Photos of bilge / engine bay - opinions welcome...

[NB DW2]

Hi,

 

I viewed a keenly priced, relative to today's market anyhow, 2005 trad stern boat earlier today, with the shell and fitouts both from very respectable names.  The boat's looking a little tired and dated but nothing too bad.  It's a standard layout and all seems well in terms of there being no sign of water staining or evidence of damp anywhere (insde of cupboards were fine, ply under the carpet in the saloon and bed area were bone dry).  However, the boat did smell a little musty but put this down to it sitting unheated for a while.  It's a leisure boat sat in a marina and don't think it's had much use recently due to restrictions.

 

I lifted the boards from the engine and found what's pictured in the below.  I assume this is why the boat does smell a little musty.  There's some water in the bilge below the engine, nothing too horrendous, but looks like there's lots of surface water / condensation, most of which closest to the cabin (picture of Webasto is the area closest to the cabin) and a few feet from the bed.  I'm not sure it's a recent thing judging by the white mold and the ply lining looks like it's absorbing the water as it's becoming discoloured/darker at the bottom as it rises.  Maybe the lining under the hatch is a tell tale sign of where the water is coming in from.

 

How bad's this?  Would it put you off?  As I say, it does smell fairly musty but there's no evidence of water staining or damp elsewhere in the boat..

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

There does look to be quite a lot of rot around the bottom of all of the boards / bulkheads shown - maybe of greater importance is alongside the Webasto. Is that wood 'scorched' ?

[Tracy D'arth]

Its 16 years old. Probably been little used and not ventilated. Slept on and left without getting well warmed and vented.' The moist air condenses on any surface when the temperature falls below the dew point.

 

It looks like typical neglected cold surface condensation which has puddled on the floor. Trying to keep condensation in the unheated stern around the weed hatch in check is almost impossible in out damp cold climate.

 

It is repairable without much effort if it worries you, It would not panic me, I pump about a gallon of condensation out of my boat's stern every month in autumn/winter.

But then I don't have any timber lining to soak up the water in the areas that suffer frequent condensation. Taking the timber lining down to the floor is probably foolish.

 

 

Edited February 20, 2021 by Tracy D'arth

[NB DW2]

Thanks.  Yep, more rot than I'd like.  The way the panel under the hatch has gone bad, and inside of the cabin under the boards, I don't suppose happened over a weekend.  Such a shame it's been left for so long without being checked on.

 

I can't tell whether that's scorching or wood staining/rot.  Having said that, the rest of the photos show white mold and water staining quite differently to what you've picked up.  I don't know if that's the original location of the Webasto.

[blackrose]

Isn't the rot at the bottom of the boards simply due to the fact that someone has fitted them right down to the wet baseplate? Is that's what we're seeing, I can't quite tell?

[NB DW2]

They're touching metal, yes.  Not quite the base plate as the area shown is around gunwale height.

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, NB DW2 said:

I can't tell whether that's scorching or wood staining/rot.  Having said that, the rest of the photos show white mold and water staining quite differently to what you've picked up.  I don't know if that's the original location of the Webasto.

 

 

If you decide to go further with the boat I'd suggest that the mounting of the Webasto be looked at. 

Worse case is that could be scorching and that could be after just a short period of running, what would it be like if it was running 24/7 ?

 

If you are having a surveyor, it may be worth asking for special attention in that area (Surveyors do not always see everything that should be seen).

[David Mack]

That engine space looks to be directly connected to the main cabin space, so moist air from cooking, showers, breathing etc. will find it's way in there, and with all that uninsulated steel you will get plenty of condensation. That has clearly wicked up the side panels that sit directly on the uxter plate and allowed staining and rot. Even where the timber lining is insulated, it will still be cold and so subject to condensation.

The underside of the slide probably has no insulation behind, so is a vulnerable spot for condensation. This is a common problem. Sometimes can be remedied by a thin layer of insulation behind the plywood if there is space, or use cork tiles rather than ply.

[NB DW2]

Thanks all.

 

 

[Jen-in-Wellies]

15 hours ago, NB DW2 said:

shell and fitouts both from very respectable names.

Looks like a Louis and Joshua fit out. They usually used Jonathan Wilson shells. Both generally very good. Some friends had one and I helped them with engine servicing, so the style is familiar. This isn't their old boat though. That boat was lived on by them and the previous owners from new. Didn't have the damp damage you're seeing. Didn't have a diesel heater and did have a cauliflower that helped keep the area warm.

Edited February 21, 2021 by Jen-in-Wellies

[robtheplod]

Not sure if this helps... our Webasto also had scorch marks on the board and the survey recommended getting this addressed so the boat yard fitted a covering:

 

[Bee]

This is just good old condensation caused by inadequate insulation and poor ventilation. I think even that red carpet seems to have droplets on it. Many boats will have this if you look carefully enough and many houses will have damp corners - and they have walls two bricks thick, usually a cavity and a layer of plaster or plasterboard + they are not usually sat in perishing cold water. To be honest the solution for some of these areas is to cut out all the wood, go right back to the insulation, if its f/glass wool remove it and fill the entire area full of sprayfoam then nail the whole area shut and forget about it. In my experience some problems on boats re. condensation are not fixable. As for the Webasto it needs to be accessible and probably live near the engine with all the other machinery.

