Ray T Posted March 12, 2021 Report Share Posted March 12, 2021 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Tam & Di said: You wrote "locker behind her" - do you mean behind her when she is steering? Technically that is called the aft peak, and the triangular top is the stern deck. I've heard boat people refer to it as 'the starn' but nothing more specific. Although a modern boat with a forward well deck will have drainage scuppers and possibly fitted with a non-return valve I've never encountered a drain in the hatches of a working butty - they'd be pretty much at water level when you're loaded. Tam Chatting to Mike earlier on this evening and he has confirmed that. Edited March 12, 2021 by Ray T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRLMK38 Posted March 12, 2021 Report Share Posted March 12, 2021 38 minutes ago, Tam & Di said: I have various construction drawings including a copy of 1/2" to 1 foot plans copied from GUCCC originals and it is marked prosaically as 'steerage cockpit', but boat people always referred to it as 'the hatches' as said. One of the drawings calls the shackle the 'hawser shackle', but the copy dated January 1936 for a large Yarwoods ('town' class) motor has them as 'Answer pin and shackle. On the odd occasion I've had cause to write the term I've written 'anser pin'. You wrote "locker behind her" - do you mean behind her when she is steering? Technically that is called the aft peak, and the triangular top is the stern deck. I've heard boat people refer to it as 'the starn' but nothing more specific. Although a modern boat with a forward well deck will have drainage scuppers and possibly fitted with a non-return valve I've never encountered a drain in the hatches of a working butty - they'd be pretty much at water level when you're loaded. Tam Thanks Tam The points above relate to a butty that has been converted to a motor but I have also seen drains in an ex-working butty, albeit not necessarily a feature of the original build so they could have been added during restoration. In both cases they divert water in to the bilge for the pump to deal with. The "locker" now contains a weedhatch hence the need to correctly describe its location. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRLMK38 Posted March 12, 2021 Report Share Posted March 12, 2021 13 minutes ago, Ray T said: Chatting to Mike earlier on this evening and he has confirmed that. Message crossed ? Thanks Ray. In the cases I have seen they must have been added as part of a restoration/conversion and rely on a bilge pump. Dumb question, I assume butties were originally without stern bilge pumps because there was no stern tube that would let water in? Where pumps were fitted, I assume they were hand pumps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray T Posted March 12, 2021 Report Share Posted March 12, 2021 (edited) No question is dumb. As far as I am aware the only pumps working boats had in/on them were hand pumps to pump out the hold. Not my picture but when Sickle was owned by "The Parrotts." The pump is just in front of the cabin bulkhead. Whether the bilge in a motor was connected through to the hold I know not, I will have to resort to a drawing. I think the only electrics working boats had were an accumulator to work the tunnel light and possibly a "wireless." The accumulator would be exchanged at a depot as and when needed. Edited March 12, 2021 by Ray T 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tam & Di Posted March 12, 2021 Report Share Posted March 12, 2021 (edited) There were plunger pumps with leather washers in the back end of the hold (i.e. immediately forward of the butty cabin or motor enginehole). However the bulkhead between the butty cabin and hold was seldom watertight and you load down be the head so any water runs forward. Otherwise you baled out with a scoop of some kind - a dustpan works very well. Tam Ray's photo of Sickle shows the pump very well. The motor's bulkhead should be watertight or there is the possibility of contamination of the crago with oily water. Edited March 12, 2021 by Tam & Di crossed post with Ray 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Mack Posted March 15, 2021 Report Share Posted March 15, 2021 On 12/03/2021 at 18:51, Ray T said: Whether the bilge in a motor was connected through to the hold I know not, I will have to resort to a drawing. On Fulbourne and Belfast the bulkheads front and back of the engine room are watertight down to the bottom plate, so you have three separate bilges - hold, engine room and back cabin. I suspect this is the case for all the iron/steel GU motors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWM Posted March 15, 2021 Report Share Posted March 15, 2021 On 12/03/2021 at 18:51, Ray T said: No question is dumb. As far as I am aware the only pumps working boats had in/on them were hand pumps to pump out the hold. Not my picture but when Sickle was owned by "The Parrotts." The pump is just in front of the cabin bulkhead. Whether the bilge in a motor was connected through to the hold I know not, I will have to resort to a drawing. I think the only electrics working boats had were an accumulator to work the tunnel light and possibly a "wireless." The accumulator would be exchanged at a depot as and when needed. G.U. motors had an engine driven bilge pump, although i have no idea how they were operated. There is an outlet in the engine room which had been filled with lead at some stage, on the opposite side to the raw cooling outlet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archie57 Posted March 15, 2021 Report