Project: third age; living aboard

[barry pierce]

Just retired and have made living aboard a narrow boat my first project, having spent three years hiring and longer researching the idea - found this forum a valuable resource for understanding customs and technicalities, so thank you.   

Recently acquired a (2003) 52' semi-trad 'leisure boat' which is currently undergoing repaint and renewal/rectification work. I plan to reorganise the interior, including laying a slate floor, creating a walk-through shower-room, and re-siting the stove. The first job will be to remove ballast adjacent to the engine room bulkhead to lighten the rear end - she has five inches of water above the uxterplate and a draught at the skeg of 2 feet 5 inches. The photo suggests to me the boat is bow-up but the scuppers are only 4 inches above the water-line (the cabin door is raised 6 inches above the well-deck). Current displacement is 14.5 tonnes.

Opinions welcome!        

[Sea Dog]

Sounds to me like you're no duck egg Barry and already have a pretty good grasp of the situation. Slate floor is a surprise to me - if you're already having to remove ballast, wouldn't something a bit less dense be preferable?

 

Other than that, I'm disappointed that you seem to be moving that boat...

 

 

... with the fenders down!   

 

Best wishes for your refit.

 

[BEngo]

It will swim a lot better if the counter plate is on the waterline, or just (say an inch) immersed when the boat is stationary.  If it is too far out you may get wave slap when the wind is in the wrong direction.  The bow will also fall a little as the stern rises. Watch that your front door freeboard stays OK.    Whatever the static trim,  it will pull down some more at the back when under way. 

 

When you have adjusted the stern  ballast, there will be some rudder tube above water that wasn't.  Get a good coat or 4 of blacking on the newly exposed bits.

 

Slate floors can be quite heavy.  You may need some more ballast out of the front to maintain a 10 inch freeboard to the cabin doors at the bow.  Moving the stove is also likely to affect the trim, both lateral and longitudinal.  So will moving your gear on board.

 

  Moral: Make sure that you can still get at the ballast once you have laid the new floor.

 

Don't worry about a bit of nose up trim.  That is normal and helps the roof drain.  

 

 Finally, fit a Whale Gulper to the shower outlet.?

N

[mrsmelly]

There is some sort of unnecessary hole below the pointy end under water, I would have a plate welded over that.

[Sea Dog]

3 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

There is some sort of unnecessary hole below the pointy end under water, I would have a plate welded over that.

I certainly wouldn't want those silly bars on it - how's the torpedo gonna get out?

[LadyG]

I would think real slate is going to be expensive and cold. As the boat flexes, which it does all year round, the slate might crack, you cant lay it on concrete or it will submarine, but not re float. A solid floor like slate wil not only break the crockery, but is very tiring, and needs tlc.

 

I'd rather have solid real wood planks. 

There are lots of new floorings, I've heard Armtico is pretty good, all sorts of finishes in inluding slate or engineered wood lookalike . Nothing from B and Q in my experience, it looks great in the store, but ends up in landfill, real wood every time for me.

Edited November 10, 2020 by LadyG

[LadyG]

13 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

There is some sort of unnecessary hole below the pointy end under water, I would have a plate welded over that.

You mean that bit that will be bow thruster tube.

I'd make darn sure the tube has been blacked regularly, I'd get a give it a good hammer test, wire brush or grit blast or weld it over.

Edited November 10, 2020 by LadyG

[Tracy D'arth]

Remember water, diesel and poo tanks when adjusting trim. Coal is heavy too, is there a bath to put it in.

[Sea Dog]

37 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Remember water, diesel and poo tanks when adjusting trim. Coal is heavy too, is there a bath to put it in.

By the time you've humped all the coal through the boat and plonked it in the bath, won't the one thing you need more than ever be the bath?

 

[barry pierce]

1 hour ago, Sea Dog said:

Sounds to me like you're no duck egg Barry and already have a pretty good grasp of the situation. Slate floor is a surprise to me - if you're already having to remove ballast, wouldn't something a bit less dense be preferable?

 

Other than that, I'm disappointed that you seem to be moving that boat...

 

 

... with the fenders down!   

 

Best wishes for your refit.

 

That's what comes of years of reading this blog ?

Slate floor will extend over the whole cabin length and so the 0.25 tonne load will be dissipated

Wasn't involved with the loading of the boat (in Wiltshire) - pic was taken at Goole where she was put in the water. I did find out that the stern line had been left out on the stern ? - never mind about it being caught in the prop - it would have been the trailer's wheels

[barry pierce]

1 hour ago, BEngo said:

It will swim a lot better if the counter plate is on the waterline, or just (say an inch) immersed when the boat is stationary.  If it is too far out you may get wave slap when the wind is in the wrong direction.  The bow will also fall a little as the stern rises. Watch that your front door freeboard stays OK.    Whatever the static trim,  it will pull down some more at the back when under way. 

 

When you have adjusted the stern  ballast, there will be some rudder tube above water that wasn't.  Get a good coat or 4 of blacking on the newly exposed bits.

 

Slate floors can be quite heavy.  You may need some more ballast out of the front to maintain a 10 inch freeboard to the cabin doors at the bow.  Moving the stove is also likely to affect the trim, both lateral and longitudinal.  So will moving your gear on board.

 

  Moral: Make sure that you can still get at the ballast once you have laid the new floor.

 

Don't worry about a bit of nose up trim.  That is normal and helps the roof drain.  

