Trent winter opening times

[Midnight]

I see from October 1st C&RT have introduced winter opening times on the locks along the tidal Trent. I seem to recall in the past these used to be in force from November (?). There are boats heading North and because all three Pennine routes are still closed their only option is the Trent. These times add another layer of anxiety to those trying to plan tidal passages and get back to base. 

 

 

Edited October 2, 2022 by Midnight

[pearley]

Certainly in 2019 it was from 1 November as we were stuck in Nottingham due to flooding and then had to go to Newark without the lock keepers.

[PaulJ]

Just amended that ancient saying- 

'Time ,Tide and CRT wait for no man'

[pedlar]

Neither does Vazon railway bridge which now opens only at 9am and 1.00pm

[Momac]

I found a notice from 2017 which says the summer hours on the tidal locks finish end of September. But it seems to me they have been doing 8am to 4pm in summer for some time.

 

The non-tidal locks are usually manned from about 09:30 to 5pm (not sure of the exact hours)  from 1st April (or Easter if earlier) until the end of October. Or they may be self operated of course.

 

Edited October 2, 2022 by MartynG

[Momac]

 

[Momac]

Although Newark Town  lock was on amber for ''do it yourself'' yesterday morning.

.

[Naughty Cal]

We always found the Trent locks easier and quicker to work ourselves. 

 

We know what we are doing where each other needs to be and what each other expects, rather than some random person pussy footing around lifting a paddle a cm at a time.

[PD1964]

On 02/10/2022 at 09:02, Midnight said:

I see from October 1st C&RT have introduced winter opening times on the locks along the tidal Trent. I seem to recall in the past these used to be in force from November (?). There are boats heading North and because all three Pennine routes are still closed their only option is the Trent. These times add another layer of anxiety to those trying to plan tidal passages and get back to base. 

 

 

I don’t know why it would cause that much anxiety as the tidal locks(Cromwell, Torksey, W-Stockworth and Keadby) will always be manned, when required to let boats out and in. It’s the non tidal locks which will not be manned, but you can still get through them self-op.

[Momac]

17 minutes ago, PD1964 said:

.......... the tidal locks(Cromwell, Torksey, W-Stockworth and Keadby) will always be manned, when required to let boats out and in. 

No they are not necessarily manned  to suit the tides and may well not be manned unless pre booked 

I have requested a passage through  Cromwell at an evening time a couple of times and have been refused . So to avoid the argument I pick dates  when I want to go at times to fit with the  8am to 4pm shift.

West Stockwith have been more tuned to the tides although I also pick dates when office hours apply as far as possible,

 

Edited October 3, 2022 by MartynG

[Naughty Cal]

3 minutes ago, MartynG said:

No they are not necessarily manned  to suit the tides and may well not be manned unless pre booked 

I have requested a passage through  Cromwell at an evening time a couple of times and have been refused . So to avoid the argument I pick dates  when I want to go at times to fit with the  8am to 4pm shift.

West Stockwith have been more tuned to the tides although I also pick dates when office hours apply as far as possible,

 

Why?

 

CRT don't dicate the tide times. They have a duty to let you in and out when safe to do so.

 

During winter hours we have had to wait between Torksey and West Stockwith when one lock worked morning hours and the other evening hours but they both got us in and out again.

 

The more people don't question their practices the more they will get away with it. 

 

What next? A boating season with tidal locks closed from October to April?

[PD1964]

57 minutes ago, MartynG said:

No they are not necessarily manned  to suit the tides and may well not be manned unless pre booked 

I have requested a passage through  Cromwell at an evening time a couple of times and have been refused . So to avoid the argument I pick dates  when I want to go at times to fit with the  8am to 4pm shift.

West Stockwith have been more tuned to the tides although I also pick dates when office hours apply as far as possible,

 

I said they are manned when required(tide and pre booked related) to let boats out and in when required. This as you know is through the advance booking system. It’s quite obvious why you can’t go through Cromwell/Torksey/Keadby when you like and is tide managed and pre booked. You’ve obviously got a high powered cruiser and would probably be ok with tides? a Narrowboat or an underpowered boat wouldn’t. So I doubt there would be one rule for one and one for another with regards to the tide/booking system, obviously you were refused for a reason.

