C&RT say don't empty your compost toilet in our bins.

[IanD]

11 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

This morning.  Why?

One of the grandchildren needed a nappy change so I did it.

No it isnt. It is about waste transfer laws and effect on picking lines. The CRT have got the same issue with nappies. According to your input (and Alans) the crt will be in breach of the transfer laws if more than one boat puts their weeks load of nappies on one bin. I cant see that being right.

 

Not taken my bet then? That says a lot.

 

Which bet is that? And what relevance has it to whether you're right or wrong?

 

If nappies in waste bins were a problem for waste disposal, CaRT would indeed have a similar problem with them to wrongly-used composting toilets.

 

But they don't have a problem with them. They do have a problem with bag'n'binners like you, especially now there are more of them.

 

No matter how many times you try and bring the argument back to nappies, this fact isn't going to change.

 

Nappies in CaRT (or any other) bins are fine. Bag'n'binners aren't fine any more, there are too many of them, and they're all full of sh*t.

 

Like it or not, sooner or later theyyou're going to have to find another poo disposal method.

Edited February 18, 2021 by IanD

[haggis]

41 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

The problem here is you dont understand what the stuff is like as you have never seen it - as per 99% of other people here (including the main protaganists on here). That's not a criticism but a lot of peeps are making comments without actual data.

 

If it is double bagged and inside another bag it is very unlikely to spread over anything else. It is not mobile enough. It is far less likely to contaminate other bits of the bin than a bag of nappies. Also it doesnt smell. It really is not the 'offensive' problem that certain people here make out in the CRT bin.

Whilst you are 'worried' about the CRT bin, others are worried about where it goes and what happens when it gets there. Again for transport it is better than the a bag of nappies - so for one boat a week, think one boat with a baby for a week (and then think of the hire boats!!). There is no difference and I await Alans response if he has a load of caravans in the summer with babies? Once at Biffa's depot, it is not touched by human hand as per the other 5 million nappies PER DAY! Again 99% of peeps here have never seen a picking line (or dont understand they exist) so do not understand what is going on in the real world.

I agree, I have never seen the stuff which composters are dumping in bins , thank goodness but from what they say, the container which collects the poo is emptied into a bag for dumping and what is in the container will contain a few days human output (including that days) so it will not have started composting. OK, I understand that a drying agent is added but I don't think it will dry the poo as quickly as , perhaps a few hours. I don't think anyone poos dry poos, they all have a "wetness" .

 

You can argue till the cows come home with what appears to be your favourite topic - nappies, but I like others can see no  relevance between human poo and nappies being relative to the current topic so perhaps it is time to move on from nappies ?  .

 

I fully expect to get a reply which casts doubt on my understanding etc but that doesn't bother me as you are equally dismissive to everyone who states their opinion on this topic. 

 

Haggis 

[Jerra]

2 minutes ago, IanD said:

But they don't have a problem with them. They do have a problem with bag'n'binners like you.

Tut Tut Ian!   Dr Bob has said a number of times he does not bag and bin so it is a bit unfair to refer to him as such.

[IanD]

2 minutes ago, Jerra said:

Tut Tut Ian!   Dr Bob has said a number of times he does not bag and bin so it is a bit unfair to refer to him as such.

[edited to correct this] So why is he arguing about it and claiming it should continue to be allowed?

Edited February 18, 2021 by IanD

[Jerra]

Just now, IanD said:

So why is he arguing about it and claiming it should continue to be allowed?

Probably because he doesn't object to it and doesn't see it as a problem.   I think you will find a number of those defending the practice don't have "composting" toilets.

[Dr Bob]

2 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

Which bet is that? And what relevance has it to whether you're right or wrong?

 

If nappies in waste bins were a problem for waste disposal, CaRT would indeed have a similar problem with them to wrongly-used composting toilets.

 

But they don't have a problem with them. They do have a problem with bag'n'binners like you.

 

No matter how many times you try and bring the argument back to nappies, this fact isn't going to change.

 

Nappies in CaRT bins are fine. Bag'n'binners aren't any more, there are too many of them, and they're all full of sh*t.

