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NB 'Wrong 'Uns'

Solo Boater - What Toilet?

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3 minutes ago, NB Caelmiri said:

How is it not environmentally friendly? What is there in poo that wouldn't break down far before anything else that goes into landfill? I don't know about how rubbish is handled after the bin men take it but are there people manually wading through the rubbish? I'd be surprised. Please if you know otherwise let me know what happens. But I certainly can't imagine poo has a negative affect on the environment. 

The problem with landfill is that it is a finite resource and considering human waste can be treated and put back onto farmland it always strikes me as daft to bung it in landfill 

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Why does it feel from reading this thread that despite the majority of responses saying ‘cassette’ we have OP insisting that composting (otherwise known as storing your sh1t in bags) is a better idea?

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51 minutes ago, NB Caelmiri said:

How is it not environmentally friendly? What is there in poo that wouldn't break down far before anything else that goes into landfill?

 

I don't know about how rubbish is handled after the bin men take it but are there people manually rummaging through the rubbish? I'd be surprised. Doesn't it all just get crushed in the back of a truck and then crushed again elsewhere? Please if you know otherwise let me know what happens. But I certainly can't imagine poo has a negative affect on the environment. 

Biffa or another contractor supply and remove the bins here, there is not enough capacity, so within a few days the lids won't close [allowing in rats etc] by the end of the week there is a huge amount left by the side, sometimes the contractor removes overspill, sometimes not. They can't be expected to handle/remove human waste.

Locally, landfill waste goes direct to a relatively small landfill site where it will be bulldozed and covered with topsoil. London and other conurbations may use transfer stations, and put on to larger lorries or trains then out to massive landfill sites., tipped, bulldozed, covered.

The CRT don't do a lot of re-cycling: separating glass/plastics/cardboards is not going to work unless general waste bins are emptied frequently.

The main idea of recycling is to cut back on the volume of waste [we are short of suitable sites], and to make that waste inert, ie no methane, no pollutants to seep in to groundwater, etc etc.

Faecal material collected by random methods is not suitable for landfill, or for handling by manual workers.

Edited by LadyG

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When discussions take place on composting loos on here, I often wonder how they work if your poos are not nice solid ones and are more liquid. Which compartment do they go into - solid or liquid? - and not to put too fine a point on it I wouldn't think it would be so easy to "aim" with a liquid poo. 

To me having a composting loo , unless you have space to do the composting and dispose of the result, is a backward step. It is like going back to the time before sewers were invented and your waste was thrown away 🙂 .  

Sorry to anyone having their breakfast and reading this! 

 

Haggis 

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1 hour ago, WotEver said:

Why does it feel from reading this thread that despite the majority of responses saying ‘cassette’ we have OP insisting that composting (otherwise known as storing your sh1t in bags) is a better idea?

Hello,

Im not saying its better, I'm just saying I'd rather be more enviromentally friendly, but after reading the threads here, I have since decided otherwise.

Thanks, Niklaus

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2 hours ago, jddevel said:

My word that must be a huge sceptic tank. Ours is capable of accomodating 12 peoples` use and emptying cost me £120. Normally every two years. Like our boat holding tank limit chemical use and allow the "solids" to decompose with liquid dispersal over a garden area (underground obviously). That liquid obviously also carries with it a certain amount of "liquified" solids which have bio-degraded due to this reduced chemical use. To me toilets are a personal choice and would suggest that any routine of its` "service" whether pump out or personally storing/emptying can be got use to but my limited use of Elsan toilets and the odour and state some are left in made pump-out a natural choice. Bit like those public toilets I`m sure we`ve all encountered when you`ve just had to find another cubicle.

The only chemicals to go into our septic tank is washing up liquid. dish washer tablets (not good) and biological detergent, soap and shampo.

36 minutes ago, haggis said:

When discussions take place on composting loos on here, I often wonder how they work if your poos are not nice solid ones and are more liquid. Which compartment do they go into - solid or liquid? - and not to put too fine a point on it I wouldn't think it would be so easy to "aim" with a liquid poo. 

To me having a composting loo , unless you have space to do the composting and dispose of the result, is a backward step. It is like going back to the time before sewers were invented and your waste was thrown away 🙂 .  

Sorry to anyone having their breakfast and reading this! 