 

 Finally, fit a Whale Gulper to the shower outlet.?

N

Thanks BEngo. I want to raise the stern by say 2-3 inches which will give me draught clearance for the Lancaster/Llangollen canals  and if the bow dips I will also be extracting ballast at the front of the cabin. Stove movement will affect lateral trim but I've got some compensating rearrangement of the interior - and access 'hole' to the base plate if needed.

Hull is being epoxy-blacked and hard-topped this week.  

[barry pierce]

1 hour ago, LadyG said:

I would think real slate is going to be expensive and cold. As the boat flexes, which it does all year round, the slate might crack, you cant lay it on concrete or it will submarine, but not re float. A solid floor like slate wil not only break the crockery, but is very tiring, and needs tlc.

 

I'd rather have solid real wood planks. 

There are lots of new floorings, I've heard Armtico is pretty good, all sorts of finishes in inluding slate or engineered wood lookalike . Nothing from B and Q in my experience, it looks great in the store, but ends up in landfill, real wood every time for me.

Hi LadyG. It would be laid on the original marine plywood which is current covered in B&Q lino & laminate. Take your point on flexing and hope I can compensate with a pliable bedding/grout. Will check out Armtico though - thks. 

[GUMPY]

Slate will be cold make sure you have decent slippers.

Our galley has tiled floor and that's cold enough in winter that I send the wife to make morning coffee and I stay in  bed.

In the kitcken/diner in the house we have Karndean flooring  looks great but is not cheap.

Edited November 10, 2020 by Loddon

[barry pierce]

1 hour ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Remember water, diesel and poo tanks when adjusting trim. Coal is heavy too, is there a bath to put it in.

Effluent tank is being removed (in favour of a composting toilet) which will help lift the stern. Coal will be kept in a tender.

Anyone give me a view on whether they think the boat is bow up? 

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, barry pierce said:

Coal will be kept in a tender.

A tender what ?

[mrsmelly]

4 minutes ago, barry pierce said:

Effluent tank is being removed (in favour of a composting toilet) which will help lift the stern. Coal will be kept in a tender.

Anyone give me a view on whether they think the boat is bow up? 

Doesnt look bow up to me? hard to tell out of the water though.

[Alan de Enfield]

Just now, mrsmelly said:

Doesnt look bow up to me? hard to tell out of the water though.

If the OP is planning to lower the bow he will need to install 'scupper-valves' or the bow will fill up.

[mrsmelly]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

If the OP is planning to lower the bow he will need to install 'scupper-valves' or the bow will fill up.

Thats probably the gas locked drainage? It would only put an inch or so in the gas locker.

[GUMPY]

10 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

A tender what ?

A tender behind.

 

 

 

 

If the water line isn't parallel with the rubbing strake its bow up

 

Edited November 10, 2020 by Loddon

[Alan de Enfield]

27 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Thats probably the gas locked drainage? It would only put an inch or so in the gas locker.

No - I'm looking at the scuppers (behind the forward side fender) currently 4" above the waterline.

[mrsmelly]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

No - I'm looking at the scuppers (behind the forward side fender) currently 4" above the waterline.

Blimey dropping it that far would be a bad move. 

[Jen-in-Wellies]

1 hour ago, barry pierce said:

Hi LadyG. It would be laid on the original marine plywood which is current covered in B&Q lino & laminate. Take your point on flexing and hope I can compensate with a pliable bedding/grout. Will check out Armtico though - thks. 

Welcome to the forum.

I have inch thick slate around and under the stove across the width of the boat for about 4' long. It is heavy stuff, but means I don't have to worry about hot embers falling out the stove when stoking up. These are laid on the ply floor with a flexible tile grout, suited to wood floor. The slate slabs are 2' x 1' and 2' x 2'. No cracking in over a decade of use, including splitting kindling on them with a hatchet! In the kitchen and bathroom there are ceramic tiles and these are cold. The slate isn't, but that is because there is a stove on top! You'll find the slate is cold underfoot in winter.

Definitely do the calculations on what the changes will do to the trim. Side to side is as important as overall draft and fore-aft. Don't underestimate the effect of your personal stuff.

Mine has one of those weird tubes too, but I've not found a chandlers that stock a suitable sized torpedo.

Jen

Edited November 10, 2020 by Jen-in-Wellies

[Sea Dog]

22 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Mine has one of those weird tubes too, but I've not found a chandlers that stock a suitable sized torpedo.

You can always go backwards and use them to deploy mines. If it turns out that some Muppet has stuck a bow thruster in there by mistake, you can have a sneaky button press and turn yourself into an absolute reversing god! 

[dmr]

2 foot 5 makes you a deeper boat but nothing to worry about. A lot of boats are about this deep including just about anything with a vintage engine. You will likely have no trouble on the Llangollen, CRT figures are always conservative. A deeper boat does have some handling advantages. Maybe get to know the boat first then take the ballast out bit by bit. I took a bit out of ours (2 foot 8 when the water tank is empty) and felt the handling went downhill a little.

What engine, prop, and gearbox ratio do you have?

A deep boat with a typical modern engine and smallish prop is not ideal but if you have a big prop you might be fine.

and what size is the water tank? If its unusually big then the back could easily go up and down by 2 or even 3 inches as the tank level changes.

 

...............Dave

[barry pierce]

4 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

If the OP is planning to lower the bow he will need to install 'scupper-valves' or the bow will fill up.

Thks Alan - that's a new one on me.