 

Like it or not, sooner or later you're going to have to find another poo disposal method.

Totally avoided the main point - for the tenth time.

 

This is about putting 'offensive' waste in a CRT bin and that being transported to a waste site and that being sorted on a picking line.

 

The definition of 'offensive' waste is the important thing. The contents of a disposable nappy, the contents of adult incontenence pads, or the contents of a dry toilet.

Nappies in crt bins is a problem if the content of dry toilets are. Peeps here also talk of 'its bad for Biffa'. It is the same issues as nappies.

Far far more offensive waste is put in waste dumpsters, not necessarily CRT ones as there arent many babies here, but the biffa/disposal problem is the same for nappies or dry toilets......and it is obviously not a problem for nappies so isnt the problem it is for our toilets.

 

You missed the bet? So you dont bother reading others posts then! .....but that was obvious. All talk and no listen.

Just like Donald.

 

 

[haggis]

6 minutes ago, Jerra said:

Tut Tut Ian!   Dr Bob has said a number of times he does not bag and bin so it is a bit unfair to refer to him as such.

I seem to remember (but I might be wrong again!) that Dr Bob said when he installed the compost loo that when they were on their mooring they would take the stuff home to compost but when cruising they would bag and bin in tiger bags. So half and half a good composter ? 

 

haggis

[Jerra]

Just now, haggis said:

I seem to remember (but I might be wrong again!) that Dr Bob said when he installed the compost loo that when they were on their mooring they would take the stuff home to compost but when cruising they would bag and bin in tiger bags. So half and half a good composter ? 

 

haggis

That sounds like a good composter and someone who obeys the law if he uses tiger bags.  However in at least two recent posts he has said he doesn't bag and bin.   People are allowed to change what they do.

[IanD]

11 minutes ago, Jerra said:

Probably because he doesn't object to it and doesn't see it as a problem.   I think you will find a number of those defending the practice don't have "composting" toilets.

 

The problem is that he's defending it on the grounds that (a) it's not really that offensive (b) nappies are just as bad or worse.

 

Arguing about these is pointless (which is why I called "dead cat") because it's not the issue; the problem for CaRT is that regardless of the offensive/nappy debate, CaRT can't continue to allow an increasing number of boaters to install composting toilets and bin'n'bag the waste instead of composting it. If they do they'll be unable to get the waste disposed of through normal channels and at normal cost.

 

They don't have many options here, the easiest one is to close all waste disposal facilities but I don't think many people would be happy with that.

 

I think the only remaining questions are how long CaRT will take to ban composting toilets on boats (like they did with sea toilets), how they'll enforce it, and whether they'll allow "proper" users like Peter to carry on using them or just ban them outright.

 

But having raised the issue -- presumably with Biffa -- they can't do nothing for very long...

Edited February 18, 2021 by IanD

[peterboat]

18 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

This morning.  Why?

One of the grandchildren needed a nappy change so I did it.

No it isnt. It is about waste transfer laws and effect on picking lines. The CRT have got the same issue with nappies. According to your input (and Alans) the crt will be in breach of the transfer laws if more than one boat puts their weeks load of nappies in one bin. I cant see that being right.

 

Not taken my bet then? That says a lot.

Totally relevant.

The 7Kg is offensive waste, not poo. You are trying to convince peeps that nappies contain a small fraction of the offensive stuff compared to dry toilets which is clearly untrue. Donald tried to do that ....and failed.

Nobody is listening Bob, the fact that you tell them you are buying plastic from these picking lines should tell them that you might know the rules? I get you wee and poo is the same thing (I have changed grandsons nappy it was grim how could someone so small produce so much poo? Beats me, they also arnt listening that your marina has a composting bin for said waste obviously that's both poo and vegetable matter seems like a great idea nearly as good as my compost heap ?

[Dr Bob]

1 minute ago, Jerra said:

That sounds like a good composter and someone who obeys the law if he uses tiger bags.  However in at least two recent posts he has said he doesn't bag and bin.   People are allowed to change what they do.

I dont bag and bin at the moment. It goes in a compost bin. I've only had the toilet a month.

