C&RT say don't empty your compost toilet in our bins.

[IanD]

17 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

But who is going to rake about in it to remove the plastic bags and other unwanted items, not a job I would take on

 

We need to bring back nightsoil men and gongfermors -- maybe CaRT could subcontract this out to Harry King? ?

Edited February 19, 2021 by IanD

[Up-Side-Down]

3 minutes ago, IanD said:

gongfermors

I do so love the English language and gain great pleasure from looking up new words (to me)! Thank you very much for this one Ian. To save others from consulting the Wiki:

 

Gong farmer (also gongfermor, gongfermour, gong-fayer, gong-fower or gong scourer) was a term that entered use in Tudor England to describe someone who dug out and removed human excrement from privies and cesspits. The word "gong" was used for both a privy and its contents. As the work was considered unclean and off-putting to the public, gong farmers were only allowed to work at night, hence they were sometimes known as nightmen. The waste they collected, known as night soil, had to be taken outside the city or town boundary or to official dumps for disposal.

1 minute ago, Up-Side-Down said:

I do so love the English language and gain great pleasure from looking up new words (to me)! Thank you very much for this one Ian. To save others from consulting the Wiki:

 

Gong farmer (also gongfermor, gongfermour, gong-fayer, gong-fower or gong scourer) was a term that entered use in Tudor England to describe someone who dug out and removed human excrement from privies and cesspits. The word "gong" was used for both a privy and its contents. As the work was considered unclean and off-putting to the public, gong farmers were only allowed to work at night, hence they were sometimes known as nightmen. The waste they collected, known as night soil, had to be taken outside the city or town boundary or to official dumps for disposal.

In fact as a contented user of a composted loo I might add gongfermor to my CV right away!

[IanD]

3 minutes ago, Up-Side-Down said:

I do so love the English language and gain great pleasure from looking up new words (to me)! Thank you very much for this one Ian. To save others from consulting the Wiki:

 

Gong farmer (also gongfermor, gongfermour, gong-fayer, gong-fower or gong scourer) was a term that entered use in Tudor England to describe someone who dug out and removed human excrement from privies and cesspits. The word "gong" was used for both a privy and its contents. As the work was considered unclean and off-putting to the public, gong farmers were only allowed to work at night, hence they were sometimes known as nightmen. The waste they collected, known as night soil, had to be taken outside the city or town boundary or to official dumps for disposal.

https://wiki.lspace.org/mediawiki/Harry_King

[Alan de Enfield]

7 minutes ago, Up-Side-Down said:

I do so love the English language and gain great pleasure from looking up new words (to me)! Thank you very much for this one Ian. To save others from consulting the Wiki:

 

Gong farmer (also gongfermor, gongfermour, gong-fayer, gong-fower or gong scourer) was a term that entered use in Tudor England to describe someone who dug out and removed human excrement from privies and cesspits. The word "gong" was used for both a privy and its contents. As the work was considered unclean and off-putting to the public, gong farmers were only allowed to work at night, hence they were sometimes known as nightmen. The waste they collected, known as night soil, had to be taken outside the city or town boundary or to official dumps for disposal.

 

In London it was loaded onto Nightsoil barges (They looked like some of the modern widebeams but with the lid cut off'), these barges went up the Thames out into the country, the 'spoil' was sold to the Farmers who used it to fertilise their fields, the resultant crops were then sold back to the Londoners.

Re-cycling at its best.

 

It was not just a 'London thing', it happened up-North as well.

 

The spoil was dumped out of the barges onto Canal wharves and local farmers invited to come and buy it.

 

 

Edited February 19, 2021 by Alan de Enfield

[ditchcrawler]

Until very recently sewage has been used on farmland.

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Until very recently sewage has been used on farmland.

 

 

Indeed, I think it was in this thread that I earlier said that was where 'the solids' from our sewage treatment plant went, changes in the law means we now have to pay a 'fortune' to have it shipped to the sewage works so it can be treated before going on the land.

 

Costs us around £350 per tanker load to have it removed. (2 tankers per time to empty it)

 

A contractor called "Septic Sid" (or Cesspool Sid) does it for us.

Edited February 19, 2021 by Alan de Enfield

[ditchcrawler]

57 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

Indeed, I think it was in this thread that I earlier said that was where 'the solids' from our sewage treatment plant went, changes in the law means we now have to pay a 'fortune' to have it shipped to the sewage works so it can be treated before going on the land.

 

Costs us around £350 per tanker load to have it removed. (2 tankers per time to empty it)

 

A contractor called "Septic Sid" (or Cesspool Sid) does it for us.

We have Kit the Shit for our septic tanks around here, I think its £130 a tank at the moment

[ditchcrawler]

I wonder what sized bag you would need to empty this one 

[GUMPY]

The toilet or the chap in the picture?

 

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, Loddon said:

The toilet or the chap in the picture?

 

bog off

[GUMPY]

4 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

bog off

??

[Alan de Enfield]

7 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

bog off

 

Well it is a 2-seater.

[Hudds Lad]

are those bite marks in the flue pipe?

[cuthound]

23 hours ago, Hudds Lad said:

are those bite marks in the flue pipe?

 

Reminds me of my first ever canal holiday on a UCC camping boat in 1973.

 

The boat had a chemical toilet in he bow, which you had to reverse onto.

 

On the back of the door was a small towel rail.

 

At some point during the trip a small, handwritten notice appeared next to the towel rail.

 

It read "Straining Bar - grip tightly between teeth in case of constipation"! ?

Edited February 21, 2021 by cuthound

[ditchcrawler]

Someone on Facebook has contacted C&RT on this point see below

 

Enquiry

Having read the recent release regarding composting waste disposal I was wondering whether the CRT have any likely timescale for the introduction of suitable disposal points for composted waste? I’m considering a composting toilet as an option but want to be sure I have somewhere to get rid of the waste.

