Hi all....newbie seeking somebody to shout at him :-)

[DerekB]

Hi ya, 

 

Total newcomer to the world of narrow boats, total sum of experience is about an hour at the tiller of a widebeam....I didn't hit anything!

 

Would really appreciate joining people around the London area who could use an inexperienced but willing pair of hands and impart some of the required wisdom and etiquette for navigating the network. I might even show up with a bottle of wine 🙂

 

[Arthur Marshall]

Only required etiquette is drive on the right and be thoughtful of other people. If in doubt, take it slower. If you're on your own, take your time at locks, and don't let people waiting rush you. You won't find it hard to find people to shout at you if you do anything wrong!

[DerekB]

3 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Only required etiquette is drive on the right and be thoughtful of other people. If in doubt, take it slower. If you're on your own, take your time at locks, and don't let people waiting rush you. You won't find it hard to find people to shout at you if you do anything wrong!

It's also stuff like how to work the locks properly, knots for tying up etc. The practical knowledge that people have. I could figure out the locks but wouldn't know if i was doing it the most efficient way. I've been reading the forum posts for info about condensation, solar etc but the practical tricks and tips are harder to come by.

[doratheexplorer]

14 minutes ago, DerekB said:

It's also stuff like how to work the locks properly, knots for tying up etc. The practical knowledge that people have. I could figure out the locks but wouldn't know if i was doing it the most efficient way. I've been reading the forum posts for info about condensation, solar etc but the practical tricks and tips are harder to come by.

I'd say about three quarters of narrowboaters don't know how to tie their mooring lines properly.  So beware of learning these things from other boaters.  There is some good info online about how to do it properly.

 

The most efficient way of locking varies according to the crew, the boat and the lock.  Youtube videos should be able to give you a good starter.

 

Maybe start some new threads with questions about condensation and solar.

 

The short answers:

 

Condensation - insulate or ventilate.

Solar - yes, lots.

[blackrose]

I think it's a good idea to get out there and meet people and learn a bit. There are lots of people myself included who would appreciate some help working locks. Unfortunately I'm no longer in the London area. 

 

You'll find that different boaters do things differently and that can be confusing, but you'll have to decide for yourself the best way for you.

 

I think your problem at the moment is that's it's not an ideal time to be meeting people or going onto people's boats.

[doratheexplorer]

This will give you a good start on knots:

 

 

What they don't mention, is that you should send the line out to the bollard, ring or whatever, loop it round and come back to your boat to tie the knot on the bollard on your boat.

 

Reasons: 

 

1.  It's tidier, the remaining rope will be on your boat, not strewn over the towpath to be trodden on or pissed on by dogs.

2.  You should be able to re-tie your lines while on the boat.  If there's a major storm and you have to go onto the towpath to re-tie your lines, there's a risk that the boat could be blown away without you.

3.  Kids are less likely to mess with your knots and untie them if the knots are on the boat.

[DerekB]

3 minutes ago, blackrose said:

I think it's a good idea to get out there and meet people and learn a bit. There are lots of people myself included who would appreciate some help working locks. Unfortunately I'm no longer in the London area. 

 

You'll find that different boaters do things differently and that can be confusing, but you'll have to decide for yourself the best way for you.

 

I think your problem at the moment is that's it's not an ideal time to be meeting people or going onto people's boats.

Between covid and going into winter my timing does leave something to be desired.

 

I think the more variations I can observe and work with the more I can think about what'll work best for me

4 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

This will give you a good start on knots:

 

 

What they don't mention, is that you should send the line out to the bollard, ring or whatever, loop it round and come back to your boat to tie the knot on the bollard on your boat.

 

Reasons: 

 

1.  It's tidier, the remaining rope will be on your boat, not strewn over the towpath to be trodden on or pissed on by dogs.

2.  You should be able to re-tie your lines while on the boat.  If there's a major storm and you have to go onto the towpath to re-tie your lines, there's a risk that the boat could be blown away without you.

