London boaters fight for moorings

[doratheexplorer]

8 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

 

No one pretends it's one big happy family but that's a long way from my issue which is that discord amongst boaters is something that is negative for all users.

 

Of course there are people that don't abide by the rules in any walk of life but they don't prevent most of us from doing what we want to do in life in general and the same is true on the canals. It's a more enclosed environment so perhaps it's more obvious on the canals but all you achieve by getting worked up about other people who aren't directly preventing you doing what you wish to do, is to spoil your own enjoyment.

 

The most likely reason you'll struggle to moor on any short stay VM - at least outside of London - is folk leaving git gaps.

 

 

Oh you've gone and done it now, bringing up git-gaps.  We'll have to start a new thread.

[Captain Pegg]

Just now, doratheexplorer said:

Oh you've gone and done it now, bringing up git-gaps.  We'll have to start a new thread.

 

I edited out an extra bit where I suggested the CWDF demographic was more aligned to git-gappers than reluctant movers and therefore we get rants about one but not the other.

 

So go ahead.

[IanD]

6 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

 

No one pretends it's one big happy family but that's a long way from my issue which is that discord amongst boaters is something that is negative for all users.

 

Of course there are people that don't abide by the rules in any walk of life but they don't prevent most of us from doing what we want to do in life in general and the same is true on the canals. It's a more enclosed environment so perhaps it's more obvious on the canals but all you achieve by getting worked up about other people who aren't directly preventing you doing what you wish to do, is to spoil your own enjoyment.

 

The most likely reason you'll struggle to moor on any short stay VM - at least outside of London - is folk leaving git gaps.

 

 

I don't get worked up about it, when I'm out on the canals I just enjoy it -- but it's still irritating when you can't find a place to moor because of other people's selfishness and disregard for the rules. Git gaps annoy me too, and even more so when people give you the stink eye when you have the temerity to moor close up to them sharing a mooring ring. Or even worse, dare to suggest to them that they might move up a ring to make the git gap big enough for you to get into...

 

Of course some people are perfectly happy to do this if you ask nicely (which I always do), others seem to think it's an impossible imposition to suggest they might spend a few minutes untying their boat, moving it along twenty feet or so, and retying it... 😞

[Midnight]

1 hour ago, IanD said:

 

I see *some* other boaters as a problem, specifically the ones who ignore the rules about mooring and CCing, who block short-term and VMs from the use they're intended for, and prevent any kind of fair access for boaters in honeypot areas.

 

Regarding busy places like Braunston, of course I'm not saying there are never any mooring spaces, or that all boats don't move on as required -- but if I go past a place twice a week apart and the same boats are moored in exactly the same 48h mooring (which has happened many times when I've been looking to moor) the obvious reason is that they haven't moved.

 

In life generally there's a conflict of beliefs and attitudes and interests between those who generally believe in obeying the law and following rules and those who don't and will do anything they can get away with if it's to their advantage. The canals are no different, and no amount of pretending that boaters are one big happy family will change that... 😞

 

I agree and it's only going to get worse as the NBTA - the only boaters group with teeth - are encouraging the "Self-entitled" approach to mooring and not moving. Their recent statement is  telling "This continued disregard for the people who live and work in these new ‘no mooring’ and proposed paid-for mooring areas drives boaters away from their livelihoods,"
Is that code for I want it all and don't want to pay for it?

[IanD]

3 minutes ago, Midnight said:

 

I agree and it's only going to get worse as the NBTA - the only boaters group with teeth - are encouraging the "Self-entitled" approach to mooring and not moving. Their recent statement is  telling "This continued disregard for the people who live and work in these new ‘no mooring’ and proposed paid-for mooring areas drives boaters away from their livelihoods,"
Is that code for I want it all and don't want to pay for it?

 

Yes 😞

[Alan de Enfield]

12 minutes ago, Midnight said:

 

I agree and it's only going to get worse as the NBTA - the only boaters group with teeth - are encouraging the "Self-entitled" approach to mooring and not moving. Their recent statement is  telling "This continued disregard for the people who live and work in these new ‘no mooring’ and proposed paid-for mooring areas drives boaters away from their livelihoods,"
Is that code for I want it all and don't want to pay for it?

 

I wonder how many working house owners expect to be able to have work so close to their house ?

Surely the vast, vast majority have to drive or train or bus to work ?

 

Can LOndon boaters not moor where they are allowed to moor and travel into work ?

After all the public transport situation in London is far better than much of the rest of the country.

[IanD]

2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I wonder how many working house owners expect to be able to have work so close to their house ?

Surely the vast, vast majority have to drive or train or bus to work ?

 

Can LOndon boaters not moor where they are allowed to moor and travel into work ?

After all the public transport situation in London is far better than much of the rest of the country.

 

Yes they could, but travelling in and out of London every day is expensive (thousands of pounds a year), and since the reason a lot of boaters live on the canals there (without paying for a mooring) is to save money...

