Fire extinguishers...

[Slow and Steady]

4 hours ago, LadyG said:

Getting the work done with professional assistance can pay off. 

For example, if the work can be done in four weeks instead of six months, that's a saving of 22 weekly costs, in my case, that is 22 x 20, £440.

 

You're advising someone on a strict budget that basically they can't afford to do it, then in the next breath advise paying pros to do the work? Are you really saying that work done for a professional fee of £440 would have taken you 6 months to do yourself? Say it was £50/hr + vat, that's 8 hours work! It's obvious that you've never had to live on a budget - let them eat cake!

[Janz]

On 27/02/2022 at 09:40, LadyG said:

You cannot fit out a boat on UC, best get a job in a boatyard! 

Watch me. You know you wanna I'm not going to post up any personal info about myself & how I make ends meet because as Alan rightly pointed out - officialdom likes to trawl through public posts on social media, especially when someone gets put under the spotlight. Suffice to say I can get by, through fair means or foul, legal or nefarious... it's all the same to me. Anyway, by the time I get round to soft furnishings I'll be posting up my progress. Right now, I have other issues 'cos I think my solenoid has packed up. Was out on the boat with my brother yesterday & saw smoke coming from the solenoid area. I'll take it over to the BMC section.

I'll get around to replying to you other guys soon...

[haggis]

You are right, Janz, it is nobodies business how you are financing your boat renovations but some people seem to enjoy being "gloom merchants "  and giving you the benefit of their views, no matter how relevant they are. 

Edited February 28, 2022 by haggis

[LadyG]

I'm not advising OP to do anything, I'm just looking at things from a slightly different perspective. 

Otherwise there would never be any debate on the forum. 

If there was one solution to every problem there would be very few posts and very few threads. 

If OP reads my posts on this thread, and those of other poster, he would pick up extra information. 

He wanted to know about fire extinguishers. He need not read any further than the relevant replies. 

I made it perfectly clear I do not know about his sources of income, I don't want to know. He may live in a £million mansion, but still want to spend his resources on a boat. That is entirely his option, I hope he ends up with a boat which is going to repay his efforts. 

Edited February 28, 2022 by LadyG

[IanD]

3 hours ago, haggis said:

You are right, Janz, it is nobodies business how you are financing your boat renovations but some people seem to enjoy being "gloom merchants "  and giving you the benefit of their views, no matter how relevant they are. 

...unless he's a Russian oligarch downgrading from a superyacht, in which case CWDF might have to consider applying sanctions... 😉

[Janz]

On 27/02/2022 at 10:52, Quattrodave said:

 

I must admit I do agree... Everything in the marine world is much more expensive.  I'm approaching the end of a refit, I've spent a small fortune!  Things that I didn't take into account, marine plywood, well over £100 a sheet now, yes you can use exterior but that's another argument.  12v & 240v (including battery) cabling with the correct ratings, expensive.  Decent quality fuses, fuseboxes & connectors expensive.  Decent isolator switches with a proper rating, difficult to find and expensive iirc mine were £75 each.... Decent stainless screws, stainless fittings expensive.  thats long before you get to the finer points, batteries, chargers, battery protects, cooker, fridge etc, marine paint etc... I did nearly all the work my self and I was savvy with prices, I shopped around & opened trade accounts where I could.... oh and a small fortune on specialist tools to do specific jobs.... I'm very lucky I have good friends in various trades, I have access to multiple workshops, I'm a good welder, I have a lathe, flypress and a press brake.

 

Lastly, if you do a good job your boat will be worth more, if you do a bad job it'll be worth less... oh and please, its not a motorbike it's a boat, please stop drawing comparisons.  Example; wiring, even for a simple light your runs will be much much longer therefore you'll need much thicker cables so you dont get voltage drop, do your calculations!!

 

Dont get me wrong, not trying to put you off, I want you to be successful, just my experience, it's a steap learing curve, I have the T shirt as they say.

If you want to use/support the marine suppliers then fine but they're expensive. Roughly 50% more expensive that auto parts suppliers in fact. It's your choice & I respect that. However, it's beyond my budget so I can't afford to use Calcutt/ASAP etc. As my engine is a BMC 1500 D, I have the option of using the auto suppliers & I will. If you don't think I can fit out a boat on the dole,  that's fine. I respect your opinion but essentially what you're saying is that I can't fit one out to your spec & needs, not mine. You probably paid more for your fit out than I paid for my boat. What I don't understand is how you can ignore the world outside of boating. For example there are people living cheap in flats. They have the same items as those living in luxury developments but live with cheaper products - so maybe they use Indesit & Beko rather than Miele & Smeg. Maybe their flats are smaller with lower ceilings, no deep pile carpets etc, etc.

