 

 

 

One would jolly well hope so, wouldn't one?!

 

And what about the people who live aboard all summer then go back to the house for the winter? They should get the £400 twice too, I reckon. 

[Momac]

38 minutes ago, MtB said:

And what about the people who live aboard all summer then go back to the house for the winter? They should get the £400 twice too, I reckon. 

Is there any logical reason why not?

 

 

From an internet search ..........

 

[MtB]

2 minutes ago, MartynG said:

Is there any logical reason why not?

 

Is there a logical reason why anyone should get anything?

 

Far better and more cost effective to just bung a couple of £bn directly to the energy companies to subsidise the cost of energy.

 

But this provides less scope for political showboating.

 

 

[Paul C]

58 minutes ago, MartynG said:

I agree the council tax element is irrelevant and only adds confusion.

 

 

 

 

I don’t think it adds confusion, it’s simply that if a property or home is already registered for council tax ( and that includes eg student houses, which are registered but claim a valid exemption) it makes it administratively very workable to ensure the £400 assistance gets applied without an enormous admin exercise or fraud exposure.

 

There is no record of which CCers are liveaboard or not, where or how should this be determined?

[Momac]

5 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

 

 

Far better and more cost effective to just bung a couple of £bn directly to the energy companies to subsidise the cost of energy.

From my perspective that is exactly what is happening . The money is not paid to me it is paid to the energy provider  who then shows it as  a payment towards my energy bill.

[MtB]

1 minute ago, MartynG said:

From my perspective that is exactly what is happening . The money is not paid to me it is paid to the energy provider  who then shows it as  a payment towards my energy bill.

 

No that's happening anyway, to all households with a leccy supply. It is partly to subsidise the now insane price of mains gas. The £400 AIUI is extra for the supposed 'off grid' houses with no mains gas and running on oil. 

 

 

Heating oil went up from 28p a litre in March to 100p a litre around September. boat diesel I think had a similar proportional rise. 

 

[Momac]

1 minute ago, Paul C said:

 

 

There is no record of which CCers are liveaboard or not, where or how should this be determined?

What difference does it  make if the boat is licensed  as a CC'er or not? What difference does it make if the boat is full time live aboard or part time liveaboard ? What difference does it make if the boat is a holiday home (just like a second home).

The boat still uses energy when it is in use  which is in part for domestic purposes (assuming the boat has living accommodation)

Folks who have a second home receive the £400 twice . So should that not apply to boats (with accommodation space)  being the floating equivalent  to a  second home ?

 

Or is that all too complicated and boats should be excluded ?

 

[MtB]

 

But I have to say, I find the whole thing is extremely confusing, once the politicians started prattling on about grants for off-grid users then it turned out by this they meant on-electrical-grid houses with no mains gas. It all went downhill from that point onwards.

[TheBiscuits]

1 minute ago, MtB said:

The £400 AIUI is extra for the supposed 'off grid' houses with no mains gas and running on oil.

 

No that's the £200 (which was £100 but they doubled it).

 

The £400 being discussed is the equivalent of the £66/67 per month off standard domestic electricity contracts but for "households" that don't have a direct contract with a domestic electricity supplier.