[Captain Pegg]

16 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

I don't get worked up about it, when I'm out on the canals I just enjoy it -- but it's still irritating when you can't find a place to moor because of other people's selfishness and disregard for the rules. Git gaps annoy me too, and even more so when people give you the stink eye when you have the temerity to moor close up to them sharing a mooring ring. Or even worse, dare to suggest to them that they might move up a ring to make the git gap big enough for you to get into...

 

Of course some people are perfectly happy to do this if you ask nicely (which I always do), others seem to think it's an impossible imposition to suggest they might spend a few minutes untying their boat, moving it along twenty feet or so, and retying it... 😞

 

We all have those irritations, even arriving at your intended VM to find it full with nose to tail boats is annoying, particularly if someone has had the temerity to moor a purple boat there. But it soon subsides when you find a realistic alternative.

 

If you want to annoy people leaving git gaps having a 35' boat is a good starting point.

 

I think owning a boat takes you to places that hiring a boat doesn't and you probably mellow in your attitude to other boaters over time, particularly when it exposes your own prejudices and blows apart your stereotypes (one of my favourite boats is actually purple and a dumper).

 

 

[doratheexplorer]

27 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

 

I edited out an extra bit where I suggested the CWDF demographic was more aligned to git-gappers than reluctant movers and therefore we get rants about one but not the other.

 

So go ahead.

You may have a point there.

 

Personally I feel a level of sympathy for many reluctant movers.  They've found themselves in a difficult situation which many of CWDF ivory tower dwellers simply can't seem to comprehend.  Whereas git-gappers are just selfish twats.  I dealt with one recently on the Severn and he threw an absolute hissy fit about even the suggestion of moving up a bit.  Luckily a scruffy boater next along came to my rescue and let me breast up to him for the night.

Edited July 1, 2022 by doratheexplorer

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

Yes they could, but travelling in and out of London every day is expensive (thousands of pounds a year), and since the reason a lot of boaters live on the canals there (without paying for a mooring) is to save money...

 

Accepted, but as it is 'only' a few 100 yards that is being made unavailable, all they need to do is move a few hundred yards and breast up.

 

No need to commute in from Oxford or Nottingham.

 

 

Edited July 1, 2022 by Alan de Enfield

[doratheexplorer]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Accepted, but as it is 'only' a few 100 yards that is being made unavailable, all they need to do is move a few hundred yards and breast up.

Your ignorance on this topic is palpable.  A few hundred yards and breast up?  When the entire canal is already double moored for miles in either direction.

[PaulJ]

5 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Can LOndon boaters not moor where they are allowed to moor and travel into work ?

After all the public transport situation in London is far better than much of the rest of the country.

Ive often wondered that myself. Loads of space and greenery only a few miles out.

Its not that expensive for a tube ride in.

[Captain Pegg]

Just now, doratheexplorer said:

You may have a point there.

 

Personally I feel a level of sympathy for many reluctant movers.  They've found themselves in a difficult situation which many of CWDF ivory tower dwelling simply can't seem to comprehend.  Whereas git-gappers are just selfish twats.  I dealt with one recently on the Severn and he threw an absolute hissy fit about even the suggestion of moving up a bit.  Luckily a scruffy boater next along came to my rescue and let me breast up to him for the night.

 

I took it out in part because I wasn't sure it was true. I may have been thinking of FB boating groups who love a moan about anyone doing more than 2mph anywhere at all.

[IanD]

18 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

 

We all have those irritations, even arriving at your intended VM to find it full with nose to tail boats is annoying, particularly if someone has had the temerity to moor a purple boat there. But it soon subsides when you find a realistic alternative.

 

If you want to annoy people leaving git gaps having a 35' boat is a good starting point.

 

I think owning a boat takes you to places that hiring a boat doesn't and you probably mellow in your attitude to other boaters over time, particularly when it exposes your own prejudices and blows apart your stereotypes (one of my favourite boats is actually purple and a dumper).

 

 

 

I'm not prejudiced against boats depending on how they look, some of the grottiest looking boats have the friendliest people in them and some of the shiniest boats have the biggest tw*ts. Oh dear, maybe that's reverse prejudice... 😉

 

(but I did say "some of" -- in other words, never judge a book by its cover)

 

Or people -- a good friend of mine used to be absolutely covered in tattoos and piercings with a shaved head but he really was one of the nicest guys you could hope to meet, I've genuinely seen him helping old ladies across the street. I've also met lots of well-groomed guys in smart suits who turned out to to amoral sh*ts, rather like some Tory politicians today...

 

(not Boris obviously, he's a scruffy amoral sh*t...)

12 minutes ago, PaulJ said:

Ive often wondered that myself. Loads of space and greenery only a few miles out.

Its not that expensive for a tube ride in.

Do you often travel in London?

 

A return fare in from the suburbs in peak hours (needed for work) is around £10 a day (give or take a bit, depending on location), which is about £2000 per year.

Edited July 1, 2022 by IanD

[IanD]

17 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

You may have a point there.