[Midnight]

1 hour ago, PD1964 said:

I don’t know why it would cause that much anxiety as the tidal locks(Cromwell, Torksey, W-Stockworth and Keadby) will always be manned, when required to let boats out and in. It’s the non tidal locks which will not be manned, but you can still get through them self-op.

On top of working out how to get back north these 8am to 4pm times mean there are days when the tides dont match the opening hours so no passage. Boating for northern based moorers is becoming a strategy game. 

[PD1964]

58 minutes ago, Midnight said:

On top of working out how to get back north these 8am to 4pm times mean there are days when the tides dont match the opening hours so no passage. Boating for northern based moorers is becoming a strategy game. 

 

  The times are irrelevant for the tidal locks, 8-4pm is quite obvious though, as this is basically daylight hours at that time of year. They will not send you out when it’s dark and not expect you to navigate once dark, this has always been the case no matter what time it is. Same as the Ouse Selby/Naburn, I once got stuck there for nearly a week waiting for a morning daylight tide. It’s just what happens at that time of year when the clocks go back and days get shorter. 

  But the times for the non-tidal section sections make no difference, you can still get though when they are not manned, unless they are putting them on red/closed out of these times, which I doubt as I’ve been through all of them out of these hours when not manned.

 

Edited October 3, 2022 by PD1964

[Momac]

50 minutes ago, PD1964 said:

I said they are manned when required(tide and pre booked related) to let boats out and in when required. This as you know is through the advance booking system. It’s quite obvious why you can’t go through Cromwell/Torksey/Keadby when you like and is tide managed and pre booked. You’ve obviously got a high powered cruiser and would probably be ok with tides? a Narrowboat or an underpowered boat wouldn’t. So I doubt there would be one rule for one and one for another with regards to the tide/booking system, obviously you were refused for a reason.

Yes, ample power. Going against a bit of tide not an issue .

 

Also please note we are a little deeper drafted than a narrowboat.

We  aim to be arriving at Torksey with plenty of water, which is sometimes a challenge. 

 

I have done it enough times to know what I am doing. The passage plan for a cruiser with adequate power  can  therefore be different to a narrowboat. Many factors at  play including springs or neaps and the amount of fresh on. Sometimes you can go when you like  sometimes you cant.

 

8am to 4pm (or 3.30pm in practice) is no problem for the lock keepers at Cromwell . I can go when I choose within those times . Its outside those hours  in summer that is the issue. Cromwell used to be manned summer hours and no booking was required in practice but that changed  about 3 years back.

 

There must be occasions when narrowboat would like to go  after 4pm or arrive at Cromwell from the salty side after 4pm  in summer  if the tide is right?

 

The non tidal locks can, if there is no fault,  be boater operated  when no lock keeper is present so not an issue  to those who are able to operate the locks . Can't be easy if single handed .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 3, 2022 by MartynG

[PD1964]

2 minutes ago, MartynG said:

There must be occasions when narrowboat would like to go  after 4pm or arrive at Cromwell from the salty side after 4pm  in summer  if the tide is right?

Yes in Summer but we’re talking nearly Winter. The opening hours for the tidal locks is irrelevant for that time of the year. it’s all down to tides and daylight hours, they will not let you out before it’s light and will not let you out if your not going to arrive in daylight. It’s down to safety not manned hours.

 

[Tacet]

On 02/10/2022 at 18:34, pedlar said:

Neither does Vazon railway bridge which now opens only at 9am and 1.00pm

We had a nice chat with the bridge keeper a while back.  According to him, the canal has priority over the railway - much to his glee and the annoyance of his superiors when a train was held up

[Momac]

9 hours ago, PD1964 said:

Yes in Summer but we’re talking nearly Winter. The opening hours for the tidal locks is irrelevant for that time of the year. it’s all down to tides and daylight hours, they will not let you out before it’s light and will not let you out if your not going to arrive in daylight. It’s down to safety not manned hours.

 

Yes  I have drifted into the summer hours (lack of) issue.

As far as the OP is concerned it appears to have been winter hours on Cromwell from October 1st for some time so nothing new there.

 

 

 

 

[noddyboater]

11 hours ago, PD1964 said:

 

   They will not send you out when it’s dark and not expect you to navigate once dark, this has always been the case no matter what time it is. 

