Edward Elgar using CRT visitor moorings @ Stourport

[Jerra]

5 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

All it needs is some proper CRT signage detailing the times the mooring is required for use by the Edward Elgar.

 

JP

Providing you accept the principle of a business being provided facilities free of charge to the detriment of other boaters.

[haggis]

8 minutes ago, Jerra said:

Providing you accept the principle of a business being provided facilities free of charge to the detriment of other boaters.

But, do we know that it is free of charge? Perhaps a fee is paid to C&RT .

 

Haggis

[Rob-M]

Is this not similar to moorings at Merry Hill being unavailable for a few days before the bank holiday and over the bank holiday weekend so that the floating market traders can moor there.

[Jerra]

1 minute ago, haggis said:

But, do we know that it is free of charge? Perhaps a fee is paid to C&RT .

 

Haggis

Perhaps, however I am still of the opinion that businesses on the waterways should not be doing anything to disadvantage other boat users.  You know the sort of thing boats moored at the hire base leaving barely enough space for one to squeeze past, commandeering moorings even if for a fee.

 

To give a land based analogy/example we weren't allowed to stand even a sign flat to the wall outside our premises (not that we wanted to) because it might inconvenience others on the pavement.   A policy I agree with I would like to see the same for water based business i.e. you aren't allowed to disadvantage other users.

[john6767]

3 minutes ago, Rob-M said:

Is this not similar to moorings at Merry Hill being unavailable for a few days before the bank holiday and over the bank holiday weekend so that the floating market traders can moor there.

And the centre of Birmingham last May for the BCN Challenge!  I guess the issue is when the are few moorings and trip boats etc take up the scarce moorings, or at least have them reserved so they just sit empty.  I quite like seeing Edward Elgar on the G&S and the Severn, it is nice to see some bigger stuff moving.

[Captain Pegg]

1 hour ago, Jerra said:

Providing you accept the principle of a business being provided facilities free of charge to the detriment of other boaters.

I do. I also recognise it’s not free, it’s complimentary at best since the business pays a fee for the use of the waterway and it’s facilities. The Edward Elgar moors at Stourport on 15 nights in a year and always in midweek. It’s a sensible arrangement, it just needs better communication.
 

JP

Edited August 19, 2020 by Captain Pegg

[TheBiscuits]

9 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

I do. I also recognise it’s not free, it’s complimentary at best since the business pays a fee for the use of the waterway and it’s facilities. The Edward Elgar moors at Stourport on 15 nights in a year and always in midweek. It’s a sensible arrangement, it just needs better communication.
 

JP

 That's fair.

 

A mooring restriction notice on the stoppages website would help too.

[mrsmelly]

20 hours ago, Jerra said:

Providing you accept the principle of a business being provided facilities free of charge to the detriment of other boaters.

The Nottingham Princess has 3 specific moorings, all put in at great expense and paid for by the company. One is allowed by the company for others to use most of the time whilst two are strictly out of bounds to other craft for operational and safety reasons. I dont see why any business operater if they have a viable business cannot do similar.

[Cheese]

On 19/08/2020 at 15:32, Jerra said:

Perhaps, however I am still of the opinion that businesses on the waterways should not be doing anything to disadvantage other boat users.  ...

People can always just moor there and let the Edward Elgar breast up.   Only about 25 pasengers and crew crossing backwards and forwards across their boat all night, and a ladder/gangplank or two resting on the deck/roof. ?

 

[Mike Todd]

5 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

The Nottingham Princess has 3 specific moorings, all put in at great expense and paid for by the company. One is allowed by the company for others to use most of the time whilst two are strictly out of bounds to other craft for operational and safety reasons. I dont see why any business operater if they have a viable business cannot do similar.

Any business sensibly seeks the least cost solution compatible with it needs. If CaRT offer the facility then it is no criticism of the company if they accept. We, I think, do not what if anything the EE company pay for the facility but anything still helps to extend the maintenance work that can be done above that possible out of the Gov grant and other boaters' licences.

[Captain Pegg]

8 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

The Nottingham Princess has 3 specific moorings, all put in at great expense and paid for by the company. One is allowed by the company for others to use most of the time whilst two are strictly out of bounds to other craft for operational and safety reasons. I dont see why any business operater if they have a viable business cannot do similar.

It’s a question of scale. The Edward Elgar operates out of Gloucester where it does have a dedicated facility (which is presumably rented from CRT). From comments above it appears it also has similar arrangements in places it frequently visits.

 

Requiring a business to expend large sums of money on little used infrastructure is not a very clever strategy. As you surely know businesses are made viable by good strategy, wise investment decisions, a value for money product and marketing, and do not become viable by default.
 

So without this facility it’s quite possible the Edward Elgar would ensure the viability of its business by never going to Stourport. That would likely not be well received by local traders and they have lobbying power through their representative associations. It would also potentially have a knock on effect to the Elgar’s schedule as it may be more difficult to sell a lesser range of cruises. Hence we have a compromise situation that provides more benefit than disbenefit overall to the full scope of concerned parties.
 