Haggis is right. When we are out and about with no compost bin to put it in (ie trips over 8 weeks - I can store 8 weeks worth easily to go into the compost bin when we get back) then it will be bagged properly and put in a bin.

 

[peterboat]

2 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

The problem is that he's defending it on the grounds that (a) it's not really that offensive (b) nappies are just as bad or worse.

 

Arguing about these is pointless (which is why I called "dead cat") because it's not the issue; the problem for CaRT is that regardless of the offensive/nappy debate, CaRT can't continue to allow an increasing number of boaters to install composting toilets and bin'n'bag the waste instead of composting it. If they do they'll be unable to get the waste disposed of through normal channels and at normal cost.

 

They don't have many options here, the easiest one is to close all waste disposal facilities but I don't think many people would be happy with that.

 

I think the only remaining questions are how long CaRT will take to ban composting toilets on boats, how they'll enforce it, and whether they'll allow "proper" users like Peter to carry on using them or just ban them outright.

 

But having raised the issue -- presumably with Biffa -- they can't do nothing for very long...

They have said that they are thinking of putting in composting bins Ian  so they are taking it seriously 

[tree monkey]

5 minutes ago, Jerra said:

People are allowed to change what they do.

Nahhh don't be daft, even if a mind was changed by the posts on the forum one of the forum dementors would trawl through every historic post and list them in order and demand why you said this on that date

 

 

[haggis]

2 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

I dont bag and bin at the moment. It goes in a compost bin. I've only had the toilet a month.

Haggis is right. When we are out and about with no compost bin to put it in (ie trips over 8 weeks - I can store 8 weeks worth easily to go into the compost bin when we get back) then it will be bagged properly and put in a bin.

 

That's great that marinas are starting to put in composting bins. If that becomes the norm then the problem would go away if some composters stopped bagging and binning. 

and thank you for not mentioning the N word ? 

Haggis

[IanD]

18 minutes ago, peterboat said:

They have said that they are thinking of putting in composting bins Ian  so they are taking it seriously 

Yes, IIRC as a trial in one place (London?)

 

But to allow continued use of composting toilets they'd have to roll this out over the whole system, together with collection and storage, as described earlier. Not going to be cheap to install and run.

 

Does anyone seriously think that CaRT will spend that much money to keep a tiny minority happy (we still don't know how many there are, but I expect it's a tiny fraction of the 35000 boats) when it's far easier, quicker and cheaper just to ban them?

 

Of course if they do spend the money, the much bigger majority of non-composting boaters will then protest about CaRT wasting money to help out a few boaters who ignored their advice ("should be composted") instead of spending it on essential work on the system that benefits everybody.

 

I'd love to be a fly on the wall when CaRT discuss this, but I think it's obvious what they'll do...

Edited February 18, 2021 by IanD

[Dr Bob]

2 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Nobody is listening Bob, the fact that you tell them you are buying plastic from these picking lines should tell them that you might know the rules? I get you wee and poo is the same thing (I have changed grandsons nappy it was grim how could someone so small produce so much poo? Beats me, they also arnt listening that your marina has a composting bin for said waste obviously that's both poo and vegetable matter seems like a great idea nearly as good as my compost heap ?

I think it is quite startling that I seem to be the only one on here that is involved in waste processing and recycling - with our plastic recycling companies, and I know the waste processors quite well, yet everyone condems this solid waste. We buy 1000s of tons per year of mixed rigid plastics and its not the contamination from dry toilets we are worried about.  People really need to wake up and see what goes on in the world.

The nappy I changed this morning was horrid. Clothspeg on the nose stuff. It stuck to my fingers. Yuk! Its in the bin now. That could soon be in a dumpster if we were out on the boat. Horrid thought. Where on earth do peeps think nappies go?

[IanD]

16 minutes ago, haggis said:

That's great that marinas are starting to put in composting bins. If that becomes the norm then the problem would go away if some composters stopped bagging and binning. 

and thank you for not mentioning the N word ? 

Haggis

Marinas putting in compost bins would be great, but unless there are enough of them anyone not close to one will still bag'n'bin it, leaving CaRT with the same problem everywhere except near the few compost-enabled marinas.