3.  Kids are less likely to mess with your knots and untie them if the knots are on the boat.

Thanks for that, i'll have a watch in a bit

[Arthur Marshall]

8 hours ago, doratheexplorer said:

This will give you a good start on knots:

 

 

What they don't mention, is that you should send the line out to the bollard, ring or whatever, loop it round and come back to your boat to tie the knot on the bollard on your boat.

 

Reasons: 

 

1.  It's tidier, the remaining rope will be on your boat, not strewn over the towpath to be trodden on or pissed on by dogs.

2.  You should be able to re-tie your lines while on the boat.  If there's a major storm and you have to go onto the towpath to re-tie your lines, there's a risk that the boat could be blown away without you.

3.  Kids are less likely to mess with your knots and untie them if the knots are on the boat.

I've been meaning to learn that one for twenty years. I only know one knot. Time for another...

[Ianws]

Similarish knot here from Willow Wren. Thay have another video showing knots for a t stud. 

 

[nicknorman]

I’ve been boating for 50+ years and on the canals, I always use a clove hitch. Incredibly quick and easy, simple, doesn’t  take up all the space on the dolly etc etc. Yes it does have a downside which is that it can be difficult to undo under tension, but we are talking about mooring on the canals, not some raging torrent or with enormous waves. I am always highly amused by the very fancy and complicated knots and general tying up arrangements seen on some people’s boats. Never mind, I suppose it keeps them out of trouble and gives them something to feel superior about!

[MtB]

10 hours ago, nicknorman said:

I’ve been boating for 50+ years and on the canals, I always use a clove hitch. Incredibly quick and easy, simple, doesn’t  take up all the space on the dolly etc etc. Yes it does have a downside which is that it can be difficult to undo under tension, but we are talking about mooring on the canals, not some raging torrent or with enormous waves. I am always highly amused by the very fancy and complicated knots and general tying up arrangements seen on some people’s boats. Never mind, I suppose it keeps them out of trouble and gives them something to feel superior about!

 

 

Same here. I was shown how to form a loop and drop it over a bollard, then do it again to make the clove hitch within days of getting my first boat age about 22, and have enjoyed using it ever since.

 

Once one gets the hang of it, it takes about two seconds to clove-hitch onto a bollard and lets one feel incredibly smug to drop the loops on and walk away. Also more smugness comes from seeing certain other boaters mucking about for minutes on end mooring with unnecessarily complicated knots, sometimes referred to as "macrame mooring". 

 

What still defeats me though, is how to reliably and securely tie to a ring in two seconds flat. 

[David Mack]

1 hour ago, MtB said:

What still defeats me though, is how to reliably and securely tie to a ring in two seconds flat. 

If your rope is long enough, take a bite of the rope through the ring, then drop it over the tee stud or bollard on the boat, pull the rope tight and tie off on the tee stud/bollard.

[doratheexplorer]

3 hours ago, MtB said:

 

 

Same here. I was shown how to form a loop and drop it over a bollard, then do it again to make the clove hitch within days of getting my first boat age about 22, and have enjoyed using it ever since.

 

Once one gets the hang of it, it takes about two seconds to clove-hitch onto a bollard and lets one feel incredibly smug to drop the loops on and walk away. Also more smugness comes from seeing certain other boaters mucking about for minutes on end mooring with unnecessarily complicated knots, sometimes referred to as "macrame mooring". 

 

What still defeats me though, is how to reliably and securely tie to a ring in two seconds flat. 

A clove hitch is ok but a canalmans or lightermans hitch is better because it doesn't get any harder to undo under tension.  Nick's missing the point about raging torrents.  Much more likely for lines to come under tension when levels unexpectedly fall (or rise).  I much prefer to know I can release any tension in the line no matter how much tension there is.

 

I suggest you might learn the proper hitch.

 

Unless you have a ring on your boat, you shouldn't tieing on to one anyway.

Edited November 9, 2021 by doratheexplorer

[Rob-M]

14 hours ago, nicknorman said:

I’ve been boating for 50+ years and on the canals, I always use a clove hitch. Incredibly quick and easy, simple, doesn’t  take up all the space on the dolly etc etc. Yes it does have a downside which is that it can be difficult to undo under tension, but we are talking about mooring on the canals, not some raging torrent or with enormous waves. I am always highly amused by the very fancy and complicated knots and general tying up arrangements seen on some people’s boats. Never mind, I suppose it keeps them out of trouble and gives them something to feel superior about!