If you want to spend big bucks on specialist tools, that's fine too. Maybe you'll use 'em more than once, maybe not but again they are luxuries I can't afford, so I either make up a tool or live without the job being done.

I don't have a workshop, lathe, welder or any of that stuff. I do what I have to do by the side of the road or canal. If I want to use a second hand motorbike part because I have those parts, why should it worry you? It's a boat? Yeah it's a boat but it has a motorbike headlamp already. I plan to rip that off 'cos the glass is broken & fit two motorbike headlamps in its place. Voltage drop? Who cares? I'll have high beams on mine, so if it's a bit dark I can flip the switch & I'll have two very bright lights up front & just dip them if I see another boat. I did a lot of night cruising on the way down here & I didn't see another boat moving, just people in their moored boats going about their business. I get the feeling that not many boaters cruise at night & that's their prerogative. I had to. It was either that or spend cold nights on an unequipped boat. From what I'm aware it isn't against the law to cruise at night, it's just a bit risky. Well if you ain't got no mooring pins, you ain't mooring... so continue until you can find somewhere suitable to tie up.

When I get time & I don't get enough time, I'll start a thread on fitting out a boat on a budget. I'll post up my workarounds, my purchases & my alternatives to boat suppliers. It's just living space after all. I will recycle wherever I can - second hand parts, scrap merchants & breaker's yards are my preferred go to places for bits & not just because of price. Quality is quality & I would prefer a quality part from twenty years ago rather that some tacky modern crap. Plus I'll use as much as I can of my home furniture because it's of good quality & has some sentimental value to me. I can't take it all with me but you will see soon how I make it all work for me. Boat furniture is mostly crap from what I've seen - cheap fold away tables, mine's oak. Fixed bench seating, mine can come out & be used on the towpath. Cheap sofabed, mine's a Futon. Crap fixed beds, mine's a pine loft bed so I'll get all the storage space underneath.

When I bought my boat, & I was looking for a year, I bought the best one I could afford with a decent hull, decent paint & a decent engine. My floor could be lifted to see what was underneath. It had been recently welded & blacked. Ok, it's old, it was very cheap & I had problems getting insurance but so what? I'm on the canal network now. I have fixed the plumbing for hot water, I have serviced the engine & gearbox, fixed the Jabsco cooling system, cleaned the engine & cabin bilges & started to take down the wood panelling in my house to use on the boat. I've also met some cool boaty people that look after me & my boat. I've only had it a month & a week of that was getting it here. I'm doing alright & I'm learning & doing every day...🏴‍☠️

[Ronaldo47]

It's best to fit dippable headlights upside down so that they dip upwards. Dipping down reflects off the water and is almost as dazzling as main beam in tunnels. 

[MtB]

3 hours ago, IanD said:

...unless he's a Russian oligarch downgrading from a superyacht, in which case CWDF might have to consider applying sanctions... 😉

 

I've always thought that would make a great username. 

 

I might even change my own to Ollie Gark. 

[Quattrodave]

1 hour ago, Janz said:

If you want to use/support the marine suppliers then fine but they're expensive. Roughly 50% more expensive that auto parts suppliers in fact. It's your choice & I respect that. However, it's beyond my budget so I can't afford to use Calcutt/ASAP etc. As my engine is a BMC 1500 D, I have the option of using the auto suppliers & I will.

Hmmm not quite what I said or what I was getting at... I did also say that I was 'savvy with prices'...  You missed my point, there are lots of items you will over look a lot of those are a necessity to make your work safe and legal.

 

1 hour ago, Janz said:

 If I want to use a second hand motorbike part because I have those parts, why should it worry you? It's a boat? Yeah it's a boat but it has a motorbike headlamp already. I plan to rip that off 'cos the glass is broken & fit two motorbike headlamps in its place. Voltage drop? Who cares? I'll have high beams on mine, so if it's a bit dark I can flip the switch & I'll have two very bright lights up front & just dip them if I see another boat.