13 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

I think it is quite startling that I seem to be the only one on here that is involved in waste processing and recycling - with our plastic recycling companies, and I know the waste processors quite well, yet everyone condems this solid waste. We buy 1000s of tons per year of mixed rigid plastics and its not the contamination from dry toilets we are worried about.  People really need to wake up and see what goes on in the world.

The nappy I changed this morning was horrid. Clothspeg on the nose stuff. It stuck to my fingers. Yuk! Its in the bin now. That could soon be in a dumpster if we were out on the boat. Horrid thought. Where on earth do peeps think nappies go?

They go in the bin, and however unpleasant they are waste disposal companies are used to dealing with them, and they don't change the waste classification category.

 

Waste bags (also not always pleasant) from composting toilets shouldn't, they aren't, and they do.

Edited February 18, 2021 by IanD

[LadyG]

When I had a house there was bin for dry sortable waste, one for compost, one for glass and one for landfill.

The CRT don't have one for compost, it will not be a viable system there is no way to stop idiots putting plastic in to compost bins for a start. 

The wet waste goes in to landfill, it is not put on a picking line. 

[redwing]

This is on their twitter feed 

 

Canal & River Trust Boating

 

@CRTBoating

We are actively seeking a resolution including working with boaters to find a sustainable long term solution.

8:00 AM · Feb 18, 2021

[Machpoint005]

2 hours ago, Jerra said:

The 5 year average for the number of births per year according to the ONS is 756,862.   If we assume an average of 3 nappies per day that is about 2.27 million nappies per day just for kids up to age 1.   I don't think "millions" is an exaggeration.

 

Significant number of parents don't use disposable nappies. I don't know what proportion. 

 

[Jerra]

3 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

 

Significant number of parents don't use disposable nappies. I don't know what proportion. 

 

They did when I had kids but we were even then in the minority noone my daughters know uses terry nappies.   I doubt it is a significant number, sadly.

 

Edit to add the website "madeformums" suggests as few as 5 % use reusable nappies.

Edited February 18, 2021 by Jerra

[IanD]

5 minutes ago, redwing said:

This is on their twitter feed 

 

Canal & River Trust Boating

 

@CRTBoating

We are actively seeking a resolution including working with boaters to find a sustainable long term solution.

8:00 AM · Feb 18, 2021

Canal & River Trust Boating

We are sorry but the latest advice is that we cannot accept this type of waste in our bins. With the increasing popularity of composting toilets, we are hoping to provide facilities for solid waste from composting loos in the future. 1/2

 

If they can find one (that doesn't cost them a lot of money), everybody will be happy ?

 

I suspect that no amount of hoping will untie this particular Gordian knot though. Maybe they can ask a unicorn to take it away?

Edited February 18, 2021 by IanD

[LadyG]

1 minute ago, redwing said:

This is on their twitter feed 

 

Canal & River Trust Boating

 

@CRTBoating

We are actively seeking a resolution including working with boaters to find a sustainable long term solution.

8:00 AM · Feb 18, 2021

I don't know if anyone one here has been actively consulted by the CRT, maybe they could post their proposals for acceptable, hygienic, and sustainable disposal. 

I fear they will not find a sustainable solution, long or short term. Because there is none. 

[IanD]

3 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I don't know if anyone one here has been actively consulted by the CRT, maybe they could post their proposals for acceptable, hygienic, and sustainable disposal. 

I fear they will not find a sustainable solution, long or short term. Because there is none. 

Hey, look on the bright side -- there might be one, it's just that nobody's thought of it yet?

 

[I did ask if anyone had any realistic workable proposals on how to do this *ages* ago, but this was ignored in favour of arguing why smelly nappies meant that bag'n'bin was OK]

 

Just like how to run cars on water, or have electrical power so cheap that it won't have to be metered...

Edited February 18, 2021 by IanD

[Jerra]

1 minute ago, IanD said:

Hey, look on the bright side -- there might be one, it's just that nobody's thought of it yet?

 

Just like how to run cars on water, or have electrical power so cheap that it won't have to be metered...

When I was little Calder Hall promised just that.   It worked out well didn't it.