 

Not true if you're heading for a unmanned mooring, such as Dunham or Torksey pontoon. 

I've been through Stockwith and Cromwell with less than an hour of daylight in winter, but that was by proper lock keepers who actually had boating experience. 

I've lost count of the number of times I've left Torksey on a winter's morning heading for Stockwith and done the first hour or so in darkness,  under the advice of the keeper to arrive on time.

[Mike Todd]

10 hours ago, Tacet said:

We had a nice chat with the bridge keeper a while back.  According to him, the canal has priority over the railway - much to his glee and the annoyance of his superiors when a train was held up

Not in my experience! Might have been way back for commercial traffic but hoi polloi are expected to wait. Culminating in the present very limited opening to boat traffic.

[PD1964]

1 hour ago, noddyboater said:

Not true if you're heading for a unmanned mooring, such as Dunham or Torksey pontoon. 

I've been through Stockwith and Cromwell with less than an hour of daylight in winter, but that was by proper lock keepers who actually had boating experience. 

I've lost count of the number of times I've left Torksey on a winter's morning heading for Stockwith and done the first hour or so in darkness,  under the advice of the keeper to arrive on time.

Your obviously the exception to the rule, but in the majority of cases narrowboats don’t travel the Trent after dark, be it off their own back or from guidance/advice from the lock keeper and as you say you’ve been moored outside of the locks on the floating pontoons, so no need to wait for the lock keeper to get you out.

 Depending on the times/tides it’s easily doable in the Winter months with no time/lock keeper restrictions, if your prepared to use the out of lock pontoons Dunham, Torksey, Gainsborough and want to do some dark hour runs. I doubt most will do this though.

Edited October 4, 2022 by PD1964

[Alan de Enfield]

16 minutes ago, PD1964 said:

Your obviously the exception to the rule, but in the majority of cases narrowboats don’t travel the Trent after dark, be it off their own back or from guidance/advice from the lock keeper and as you say you’ve been moored outside of the locks on the floating pontoons, so no need to wait for the lock keeper to get you out.

 Depending on the times/tides it’s easily doable in the Winter months with no time/lock keeper restrictions, if your prepared to use the out of lock pontoons Dunham, Torksey, Gainsborough and want to do some dark hour runs. I doubt most will do this though.

 

 

It would be quite easy for the 'tidal locks' to open to suit the tides either day or night, and simply say that any boat using the lock which will result in them cruising during the hours of darkness must have Colreg compliant nav lights. That'd pretty much rule out all NBs.

 

Over the years we have used many tidal locks which are in operation 'full time' to suit the tides. We have departed thru locks at all hours of the night and day.

Tide and time waiteth for no man.

[noddyboater]

23 minutes ago, PD1964 said:

Your obviously the exception to the rule, but in the majority of cases narrowboats don’t travel the Trent after dark, be it off their own back or from guidance/advice from the lock keeper and as you say you’ve been moored outside of the locks on the floating pontoons, so no need to wait for the lock keeper to get you out.

Turning into the tide out of Torksey cut and heading for the viaduct on a pitch black, crisp winter morning is one of inland boatings finest experiences. It certainly concentrates your attention. 

As you say,  the wait for daylight tides can be days sometimes,  so it's often necessary. 

[Midnight]

18 hours ago, PD1964 said:

 

  The times are irrelevant for the tidal locks, 8-4pm is quite obvious though, as this is basically daylight hours at that time of year. They will not send you out when it’s dark and not expect you to navigate once dark, this has always been the case no matter what time it is. Same as the Ouse Selby/Naburn, I once got stuck there for nearly a week waiting for a morning daylight tide. It’s just what happens at that time of year when the clocks go back and days get shorter. 

  But the times for the non-tidal section sections make no difference, you can still get though when they are not manned, unless they are putting them on red/closed out of these times, which I doubt as I’ve been through all of them out of these hours when not manned.

 

Yes that would make sense after the clocks go back but it's still light at 7pm atm. Why winter opening hours in October - just doesn't help!

[Momac]

9 minutes ago, Midnight said:

Why winter opening hours in October - just doesn't help!

 

What date do you have in mind ?

eg the next week or so looks fine for fitting in with the 8am to 4pm shift at Cromwell 

Then good again later in the month.