 

Haggis 

It depends if you move your bum, look ats some of the drawings of them

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1 hour ago, jddevel said:

Why was a boom sprayer necessary? Ours is pumped as commented earlier underground and naturally perculates away around our garden. I would add that we could have (but not actually necessary) to have had the airiated system, which I have installed in properties, which legally allows the liquid out to be run into a water course. I know of no system like that which could be applied to boats but then its` power use although small may be prohibitive.

Ours is a 55 person rating (EA and LA specified) and we empty every couple of years (ish)

 

It has the powered 'boom sprayers' inside both chambers which apparently aids the 'cleaning process' I don't claim any expertise on such matters and just followed what the EA told us we needed to be able to discharge into the dyke running alongside the hedge.

We had to have a discharge licence (for 5 cubes) which was renewed each year at a 'peppercorn' rate, but a few years ago we had a letter saying that they were cancelling the discharge licence and we no longer needed one.

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16 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Ours is a 55 person rating (EA and LA specified) and we empty every couple of years (ish)

 

It has the powered 'boom sprayers' inside both chambers which apparently aids the 'cleaning process' I don't claim any expertise on such matters and just followed what the EA told us we needed to be able to discharge into the dyke running alongside the hedge.

We had to have a discharge licence (for 5 cubes) which was renewed each year at a 'peppercorn' rate, but a few years ago we had a letter saying that they were cancelling the discharge licence and we no longer needed one.

Yours is going into a water course not via a soakaway. IE. the dyke, a couple of houses around here have had to do the same thing

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22 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

urs is a 55 person rating (EA and LA specified) and we empty every couple of years (ish)

 

It has the powered 'boom sprayers' inside both chambers which apparently aids the 'cleaning process' I don't claim any expertise on such matters and just followed what the EA told us we needed to be able to discharge into the dyke running alongside the hedge.

We had to have a discharge licence (for 5 cubes) which was renewed each year at a 'peppercorn' rate, but a few years ago we had a letter saying that they were cancelling the discharge licence and we no longer needed one.

Now I understand. The "booms" or as I now understand are aerators inside the tank which do as I mentioned allow liquid discharge to ground water. Your supposed to be able to drink this liquid (not that I`d either try or know anyone who has). The booms spead up the activity of the biological action of the microbes and indeed carry out the same function as a normal sewage plant. Your tank one assumes is part of a business property.

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As I`ve commented before I find the differential between having to pay for a pump out, but in many instances Elsan is free, rather discriminatory. One assumes we empty the same quanity of effluent undoubtedly which finds its way into the same storage facility and which has to be emptied and paid for by the marina/land owner. The  cost of a pump out -in the case of those operated by the CRT self service or the marina labour and power cost (can be as high as £25 I believe)  is difficult in my opinion not to believe I`m not subsidising the cassette users. 

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3 minutes ago, jddevel said:

As I`ve commented before I find the differential between having to pay for a pump out, but in many instances Elsan is free, rather discriminatory. One assumes we empty the same quanity of effluent undoubtedly which finds its way into the same storage facility and which has to be emptied and paid for by the marina/land owner. The  cost of a pump out -in the case of those operated by the CRT self service or the marina labour and power cost (can be as high as £25 I believe)  is difficult in my opinion not to believe I`m not subsidising the cassette users. 

From past experience, the CRT need all the money they can get for their waste disposal services as the Little Venice pump out in particular was continually in need of repair. I think you've got a point to a degree but while the elsans are just pouring your muck into a hole, there is some equipment involved that needs maintaining for pump out. 16 quid a time though (at LV at least)? Always felt a bit steep.

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3 minutes ago, NB Caelmiri said:

elsans are just pouring your muck into a hole,

I question that I`m afraid. It has to go on from there surely and at cost? As I commented probably into the same storage facility as the pump out effluent is retained until taken away. Howver in the case of Little Venice, perhaps it goes into the local sewage system-I cannot comment having no knowledge.

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1 minute ago, jddevel said:

I question that I`m afraid. It has to go on from there surely and at cost? As I commented probably into the same storage facility as the pump out effluent is retained until taken away. Howver in the case of Little Venice, perhaps it goes into the local sewage system-I cannot comment having no knowledge.

