Engine options

[Welshmally]

Morning all,

 

My daughter has a 46' wooden topped narrowboat, with a 2 cylinder air-cooled Petter engine. Mechanically it is sound and the plan is to give it a good service when she arrives in Oxford in August.

It starts first time every time. The problem is the noise - it's a traditional stern with the controls inside the engine room and with no water jacket, the noise level is significant (hard on a long day cruising). We're after some options with regard to making the access through the stern much easier, and to reduce the noise when she's under way - at the moment she needs to keep at least 1 door open to maintain access to the controls. The exhaust is through the stern.

 

What options are possible with regard to building some sort of shroud/gantry (which still permits a good air flow) which will also incorporate steps into the stern compartment? I was thinking along the lines of a steel platform with a wooden cover which can be removed for maintenance - any thoughts/ideas would be appreciated

 

Thanks

[dmr]

Air cooled engines are loud, a water jacket is a very good noise reducer.

Its actually usually easier to box in an air cooled engine than a water cooled as the air cooled engine already has suitable shrouding/ducts and a fan to manage the air flow. Make absolutely sure that you understand where the air goes in and comes out and don't do anything to compromise that air flow.

 

..............Dave

[Welshmally]

Thanks Dave, yes, air flow is an absolute priority. Ear plugs are a good alternative to sound attenuation!

[Athy]

The engine on our first boat was a similar air-cooled Petter PH2. After a while I grew to love its sound. I just had to get used to saying "Half past three" when anyone on another boat or on the bank spoke to me.

[PhilR]

1 minute ago, Welshmally said:

Thanks Dave, yes, air flow is an absolute priority. Ear plugs are a good alternative to sound attenuation!

Is this the same boat mentioned by Welsherfarr? or coincidence that they both have Petters?

[Jen-in-Wellies]

Various soundproofing materials available. Good idea to use the fire resistant sorts. My boat uses the type with a lead barrier layer inside under the deck board and it makes a difference. The engine is water cooled though.

Jen

[Welshmally]

5 minutes ago, PhilR said:

Is this the same boat mentioned by Welsherfarr? or coincidence that they both have Petters?

No relation.....

[Onewheeler]

Noise cancelling headphones.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

1 hour ago, Onewheeler said:

Noise cancelling headphones.

What was that?

?

[Machpoint005]

Build a box around engine by all means, but as dmr Dave said, make sure you have enough airflow over the engine. greatly reducing the noise is the easy bit: getting the air in and out quietly is the hard bit. We are talking lined ducts and airways with bends in, if (and only if) the engine has enough huff to deal with them.

[Victor Vectis]

And don't forget that a diesel engine needs to 'breath' too.

[Tony Brooks]

Seeing the problem we had keeping the SL4s' combustion air inlet temperature cool enough even with the correct canvas ducting to a hole in the hull nothing would induce me to try to box in and sound proof an air cooled engine. I would far rather fit a water cooled one but accept that is probably not possible in this case.

[bizzard]

Probably more casualties in submarines in wartime than in action. Enemy insight!!! Dive, dive, dive. If the engine room staff were slow to shut down the diesels after the captain had come down the conning tower and securing the hatch, the whole boat could be very quickly put into a terrible vacuum because of the vast volumes of air sucked in by the diesels still running, inficting dreadful maladies to the crew, like eyes popping out, noses bleeding, bloatedness even brain damage.

[Cinimod]

Hi Welshmally...

 

Curiously I am in a similar situation, I picked up my girl last Thursday in York and she has an air-cooled Lister engine... 

Again - in order to operate the gears, I need to have the hatch open, but ALSO the engine has quite a haze and if the hatch (or doors) were not open then the engine room would soon fog up.

 

My way round it - to put in my mpow earbuds and listen to podcasts whilst I am cruising... 

This is the newer version of them - https://amzn.to/2E9qLjo - works well, and then when I stop for a lock I take one out so I can talk to people

I also have the issue with getting in and out, it is not the easiest... and mine is metal topped to moving the hatch is a bigger job... but I may have it done one day.

You say you have a wooden top, so can you move the hatch over to the side with the access to the cabin and put steps down there?

 

I am on my way down to Bath and will be coming via Oxford - I should be there in about 25 days if you fancy meeting up for a chat...