It’s also worth remembering that other hotel boats licensed for CRT waterways do not as a rule use purpose built mooring facilities so there is also a question of fairness in how CRT treat their business licence applicants. Your example of a trip boat isn’t directly comparable to the whole operation of a hotel boat but it does have some relevance in terms of home mooring. Something the Elgar apparently pays for which I’m not sure all their competitors on the canals do.

 

JP

Edited August 20, 2020 by Captain Pegg

[frangar]

2 hours ago, Captain Pegg said:

It’s a question of scale. The Edward Elgar operates out of Gloucester where it does have a dedicated facility (which is presumably rented from CRT). From comments above it appears it also has similar arrangements in places it frequently visits.

 

Requiring a business to expend large sums of money on little used infrastructure is not a very clever strategy. As you surely know businesses are made viable by good strategy, wise investment decisions, a value for money product and marketing, and do not become viable by default.
 

So without this facility it’s quite possible the Edward Elgar would ensure the viability of its business by never going to Stourport. That would likely not be well received by local traders and they have lobbying power through their representative associations. It would also potentially have a knock on effect to the Elgar’s schedule as it may be more difficult to sell a lesser range of cruises. Hence we have a compromise situation that provides more benefit than disbenefit overall to the full scope of concerned parties.
 

It’s also worth remembering that other hotel boats licensed for CRT waterways do not as a rule use purpose built mooring facilities so there is also a question of fairness in how CRT treat their business licence applicants. Your example of a trip boat isn’t directly comparable to the whole operation of a hotel boat but it does have some relevance in terms home of mooring. Something the Elgar apparently pays for which I’m not sure all their competitors on the canals do.

 

JP

Yet again I will point out that most other hotel boats do not travel round the system sticking notices up to reserve visitor moorings!!  

[Captain Pegg]

1 minute ago, frangar said:

Yet again I will point out that most other hotel boats do not travel round the system sticking notices up to reserve visitor moorings!!  

It’s a CRT notice that I’ve acknowledged is not well done.
 

I’m not really sure what difference it makes to the overall issue anyway. Better they stick up a notice than the boat arrives and turfs people off the mooring.

[frangar]

Just now, Captain Pegg said:

It’s a CRT notice that I’ve acknowledged is not well done.
 

I’m not really sure what difference it makes to the overall issue anyway. Better they stick up a notice than the boat arrives and turfs people off the mooring.

It makes a difference that firstly I’m still finding out if it is indeed a CRT notice...secondly there is limited visitor mooring there for any size of boat...and thirdly other hotel boats don’t rock up demanding people move. 

[TheBiscuits]

7 minutes ago, frangar said:

Yet again I will point out that most other hotel boats do not travel round the system sticking notices up to reserve visitor moorings!!  

 

Mainly because most of them have other options, based on size.

 

I agree with JP: The G&S and the Severn are ship navigations that we are allowed to play on with narrowboats, not canals that ships come on.

 

You're only cross because the Edward Elgar is wider than 7ft! ?

 

[frangar]

3 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

Mainly because most of them have other options, based on size.

 

I agree with JP: The G&S and the Severn are ship navigations that we are allowed to play on with narrowboats, not canals that ships come on.

 

You're only cross because the Edward Elgar is wider than 7ft! ?

 

Yet again if you read my post you will see it was a rather nice Dutch barge that had fun finding a mooring because of this notice...where would you suggest they should have moored? 

[TheBiscuits]

7 minutes ago, frangar said:

Yet again if you read my post you will see it was a rather nice Dutch barge that had fun finding a mooring because of this notice...where would you suggest they should have moored? 

Up the broad lock in the inner basin?

[frangar]

Just now, TheBiscuits said:

Up the broad lock in the inner basin?

As far as the signage says there isn’t any visitor moorings in the inner basin....and there certainly wasn’t space there that I could see that the barge would have fitted. 

[TheBiscuits]

12 minutes ago, frangar said:

Yet again if you read my post you will see it was a rather nice Dutch barge that had fun finding a mooring because of this notice

On 18/08/2020 at 15:34, frangar said:

These signs appeared this morning between me checking to see what space is available and trying to moor

[frangar]

Just now, TheBiscuits said:

 

I didn’t say I moored in that space!! 

[Graham Davis]

22 minutes ago, frangar said:

It makes a difference that firstly I’m still finding out if it is indeed a CRT notice...secondly there is limited visitor mooring there for any size of boat...and thirdly other hotel boats don’t rock up demanding people move. 

I'm sure I've read on here in the past hotel boats doing exactly that!

[TheBiscuits]

Have you bought a fatty, Gareth?!

[frangar]

1 minute ago, TheBiscuits said:

Have you bought a fatty, Gareth?!

No....but that doesn’t stop me helping those that have got them....especially on the right waterways 

[frangar]

9 minutes ago, Graham Davis said:

I'm sure I've read on here in the past hotel boats doing exactly that!

I’ve never experienced it and they would get short shrift if they tried it with me and it was a visitor mooring. 

[TheBiscuits]

2 minutes ago, frangar said:

No....but that doesn’t stop me helping those that have got them....especially on the right waterways 

 

So you'll be quite pleased that the biggest ship that navigates the Severn on a regular basis gets well looked after by CRT then?