Fair play, if you want to use a motorcycle head lamp, however the BSS states 'cables MUST be capable of carrying the current and be of the right construction and grade. New electrical installations MUST use multi-stranded conductors' 

Also if you have undersized wiring and voltage drop on a dipped beam, you think full beam is going to be better...?  Its going to be worse, your attempting to pull even more amps over an already undersized cable...  What ever you do please be really carful about blinding people with lights, note that light reflects off the water too.

 

1 hour ago, Janz said:

If you want to spend big bucks on specialist tools, that's fine too. Maybe you'll use 'em more than once, maybe not but again they are luxuries I can't afford, so I either make up a tool or live without the job being done.

There are certain specialist tools you NEED to do a job properly, saftely and to spec.

 

1 hour ago, Janz said:

From what I'm aware it isn't against the law to cruise at night,

Nope its not, as long as you have the correct navigation lighting and your insurance hasnt got a clause against it...

Edited February 28, 2022 by Quattrodave

[MtB]

5 hours ago, LadyG said:

He may live in a £million mansion, but still want to spend his resources on a boat.

 

I certainly don't, I sold it three years ago! 

 

 

[Tony Brooks]

7 minutes ago, Quattrodave said:

There are certain specialist tools you NEED to do a job properly, saftely and to spec.

 

 

I would suggest a decent multi-meter and learning how to use it is one of the frst ones to get hold of.

[Quattrodave]

5 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I would suggest a decent multi-meter and learning how to use it is one of the frst ones to get hold of.

Oh, yes, the amount of people that i know have one but not idea how to use it is staggering!  TBH the tool i was actually thinking of was my big set of crimps for crimping battery cabeling... when you need them there's just no substitute...

Edited February 28, 2022 by Quattrodave
oops can't spell today...

[Tony Brooks]

Just now, Quattrodave said:

Oh, yes, the ammout of people that i know have one but not idea how to use it is staggering!  TBH the tool i was actually thinking of was my big set of crimps for crimping battery cabeling... when you need them there's just no substitute...

 

Absolutely. I just hope he is not planning to use on of those cheap and nasty pressed steel pliers type crimp tools.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

Something that hasn't been mentioned yet. There is a good chance the motorbike headlight that @Janz is fitting uses the shell of the lamp as part of the earth return. Boats need to be two wire to each thing. One wire taking the positive supply, the other wire the negative return. Don't use the steel hull of the boat as part of the return path to the batteries. This is something the boat safety scheme checks for and will be a fail. See section 3.7 of the requirements. This will probably need some modification of the headlight, but should be doable.

The reason is that weird stray currents in the boat hull can give very bad corrosion to your boat and others moored nearby.

Thought I'd mention it, as using the bodywork to carry the return is usual practice on most cars and I'm guessing motorbikes too, so it would seem reasonable to assume boats are the same, when they are not.

Jen

[Quattrodave]

Just now, Tony Brooks said:

 

Absolutely. I just hope he is not planning to use on of those cheap and nasty pressed steel pliers type crimp tools.

I'd rather use my teeth... Probably do a better job too...

[MtB]

12 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Something that hasn't been mentioned yet. There is a good chance the motorbike headlight that @Janz is fitting uses the shell of the lamp as part of the earth return.

 

It HAS been mentioned in one of Janz's many threads, but I'm not sure it went in and lodged anywhere. 

 

 

[Jen-in-Wellies]

2 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

It HAS been mentioned in one of Janz's many threads, but I'm not sure it went in and lodged anywhere. 

 

 

Thanks. I just did a search on this thread, not all of them.

[Janz]

29 minutes ago, Quattrodave said:

Hmmm not quite what I said or what I was getting at... I did also say that I was 'savvy with prices'...  You missed my point, there are lots of items you will over look a lot of those are a necessity to make your work safe and legal.

 

Fair play, if you want to use a motorcycle head lamp, however the BSS states 'cables MUST be capable of carrying the current and be of the right construction and grade. New electrical installations MUST use multi-stranded conductors' 

Also if you have undersized wiring and voltage drop on a dipped beam, you think full beam is going to be better...?  Its going to be worse, your attempting to pull even more amps over an already undersized cable...  What ever you do please be really carful about blinding people with lights, note that light reflects off the water too.

 

There are certain specialist tools you NEED to do a job properly, saftely and to spec.

 

Nope its not, as long as you have the correct navigation lighting and your insurance hasnt got a clause against it...