Share Posted March 15, 2021 Little Woolwich motors, probably others as well, had a 3-way valve mounted on the bulkhead below the floor plates plumbed in to the National bilge pump so the three areas David referred to could be pumped out 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Mack Posted March 15, 2021 Report Share Posted March 15, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, BWM said: G.U. motors had an engine driven bilge pump, although i have no idea how they were operated. There is an outlet in the engine room which had been filled with lead at some stage, on the opposite side to the raw cooling outlet. The pumps on Fulbourne's National: bilge pump on the left, cooling water pump on the right. The steel wheel to the left of the bilge pump can be slid to the right to engage the pump drive - it should stay engaged but Fulbourne's drops out after a couple of minutes and you have to hold it in mesh to keep the pump going. (Photo: Tim Lewis) Edited March 15, 2021 by David Mack 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnetman Posted March 15, 2021 Report Share Posted March 15, 2021 On 12/03/2021 at 17:45, Tam & Di said: One of the drawings calls the shackle the 'hawser shackle', but the copy dated January 1936 for a large Yarwoods ('town' class) motor has them as 'Answer pin and shackle. On the odd occasion I've had cause to write the term I've written 'anser pin'. Tam I wonder if somebody wrote down 'awser pin and their handwriting was poor so it was read as 'anser pin and the person writing it down as 'anser pin had some sort of seniority indicating they must have known what they were talkin' about. It could be that simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchcrawler Posted March 15, 2021 Report Share Posted March 15, 2021 4 minutes ago, magnetman said: I wonder if somebody wrote down 'awser pin and their handwriting was poor so it was read as 'anser pin and the person writing it down as 'anser pin had some sort of seniority indicating they must have known what they were talkin' about. It could be that simple. Or like happened on lots of old censor forms where the chap writing it down spoke with a somewhat different accent to the chap who couldn't read and write was telling him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnetman Posted March 15, 2021 Report Share Posted March 15, 2021 4 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said: Or like happened on lots of old censor forms where the chap writing it down spoke with a somewhat different accent to the chap who couldn't read and write was telling him I think it would have to be written otherwise why would it get changed from the word "awser" to "anser". Mind you there are a lot of dialects and probably even more in the olde days so you could easily be right about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchcrawler Posted March 15, 2021 Report Share Posted March 15, 2021 16 minutes ago, magnetman said: I think it would have to be written otherwise why would it get changed from the word "awser" to "anser". Mind you there are a lot of dialects and probably even more in the olde days so you could easily be right about that. I talk with a Norfolk accent, I find it almost impossible to spell words by sounding them out as I don't sound them correctly. If you were writing something for me and I said "Ah Bore" what would you write down? To me in Tipton they speak a foreign language if I had to write what some of them were saying it would be interesting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek R. Posted March 16, 2021 Report Share Posted March 16, 2021 10 hours ago, ditchcrawler said: . . . . as I don't sound them correctly. Perfectly correct for Norfolk! Don't change. I think magnetmans "awser" (sounds like hawser with the 'aitch dropped) should be 'answer' with the w dropped - anser. Changes the sound from 'a' as in apple, to 'a' as in aunt. But it will sound different depending on what part of the country you are from. (Is it a country any more - nah, let's not answer that one. Stick to what we knew - it's more comfortable). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchcrawler Posted March 16, 2021 Report Share Posted March 16, 2021 13 hours ago, ditchcrawler said: I talk with a Norfolk accent, I find it almost impossible to spell words by sounding them out as I don't sound them correctly. If you were writing something for me and I said "Ah Bore" what would you write down? To me in Tipton they speak a foreign language if I had to write what some of them were saying it would be interesting The answer is "Yes boy" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchcrawler Posted March 16, 2021 Report Share Posted March 16, 2021 17 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said: The answer is "Yes boy" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchcrawler Posted March 23, 2021 Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 On 15/03/2021 at 20:33, ditchcrawler said: I talk with a Norfolk accent, I find it almost impossible to spell words by sounding them out as I don't sound them correctly. If you were writing something for me and I said "Ah Bore" what would you write down? To me in Tipton they speak a foreign language if I had to write what some of them were saying it would be interesting To follow on from that I have just snipped this from Facebook. Now imagine you were a scholar from London doing a write up of a Norfolk Gardner and listening to where he kept his spade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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