Response

Hello Rick, thank you so much for bearing with us. I am so sorry for our delay in updating you. My colleague had passed on your suggestion but I'm afraid no timeframes can be provided at this time. The team will continue their considerations on the subject but, as there is no statutory duty on the Trust to provide customer service facilities and we are working with extremely reduced resources, this is not likely to be a quick fix.

As soon as there are news on the matter, these are likely to be transmitted through our Boater's Update but, in the meantime, if you are looking at a composting toilet, you would have to also look into how you could keep the waste on the boat for 12 months while it decomposes or, for alternative waste facilities away from the waterways.

I hope you understand but please contact back if there is anything else we can do for you.

[Arthur Marshall]

In other words  you produced it, it's your responsibility to deal with it properly.

[Alan de Enfield]

12 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

.....  if you are looking at a composting toilet, you would have to also look into how you could keep the waste on the boat for 12 months while it decomposes or, for alternative waste facilities away from the waterways.

 

 

That clears that up then.

If you decide to use a composting toilet, make sure you can properly compost it, we cannot help you.

 

 

All that is now going to happen is that those 'semi-composting boaters' will contiue to dump it in the Biffa bins, C&RT are taken to court, and for repeat offences will be looking at paying out up to £250,000 'a time'.

 

Licence fees increase, maintenance reduces even further.

 

Another example of how the minority affect the majority.

Edited February 23, 2021 by Alan de Enfield

[Arthur Marshall]

48 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

That clears that up then.

If you decide to use a composting toilet, make sure you can properly compost it, we cannot help you.

 

 

All that is now going to happen is that those 'semi-composting boaters' will contiue to dump it in the Biffa bins, C&RT are taken to court, and for repeat offences will be looking at paying out up to £250,000 'a time'.

 

Licence fees increase, maintenance reduces even further.

 

Another example of how the minority affect the majority.

More likely they'll just scrap the contract with Biffa and forget about providing bins. They don't have to, after all - no statutory duty to provide facilities. That's the implied threat, I think - water and elsan points are already vanishing.

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, Arthur Marshall said:

More likely they'll just scrap the contract with Biffa and forget about providing bins. They don't have to, after all - no statutory duty to provide facilities. That's the implied threat, I think - water and elsan points are already vanishing.

 

That is certainly an alternative option.

I dread to think of the state of the waterways if they do. - It'll be like a Gypsy camp.

[Rob-M]

I can see more rubbish facilities disappearing as I expect any repeatedly being used for bags of uncomposted waste will be closed down.  Probably the same for repeatedly blocked elsans.

Perhaps the future is marina provided facilities who charge per use.

[IanD]

9 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

More likely they'll just scrap the contract with Biffa and forget about providing bins. They don't have to, after all - no statutory duty to provide facilities. That's the implied threat, I think - water and elsan points are already vanishing.

That would be really fair, wouldn't it -- a few recaltricent bag'nbinners leading to CaRT removing waste disposal facilities from tens of thousands of boaters ?

 

Given the complete uproar this would cause -- as well as towpath fly tipping absolutely everywhere -- isn't it much more likely that CaRT will simply ban them, like sea toilets?

Edited February 23, 2021 by IanD

[LadyG]

8 minutes ago, IanD said:

That would be really fair, wouldn't it -- a few recaltricent bag'nbinners leading to CaRT removing waste disposal facilities from all boaters ?

 

Given the complete uproar this would cause -- as well as towpath fly tipping absolutely everywhere -- isn't it much more likely that CaRT will simply ban them, like sea toilets?

I can see that CRT would have had to insist on a black water disposal unit, but did they actually ban  sea cocks, surely some boats have both? I've seen a few barges that have sea cocks at Goole, and seem to open them from time to time!

Edited February 23, 2021 by LadyG

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, IanD said:

Given the complete uproar this would cause -- as well as towpath fly tipping absolutely everywhere -- isn't it much more likely that CaRT will simply ban them, like sea toilets?

 

 

We have had this discussion earlier - how do C&RT actually ban composting toilets ?

 

They haven't actually banned sea-toilets, just that sea-toilets must have their valve switched over to 'tank'.

 

C&RT cannot refuse to issue a licence based on the presence of a composting toilet as the only 3 criteria required are enschrined in law, the only possible route (I can envisage) is via the BSSC such that composting toilets are now not allowed under the the BSS section 9:2 Pollution control - sanitation systems.

 

BUT, the argument is that the BSS aim is to stop pollution in the waterway - NOT pollution via waste bins.

 

I don't see a simple way of banning them.

[Arthur Marshall]

The BSS seems to expand its remit every time I take a breath. And it's cost, obviously. No reason why it can't make compost bogs noncompliant - if you need an argument, it's that they are an insanitary danger to others. But CRT don't need to justify it, they've never done so before. There's no logic to half of it already. Unfair on the few genuine users, but that's never bothered them much, either.

[Momac]

A  sea toilet receives a BSS pass even if no holding tank is fitted.

On lumpy water boats The sea toilets  are always fitted with a sea cock .

 

The  environmental permitting regulations says discharge of sewage from vessels  into rivers is permitted.

This can only be over ruled by a bylaw such as applicable to the canals and some rivers.

 

 

A compositing toilet which has no means of discharging directly  to the water  is compliant with the BSS

 

 

 

The Environmental Permitting (England and Wales) Regulations 2016

• UK Statutory Instruments
• 2016 No. 1154
• SCHEDULE 21
• Paragraph 3

 

Therefore a composting toilet may be discharged to a river where no bylaw prevents it.

Edited February 23, 2021 by MartynG
..