Sunshine PSW inverters from Tayna - cleanness of the waveform?

[MtB]

1 minute ago, rusty69 said:

Hmm. That to me seems an odd way of doing things. I reckon you're just after an excuse to buy a new gadget. 

 

It's a bloke thing innit. 

 

 

My whole career had been an excuse to buy gadgets!

 

 

[Bod]

Ask next door to isolate their car charger for 10 minutes, does your boiler work correctly during those 10 minutes?

 

Bod

[cuthound]

4 hours ago, MtB said:

 

 

Yes exactly. If the boiler works correctly with an inverter and LA battery, I can jury-rig a mains charger to the battery to keep it working during their guests' visit this week, and it also becomes pretty good evidence with which to approach SSE for help.

 

Another interesting factor is that coincidentally perhaps, this problem began the day next door installed their new electric car charger.

 

 

 

Sounds like the new car charger has introduced harmonics onto the mains. After all they are AC/DC converters.

 

I used to have to deal with kind of thing often when I was working.

 

If the boiler works on an inverter, then contact the local DNO (electricity company) and ask them to check for harmonic levels "at the point of common connection".

 

IEEE519 and EN50160 stipulate the maximum acceptable levels.

Harmonic level recommendations

 

If it is the charger, they will take it from there, probably by insisting the charger is removed and a compliant one fitted.

 

 

[Tracy D'arth]

Have you considered a generator?

[MtB]

1 minute ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Have you considered a generator?

 

 

I have thanks, but mine is 80 miles away! Might yet go and get it. 

 

Also, I'm not entirely sure about the quality of the mains output of my dinky little genny from Screwfix. Its an inverter genny so ought to be ok, but then the whole genny cost less than a standalone PSW inverter so I think it might be a clunky square wave output not PSW. 

 

[Tony Brooks]

13 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

 

I have thanks, but mine is 80 miles away! Might yet go and get it. 

 

Also, I'm not entirely sure about the quality of the mains output of my dinky little genny from Screwfix. Its an inverter genny so ought to be ok, but then the whole genny cost less than a standalone PSW inverter so I think it might be a clunky square wave output not PSW. 

 

 

Mike, I can lend you my Honda Eu 1000 if it helps - providing I can get it to start having not run for three years.

[MtB]

5 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Mike, I can lend you my Honda Eu 1000 if it helps - providing I can get it to start having not run for three years.

 

 

Hi Tony, that's a very kind offer and thank you very much. I'll keep it in reserve for now but I'll PM you if I find I need to take you up on it. 

[StephenA]

6 hours ago, cuthound said:

 

Sounds like the new car charger has introduced harmonics onto the mains. After all they are AC/DC converters.

 

I used to have to deal with kind of thing often when I was working.

 

If the boiler works on an inverter, then contact the local DNO (electricity company) and ask them to check for harmonic levels "at the point of common connection".

 

IEEE519 and EN50160 stipulate the maximum acceptable levels.

Harmonic level recommendations

 

If it is the charger, they will take it from there, probably by insisting the charger is removed and a compliant one fitted.

 

 

 

There's one up the road from us that basically wipes out Classic FM as you drive past their house.....

[MtB]

1 hour ago, StephenA said:

 

There's one up the road from us that basically wipes out Classic FM as you drive past their house.....

 

 

Would anyone notice? 

 

 

[phantom_iv]

On 21/08/2022 at 13:06, cuthound said:

 

Sounds like the new car charger has introduced harmonics onto the mains. After all they are AC/DC converters.

 

 

 

Domestic car “chargers” don’t do ac/dc conversion at all (well, apart from some low power stuff to run the electronics) the actual charger that does this is in the vehicle itself, the wall box basically just passes through AC to this.

 

Many of them require their own earth rods installed though, so could be some interesting effects there if it’s very close by / depending on ground conditions.

 

If pulling a full 7kw though the voltage does tend to drop a bit, could an out of spec too low mains voltage be upsetting the boiler? Would seem unlikely that their car would need that much charging though, would think it would be quite intermittent if this were the case (e.g only at night time)

[cuthound]

10 hours ago, phantom_iv said:

Domestic car “chargers” don’t do ac/dc conversion at all (well, apart from some low power stuff to run the electronics) the actual charger that does this is in the vehicle itself, the wall box basically just passes through AC to this.

 

Many of them require their own earth rods installed though, so could be some interesting effects there if it’s very close by / depending on ground conditions.

 

If pulling a full 7kw though the voltage does tend to drop a bit, could an out of spec too low mains voltage be upsetting the boiler? Would seem unlikely that their car would need that much charging though, would think it would be quite intermittent if this were the case (e.g only at night time)

 

Whether the AC/DC conversion is done by the charger or the vehicle is immaterial to the person suffering the problem. It is the chopping of the waveform that results in harmonics and also RFI & EMI. All of which should come with specified limits.

 

Having their own separate earth system is a proven way if reducing harmonics providing there is no connection to the mains earth system.

[MtB]

Just to tie off this thread, I fixed it.

 

Tayna let me down by failing to deliver the inverter on time, but I had already rigged up another PCB for this boiler on the bench and tested it and proved it worked, by connecting up a gas valve, APS, thermistor, overheast stat, fan and all the other bits a PCB in a boiler controls. So I had a complete working facsimile of the boiler to take with me. Basically, I fitted parts from my facsimile boiler into the real busted one and swapping the APS (air pressure switch) made the fault go away in the busted boiler. 

 

Really weird as the APS I removed works and measures fine on the DMM, but must have a noisy enough switch to upset the PCB. 

 

Thanks for all the input, everyone.

 

 

[Mike Tee]

You lost me at 'Tanya ........'!

[rusty69]

1 minute ago, Mike Tee said:

You lost me at 'Tanya ........'!

We can see that. It's Tayna. 

[MtB]

16 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

We can see that. It's Tayna. 

 

 

Dammit, bloody spill chucker!

 

Except on checking my post, the spill chucker did NOT intervene! 

[Mike Tee]

Well whoever it was, I was still lost!

[George and Dragon]

On 21/08/2022 at 08:55, MtB said:

Another interesting factor is that coincidentally perhaps, this problem began the day next door installed their new electric car charger.

 

Is next door on the same phase? If so I'd be very suspicious of such a coincidence.

ETA although I see you found that not to be the cause.

Edited August 26, 2022 by George and Dragon
added a bit