A general point about boat fitting, many boats are fitted by skilled, competent, clever people who are streets ahead of anything I or many of us could ever do but that does not mean that they understand the limitations of what works and what doesn't. Clever and sophisticated sells boats these days but boats are hostile to delicate stuff. Its partly the 'fault' of buyers seduced by glossy brochures and that awful word 'luxury'. 

[Sea Dog]

Much relevant advice above already, so I'll simply add:

 

Congratulations on a) looking, and b) seeing - you're already 2 laps ahead of most buyers!

 

[LadyG]

You could send us a link and we'll pick it to pieces, on not..... 

[NB DW2]

Thanks again, all.  I don't want to put a link to the boat, it's maybe a little unfair to the owners.  But the comments above were on the money in terms of what the boat was.

 

I've been looking for a while now and posted a good number of times under the username 'NB DW', but managed to forget the password to the account and the password to the email address I setup too.  Never mind.

 

Although I've had a boat before, I'm still pretty green to it all hence all the questions, but not so green as to be seduced by a nice interior and have some idea of where I might need to look (and smell).  And definitely not so green that I don't see today's asking prices as reasonable for the most part.

 

I've been looking for a while now but often stuff sells before I get to view or is so unreasonable that I just don't bother.  I was first in line to see this last week but decided against it.  Everything I could want in a boat, with a decent fitout and shell.  But the paintwork isn't in order and they weren't for budging on the asking price.  It sold the same day I was due to view and to somebody who's skipped a survey.  I appreciate this approach means I'll probably continue to miss out on more boats but I'm sure I'll strike lucky at some point.  Plus maybe demand will die down a little due to the news around vaccine being available to everyone by July if the virus has been some of the reason behind the surge in demand.

 

It's only my opinion but just because that's the asking, and often selling, price doesn't mean it's good value or one that I'd be prepared to pay.  Much the same as houses at the moment.

 

Two viewings lined up tomorrow.  I'm first in line to see one at a less mainstream broker so has probably been missed by some.

 

 

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, NB DW2 said:

Thanks again, all.  I don't want to put a link to the boat, it's maybe a little unfair to the owners.  But the comments above were on the money in terms of what the boat was.

 

I've been looking for a while now and posted a good number of times under the username 'NB DW', but managed to forget the password to the account and the password to the email address I setup too.  Never mind.

 

Although I've had a boat before, I'm still pretty green to it all hence all the questions, but not so green as to be seduced by a nice interior and have some idea of where I might need to look (and smell).  And definitely not so green that I don't see today's asking prices as reasonable for the most part.

 

I've been looking for a while now but often stuff sells before I get to view or is so unreasonable that I just don't bother.  I was first in line to see this last week but decided against it.  Everything I could want in a boat, with a decent fitout and shell.  But the paintwork isn't in order and they weren't for budging on the asking price.  It sold the same day I was due to view and to somebody who's skipped a survey.  I appreciate this approach means I'll probably continue to miss out on more boats but I'm sure I'll strike lucky at some point.  Plus maybe demand will die down a little due to the news around vaccine being available to everyone by July if the virus has been some of the reason behind the surge in demand.

 

It's only my opinion but just because that's the asking, and often selling, price doesn't mean it's good value or one that I'd be prepared to pay.  Much the same as houses at the moment.

 

Two viewings lined up tomorrow.  I'm first in line to see one at a less mainstream broker so has probably been missed by some.

 

 

 

 

That boat is not to long away from needing a repaint or at the very least the 'hand rails' painting. They are very worn or the original job wasn't particularly done well.

[NB DW2]

2 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

 

That boat is not to long away from needing a repaint or at the very least the 'hand rails' painting. They are very worn or the original job wasn't particularly done well.

 

I agree and that's what stopped me viewing it.  It's the original paint, it's 15 years old and in need of a repaint.  I've seen other boats of a similar age, with original paint, in much better condition.  Shame.  The broker had said the condition of the paint was reflected in the £68k asking price.  I'm not sure I agree!

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, NB DW2 said:

 

I agree and that's what stopped me viewing it.  It's the original paint, it's 15 years old and in need of a repaint.  I've seen other boats of a similar age, with original paint, in much better condition.  Shame.  The broker had said the condition of the paint was reflected in the £68k asking price.  I'm not sure I agree!

 

They are only really saying that in order that people don't try to lower the offer price to reflect the work needed. I know it's a sellers market at the mo but I'd want a good few grand knocking off that price.

 

We had to substantially lower the asking price of our boat as the red paint was badly faded and the hand rails were similarly worn if not worse than those.. Looking again the cabin sides look badly faded and beyond long term rescue with a 'cut and polish'. Whoever buys that boat needs to set aside something substantial if they want it to look as good as the interior does, which is actually very nice.

[robtheplod]

I have friends who have a narrowboat which is in a similar condition. They like the faded/aged outside look as it stops people nosing as to what's inside. Bit like having a 'rat' look car with a V8 under the bonnet! 

[blackrose]

20 hours ago, NB DW2 said:

.

 

Two viewings lined up tomorrow.  I'm first in line to see one at a less mainstream broker so has probably been missed by some.

 

 

 

 

That interior is very nice, apart from the stove being in the wrong place. They go to all that trouble of designing a beautiful interior but still make this fundamental error.