The cable is already installed.  I'm just replacing the lamp. The cable must have been passed by BSS because I have BSS. I haven't missed your point. Your point was that you agreed that it was impossible to fit out a boat on Universal Credit because you spent a fortune fitting yours out.

Special tools are for specialists. That ain't me. I'm just a bloke who has had enough of being screwed over by the government, rabid free market profiteers, landlords, corporations & so on. If the job needs a specialist tool & I can't make something fit, then the job doesn't get done or I try something else. I'm surprised you need specialist tools when you could make something with your lathe. I would. Sykes Pickavant ain't getting any money from me. What specialist tools are needed for maintaining a boat? Some pullers maybe? Go on, I'm interested to know.

[Janz]

17 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

It HAS been mentioned in one of Janz's many threads, but I'm not sure it went in and lodged anywhere. 

 

 

All I'm doing is replacing the lamp unit. I am not replacing any wiring. What that means is that I will use the existing wiring. The BSS approved wiring with the BSS approved earth return. I'm not going to turn the canal into an electrolysis experiment. I'm just replacing a light which is broken. Broken light replacement, y'all... not a disco. There's a light bulb joke in here somewhere...

[David Mack]

6 minutes ago, Janz said:

All I'm doing is replacing the lamp unit. I am not replacing any wiring. What that means is that I will use the existing wiring. The BSS approved wiring with the BSS approved earth return. I'm not going to turn the canal into an electrolysis experiment. I'm just replacing a light which is broken. Broken light replacement, y'all... not a disco. There's a light bulb joke in here somewhere...

But your replacement motor cycle headlight until will probably have one side of the bulb earthed to the headlight body. So either you have to interrupt that connection, or you have to use a fully insulated mounting detail between the headlamp and the boat steelwork.

[Janz]

41 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Absolutely. I just hope he is not planning to use on of those cheap and nasty pressed steel pliers type crimp tools.

After checking the wiring, I'm unofficially done with crimps. Crimps are just a terrible thing. I don't care what the regulations say, they'll be soldered & a tacky bit of finest blue crimpesque plastique placed over the top so they look like crimps. If the part can be removed & brought home, it's getting soldered & waterproof bullet connectors fitted so if anything goes wrong with it, it can be removed & replaced. I hate crimps...

[Tony Brooks]

If you want to do any serious engine work then you need  a torque wrench and if you take the head off I don't see how you can accurately re-torque it without a crows foot. You could make a  torque wrench with a length of old cart type spring but can you calibrate it accurately enough. Then there is the need for a multi-meter, which you do not seem to posses. Getting one and learning how to use it properly in a variety of different roles will save you endless bills from so called marine electricians.

 

 

 

 

 

[Janz]

3 minutes ago, David Mack said:

But your replacement motor cycle headlight until will probably have one side of the bulb earthed to the headlight body. So either you have to interrupt that connection, or you have to use a fully insulated mounting detail between the headlamp and the boat steelwork.

No,I will simply use the earth return on the current arrangement. Don't forget that there's already a motorbike headlamp fitted to the boat, a full fat, BSS approved motorbike headlamp from whan looks to me to be from a Honda CB250/400n...

[Tony Brooks]

19 minutes ago, Janz said:

All I'm doing is replacing the lamp unit. I am not replacing any wiring. What that means is that I will use the existing wiring. The BSS approved wiring with the BSS approved earth return. I'm not going to turn the canal into an electrolysis experiment. I'm just replacing a light which is broken. Broken light replacement, y'all... not a disco. There's a light bulb joke in here somewhere...

 

The BSS does not approve or fail and  earth return. Good practice to save the possibility of your hull perforating says you need to wire all the boat's electrical equipment as insulated return although practicalities means  few engine electrics are truly insulated return.

 

The BSS does not approve the tunnel lamp wherever it comes from.

 

None of this is a joking matter, but it's your boat, your decision and you will have to accept responsibility for it.

Edited February 28, 2022 by Tony Brooks

[David Mack]

1 hour ago, Quattrodave said:

however the BSS states 'cables MUST be capable of carrying the current and be of the right construction and grade. New electrical installations MUST use multi-stranded conductors'

The BSS does not state that multi stranded cables must be used. I believe the RCD/RCR require it, but that won't apply to the OP's boat.

That said, multi stranded cable really should be used, and not domestic twin and earth.

Edited February 28, 2022 by David Mack