I've had to cut through a line to remove it where someone had used a clove hitch and it pulled so tight it was impossible to untie.  A lightermans hitch would not have had this problem.

[IanD]

4 minutes ago, Rob-M said:

I've had to cut through a line to remove it where someone had used a clove hitch and it pulled so tight it was impossible to untie.  A lightermans hitch would not have had this problem.

 

I've had a boat pulled over sideways this way by the centre line (no, I didn't tie it up...) going up a wide 2-lock staircase, no way would it release -- had to cut the rope, cue a crash and swearing from my wife inside as a full bottle of gin fell off the worktop and smashed as the boat rocked. What made it worse was that a bottle of chilli sauce went with it, so there was no chance of retrieving anything useful from the mess... 😞

[nicknorman]

4 hours ago, doratheexplorer said:

A clove hitch is ok but a canalmans or lightermans hitch is better because it doesn't get any harder to undo under tension.  Nick's missing the point about raging torrents.  Much more likely for lines to come under tension when levels unexpectedly fall (or rise).  I much prefer to know I can release any tension in the line no matter how much tension there is.

 

I suggest you might learn the proper hitch.

 

Unless you have a ring on your boat, you shouldn't tieing on to one anyway.

 

Yea could happen,  but it hasn't over the last 50 years. Probably because we tend to moor in midland canals where one is never more than a few inches from the bottom.

Yes I might get around to learning a new knot, but I have higher priorities eg I really need to get around to installing the point defence cannons just in case any meteorites are on trajectory to hit the roof.

[MtB]

5 hours ago, doratheexplorer said:

Unless you have a ring on your boat, you shouldn't tieing on to one anyway.

 

Eh? 

 

CRT provide mooring rings all over the place, including on my home mooring. 

[doratheexplorer]

15 hours ago, MtB said:

 

Eh? 

 

CRT provide mooring rings all over the place, including on my home mooring. 

You should loop through the ring and tie off on the dolly or t-stud on your boat.  Don't try and tie onto a ring.  I would think that was obvious.

[MtB]

1 hour ago, doratheexplorer said:

You should loop through the ring and tie off on the dolly or t-stud on your boat.  Don't try and tie onto a ring.  I would think that was obvious.

 

Missing my point by a country mile.

 

My point was, this takes more than the two seconds it take to tie a clove hitch on a bollard. 

[IanD]

Just now, MtB said:

 

Missing my point by a country mile.

 

My point was, this takes more than the two seconds it take to tie a clove hitch on a bollard. 

What does a lighterman's hitch take -- maybe four seconds? 😉

[MtB]

1 minute ago, IanD said:

What does a lighterman's hitch take -- maybe four seconds? 😉

 

Also missing my point by the same country mile, which was how to tie to a ring in two seconds flat, like one can to a bollard.

[IanD]

3 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Also missing my point by the same country mile, which was how to tie to a ring in two seconds flat, like one can to a bollard.

Aren't you also missing the point by a country mile, which is don't tie off to the ring, loop back and tie off to the stud? 😉

 

There are knots which will tie off securely to a ring, but they're neither quick or simple, so you're asking for the impossible...

Edited November 10, 2021 by IanD

[MtB]

Just now, IanD said:

Aren't you also missing the point by a country mile, which is don't tie off to the ring, loop back and tie off to the stud? 😉

 

Which in turn, takes more than the two seconds it takes to a bollard. 

 

It was just a throwaway comment I made about how it takes longer to tie off to a ring than a bollard, and suddenly everyone is on me telling me A) No it doesn't, then B ) offering ways that take longer! 

[David Mack]

If its just a temporary tieing up, such as at a water point or waiting for a lock, I would take a bight of rope through the ring and then tie one or two half hitches of the bight around the standing part. That doesn't take more than a couple of seconds.

[blackrose]

48 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Missing my point by a country mile.

 

My point was, this takes more than the two seconds it take to tie a clove hitch on a bollard. 

 

Are our lives really that time constrained that we need to do everything in 2 seconds?