From what I understand or recall being told, the Elsan and the pump out at Little Venice all goes into the local sewage or at the very least the pump out goes into the same place as the elsan. Which makes sense, I'm not sure why you'd have waste from one source going into a different storage as another when they're within spitting distance of each other. But I'm pretty sure I was told both of them go into the local sewage system.

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2 minutes ago, NB Caelmiri said:

From what I understand or recall being told, the Elsan and the pump out at Little Venice all goes into the local sewage or at the very least the pump out goes into the same place as the elsan. 

Surely if elsan and pump out go into a normal swer in more rural areas the chemicals could cause havoc in the filter beds.

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1 minute ago, Jerra said:

Surely if elsan and pump out go into a normal swer in more rural areas the chemicals could cause havoc in the filter beds.

Not sure about elsewhere! You're probably right though. I suspect it's different in rural areas. That was just my understanding for Little Venice in London. 

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Just now, NB Caelmiri said:

Not sure about elsewhere! You're probably right though. I suspect it's different in rural areas. That was just my understanding for Little Venice in London. 

I mentioned rural as I suspect the dilution in London would be so great it didn't matter.

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4 hours ago, Alastair said:

If I were a cruising boater, I'd probably go for a cassette system with several spares. A cassette can be put in a bike trailer and taken to a caravan park or BW disposal point. That adds a lot of flexibility.

Bears repeating. If iced in/broken down etc.,  with a full pump out, you're knackered. With cassettes, you can take them to the disposal point - a bit of a faff, but doable.

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2 minutes ago, Richard10002 said:

Bears repeating. If iced in/broken down etc.,  with a full pump out, you're knackered. With cassettes, you can take them to the disposal point - a bit of a faff, but doable.

Handy things a boat bike and trailer, useful even when the dog gets tired.

Trailer 3.png

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2 hours ago, jddevel said:

As I`ve commented before I find the differential between having to pay for a pump out, but in many instances Elsan is free, rather discriminatory. One assumes we empty the same quanity of effluent undoubtedly which finds its way into the same storage facility and which has to be emptied and paid for by the marina/land owner. The  cost of a pump out -in the case of those operated by the CRT self service or the marina labour and power cost (can be as high as £25 I believe)  is difficult in my opinion not to believe I`m not subsidising the cassette users. 

When comparing though I would suggest the long term maintenance, service and repair costs for each type of provision will be greater for a pump out than a basic Elsan.

 

The pump out has the additional complication of the pump/motor and electrics to consider. When set against the simplicity of an Elsan there is to me at least some justification for charging for one and not the other.

 

The scale of that charge may be something that needs addressing though, I bet they run them at a profit (CRT/Marina's) Though of course I don't have any fugures to back this up it just seem logical to me that one costs more to run than another.

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2 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

The pump out has the additional complication of the pump/motor and electrics to consider.

Not all pumpouts require on board pumps or electrics.

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With the canals becoming more commercial orientated anything you can get away with charging for will catch the eye of the accountant. I remember my first boating holiday addmittedly on the Broads in 1962 when we were swimming in the same water that the previous days food had end. 

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23 hours ago, NB 'Wrong 'Uns' said:

Hi,

I am sorry, I was unaware they banned that. I have will have enough room to store about 4 months worth of waste. I have a 6' 6" long engine room, and a 5' 6" well deck with large stroage seats, that will be make specificly for the purpuse of storing the waste from the composting toilet.

Thanks, Niklaus

Why would you want to be cruising around with 4 months of waste for company!

 

Keep it simple, go the cassette option, with 3 cassettes.  That will last you best part of 2 weeks.  If you have all that storage space you could even go for 4 cassettes, but that is probably over the top.

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11 minutes ago, john6767 said:

Why would you want to be cruising around with 4 months of waste for company!

Besides, once it's composted after 6 months or so, then you'll have to regularly (as often as you empty your toilet) get rid of a bag of compost.  Where?

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35 minutes ago, Jerra said:

Not all pumpouts require on board pumps or electrics.

Mine for a start

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47 minutes ago, Jerra said:

Not all pumpouts require on board pumps or electrics.

I thought he was referring to the justification of the cost of a pump-out, ie, the operator has to provide service and maintain a vacuum pump, electric supply, hoses etc etc.

 

I don't think he was referring for the need of all that gubbins 'on-board',

 

He also refers to an 'elsan' (not a cassette) and says the maintenance costs will be lower than for a pump-out machine.

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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