 

Personally I feel a level of sympathy for many reluctant movers.  They've found themselves in a difficult situation which many of CWDF ivory tower dwellers simply can't seem to comprehend.  Whereas git-gappers are just selfish twats.  I dealt with one recently on the Severn and he threw an absolute hissy fit about even the suggestion of moving up a bit.  Luckily a scruffy boater next along came to my rescue and let me breast up to him for the night.

 

I can perfectly well comprehend the difficult situation they've got themselves into by ignoring the rules and building their life (kids, job, finances) around being able to stay in one place on the canals without paying, because when they're told to either move on or pay up they do have a big problem.

 

My sympathy for them is limited by the fact that this is a problem entirely of their own making.

 

My experience with git-gappers mirrors yours, the hissy-fitters are often on shiny boats (yes, I'm going to have one too next year...) and the helpful ones are often on scruffy ones -- very like people in general... 😉

Edited July 1, 2022 by IanD

[PaulJ]

8 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

Do you often travel in London?

 

A return fare in from the suburbs in peak hours (needed for work) is around £10 a day (give or take a bit, depending on location), which is about £2000 per year.

Depends. I try not to but needs must.

Often by train and sometimes by water. Enjoy boating through alot more than the train.

 

Plenty of people commute in and pay way more in rail fares-they also pay rent/mortgages/moorings too so I dont think thats an unreasonable extra cost if you want a free mooring with a bit of space.

[IanD]

Just now, PaulJ said:

Depends. I try not to but needs must.

Often by train and sometimes by water. Enjoy boating through alot more than the train.

 

Plenty of people commute in and pay way more in rail fares-they also pay rent/mortgages/moorings too so I dont think thats an unreasonable extra cost if you want a free mooring with a bit of space.

 

I agree, it's not unreasonable -- the problem is that the boaters in question (living on the canal because it's cheap) either don't want to or can't afford to pay this, £2000 a year is a lot of money to some people.

[Alan de Enfield]

Just now, IanD said:

 

I agree, it's not unreasonable -- the problem is that the boaters in question (living on the canal because it's cheap) either don't want to or can't afford to pay this, £2000 a year is a lot of money to some people.

 

At £10 per day commute it is not dissimilar to the price to a pint of beer in London.

(In fact the UK average beer price is apparenty £4.57)

[IanD]

13 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

At £10 per day commute it is not dissimilar to the price to a pint of beer in London.

(In fact the UK average beer price is apparenty £4.57)

 

So you don't buy beer in London either, then -- at the pubs I go to most often it's around £5 a pint.

 

Irrelevant anyway, the issue is whether they want to or can afford to pay a couple of grand a year, not how much a beer costs...

[doratheexplorer]

5 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

So you don't buy beer in London either, then -- at the pubs I go to most often it's around £5 a pint.

 

Irrelevant anyway, the issue is whether they want to or can afford to pay a couple of grand a year, not how much a beer costs...

In experience, the price of a pint of beer in London isn't noticably more than it is in Birmingham.  The idea that a pint in London is comparitively extortionate is a myth.

[IanD]

5 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

In experience, the price of a pint of beer in London isn't noticably more than it is in Birmingham.  The idea that a pint in London is comparitively extortionate is a myth.

 

Having spent plenty of time recently in various pubs in London and also places like Brum and Sheffield, I can confirm that beer (real ale, not lager) *is* more expensive in London -- anything under £5 a pint is a bonus, and some places are over £6, compared to perhaps £3.50-£4.50 typical in the Midlands and North -- so maybe £1.50 a pint more expensive.

 

Which shouldn't be any surprise given the higher costs of running a pub in London (rent/rates/lease/wages). A friend of mine who's just left a job as a pub manager was always complaining about this...

Edited July 1, 2022 by IanD

[peterboat]

55 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

At £10 per day commute it is not dissimilar to the price to a pint of beer in London.

(In fact the UK average beer price is apparenty £4.57)

2.10 squids for a chocolate orange stout in Spoons! Along with not a bad curry a good night was had when I had to stay because of rain 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[IanD]

4 minutes ago, peterboat said:

2.10 squids for a chocolate orange stout in Spoons! Along with not a bad curry a good night was had when I had to stay because of rain 🤣🤣🤣🤣

 

How about beer, not pudding? 😉

 

(yes I know Spoons are dirt cheap and you love them dearly, other opinions are available...)

Edited July 1, 2022 by IanD

[peterboat]

Just now, IanD said:

 

How about beer, not pudding? 😉

 

(yes I know Spoons are dirt cheap and you love them dearly, other opinions are available...)

Loads of hand pulled to choose from, it's Castleford. The reality is Spoons are easily the most popular pub in the UK last night no spare tables to be had

[IanD]

22 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Loads of hand pulled to choose from, it's Castleford. The reality is Spoons are easily the most popular pub in the UK last night no spare tables to be had

"Six million flies can't be wrong -- eat sh*t!" 😉