 

 

 

[PhilR]

11 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

Seeing the problem we had keeping the SL4s' combustion air inlet temperature cool enough even with the correct canvas ducting to a hole in the hull nothing would induce me to try to box in and sound proof an air cooled engine. I would far rather fit a water cooled one but accept that is probably not possible in this case.

The SR series Listers are great when you get to my age and have impaired hearing! I love the reliability of the engine.

[Welshmally]

Thanks for the tips so far: it's a PH2 with a starting crank like this - can this a) be removed and blanked and b) is this a good idea? I can't see my daughter cranking it successfully and the tower gets in the way. So far, she has stated 1st time every time

I had envisaged building a metal platform over the top, leaving the sides open, and then fixing a sound attenuating board under the platform. This would leave enough space for air flow, and also it would be hinged to allow access for maintenance. Getting the crank tower out of the way would make life much easier

I was amazed at how much reduction in the noise level was even by pulling the hatch closed and leaving the doors open. Closing 1 door helps even further but both would block access to controls

Edited July 22, 2020 by Welshmally

[Bod]

Move the controls?

 

Bod

[Welshmally]

1 hour ago, Bod said:

Move the controls?

 

Bod

Hi bod, yes, we'd thought about this - it is definitely an option, so I'd be interested to see what other people had done with the PH2. The throttle would be easy enough I think but the gear stick might be a bit of a challenge - it's a very long travel from forwards to reverse

[Athy]

15 hours ago, Welshmally said:

 

I had envisaged building a metal platform over the top, leaving the sides open

 

That was almost almost exactly what we had on Octavia, our first boat. But the platform was a square frame of L-shaped girders into which several planks fitted. So, air could circulate freely, and the planks were removable for engine access.

[Welshmally]

6 minutes ago, Athy said:

That was almost almost exactly what we had on Octavia, our first boat. But the platform was a square frame of L-shaped girders into which several planks fitted. So, air could circulate freely, and the planks were removable for engine access.

Excellent. Did it work and I don't suppose you have any photos.......?

[OldGoat]

1 hour ago, Welshmally said:

Hi bod, yes, we'd thought about this - it is definitely an option, so I'd be interested to see what other people had done with the PH2. The throttle would be easy enough I think but the gear stick might be a bit of a challenge - it's a very long travel from forwards to reverse

I know nooothing about thes engines, but I expect the gear stick has a long travel 'cos it's "tall" ??

Soo would a teleflex remote cable do the jon instead?

OK - not kosher but when in extremis??

[Welshmally]

Interesting: possibly worth investigating...... Thanks for the tip

[Athy]

3 minutes ago, Welshmally said:

Excellent. Did it work and I don't suppose you have any photos.......?

Work? Well, we stood on it  to steer and neither of us fell off or through it during our four-year ownership of the boat!

You suppose correctly, no photos I'm afraid. Thinking about it (we sold the boat 19 years ago) I suspect that there were only two, longitudinal,  girders, welded to the front of the rear deck (if that makes sense) and to the rear surface of the bulkheadf which divided the engine room from the bedroom. There MAY have been vertical supports too. The sections of plank were, therefore, placed transversely on to the girders. There was room for a step on the right-hand side giving access to the rest of the boat.

[Tony Brooks]

11 minutes ago, OldGoat said:

I know nooothing about thes engines, but I expect the gear stick has a long travel 'cos it's "tall" ??

Soo would a teleflex remote cable do the jon instead?

OK - not kosher but when in extremis??

Its tall and has  along travel because its an old design of mechanical box that requires some force to engage the gears. There is no chance a standard 33C type control would work but Morse do or did one that had separate gear and throttle levers that had a long gear lever and a much heavier cable. Personally I have doubts that even one of those would be satisfactory.  I think this type of gearbox needs a traditional slide type gear control as found on working boats if you want it remote from the gearbox. that or an twin sized lever coming up through the steering position floor,linked by a rod.

[OldGoat]

23 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

Its tall and has  along travel because its an old design of mechanical box that requires some force to engage the gears. There is no chance a standard 33C type control would work but Morse do or did one that had separate gear and throttle levers that had a long gear lever and a much heavier cable. Personally I have doubts that even one of those would be satisfactory.  I think this type of gearbox needs a traditional slide type gear control as found on working boats if you want it remote from the gearbox. that or an twin sized lever coming up through the steering position floor,linked by a rod.

Aha! I'm obliged m'lud.