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MartynG

Fuel pipe for diesel heater BSS requirements

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What are the BSS requirement for the fuel pipe for a diesel heater ?

its probably there in the BSS documents but I just cant see it - 

must the pipe be metal between the heater and the tank - with no joints except , obviously, at the fuel pump? 

a link to the BSS requirements would be good please 

Asking for a friend who has a plastic fuel pipe .

 

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22 minutes ago, MartynG said:

Asking for a friend who has a plastic fuel pipe .

Plastic or rubber?

 

Hose must be clearly marked to pass: ISO 7840

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10 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Plastic or rubber?

 

Hose must be clearly marked to pass: ISO 7840

I don't know what the material  of the existing pipe is exactly  ....but I understand it was a failure point.

 

So may the fuel pipe be a mix of metal and ISO 7840 flexible pipe?

 

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, MartynG said:

I don't know what the material  of the existing pipe is exactly  ....but I understand it was a failure point.

Get your friend to ask the examiner why it failed - it could be that he replaces it with what 'we' think passes but the examiner still says 'it doesn't'.

 

An examiner failed my boat because it didn't have an RCD fitted, even tho' an RCD is not mandatory,

Sometimes examiners interpret the rules to mean what they would like them to say, rather than what they actually say.

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My webasto came with the standard  plastic fuel pipe in the main box and the correct copper pipe in the marine installation kit box.  The rigid plastic pipe will not pass a BSS, and I suspect this is what has been fitted.

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6 minutes ago, MartynG said:

So may the fuel pipe be a mix of metal and ISO 7840 flexible pipe?

I don’t know. However is there a reason why it should be? One single pipe from the tank to the pump (which is internal if it’s a D4). I suppose if there’s a filter then you’d be fine with copper to the filter then hose to the unit. 

1 minute ago, TheBiscuits said:

My webasto came with the standard  plastic fuel pipe in the main box and the correct copper pipe in the marine installation kit box.  The rigid plastic pipe will not pass a BSS, and I suspect this is what has been fitted.

I suspect that your suspicion is spot on :)

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Where the metal pipe joins the ISO 7840 I think you need to either have a compression fitting with a hosetail or the pipe needs to be flared so that the tube cannot slide off. Plastic pipe is not allowed - the same rules for any fuel lines. I just used a brake pipe flaring tool.

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When I built aeons ago -   I too the view that the 'correct' copper pipe was easyer to lay manage  and join than working with larger composite rubber / whatsit pipes - and I only had a 10mm drill.

Rubber rots, good soft copper doesn't.

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I am pleased I asked as it seems there isn't a lot of guidance on the subject - but at least we are down to two options on pipe material.

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The proposed solution to the problem is to remove the heater from the boat 😁

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5 minutes ago, MartynG said:

The proposed solution to the problem is to remove the heater from the boat 😁

And refit it after the BSS examiner has left ?

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10 minutes ago, MartynG said:

The proposed solution to the problem is to remove the heater from the boat 😁

https://www.butlertechnik.com/webasto-copper-fuel-pipe-5mm-x-5m-411668a-p116

 

Less than three quid a foot.  Other suppliers are available, but check the right size for the heater if it's not a Webasto.

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8 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

And refit it after the BSS examiner has left ?

It's not my solution , not my boat,  .....so I  would not like to say whether the heater will be refitted or not. . 

I appreciate the general idea is to keep the boat compliant with BSS requirements at all times . If everyone did so the BSS inspection every 4 years would be  a formality.

 

In this case the examiner needs photographs as proof of the of the solutions to the failure points  have been resolved  - no further inspection is proposed.

 

6 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

https://www.butlertechnik.com/webasto-copper-fuel-pipe-5mm-x-5m-411668a-p116

 

Less than three quid a foot.  Other suppliers are available, but check the right size for the heater if it's not a Webasto.

I believe it's an Eberspacher ...... does that make a difference ?  I agree its not a huge  cost , but it's not my boat.

 

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4 minutes ago, MartynG said:

I  would not like to say whether the heater will be refitted or not.

 

Tell your mate that's kind of my point - if the only failure point for the heater is the fuel line isn't metal, replace the nylon pipe with copper for a few quid and leave the heater installed.  If the whole heater install is just a bodge, then yeah, removal makes sense.

 

Having fitted a few they are a lot of work to install correctly, and nearly as much to remove.  Through-hull exhaust fittings, through bulkhead air conduits and cable runs for the controller and the thermostat , electrical connections, tapping the fuel tank, fuel line runs clipped up correctly.  

 

If it's only replace the fuel pipe and take a photo of it for the BSS chap then he should do it and it'll be fine for the next test unless they change the rules again. They make a lot of difference to usability in autumn/winter/spring, and even summer sometimes!  

 

 

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12 minutes ago, MartynG said:

It's not my solution , not my boat,  .....

I realise that it is your friends boat, but suggest you may like to point out to him that if the heater is re-installed and not subsequently re-tested for BSS compliance then his BSS will be invalidate and presumably his insurance.

 

The BSS guidance changed in 2013 :

 

Many owners believe that their BSSC is valid for four years and, by doing what the majority of boat owners do in the form of alterations/improvements to their craft, they sometimes (unknowingly) invalidate their BSSC because they do not realise that such actions may contravene the BSSC 'terms and conditions' which are to be found on the rear of the 'old' (pre 1st April 2013) Certificate and which clearly state:

The validity of this certificate may be affected and can be cancelled if the vessel is not properly maintained and/or alterations are made ...

For BSSC's awarded after 1st April 2013, a revised set of terms and conditions entitled ‘About the BSS Examination and its Limitations’ is issued to the owner in either hard copy format or emailed as a .pdf document and these state:

Revised terms

The owner’s on-going responsibility: it is crucial to maintain the vessel in good condition in accordance with the safety requirements; and, any other licensing, registration or mooring conditions of the relevant navigation or harbour authority. The validity of a BSS pass result may be affected and can be cancelled if the vessel is not properly maintained; and/or non-compliant alterations are made....

Purchasers should not to place undue reliance on any accompanying BSSC as proof that a boat is compliant with the requirements of the Boat Safety Scheme (BSS) at the time of purchase. Prospective buyers are encouraged to check that the boat's paperwork actually reflects the configuration of the boat for sale. If, for example, the boat has had an engine change, major electrical re-work, a galley re-fit or any of its LPG appliances changed/upgraded since its last examination, the certificate may not be valid if the work was carried out in a non-BSS compliant manner (which could also have insurance implications).

 

 

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The boat in question  received a BSS certificate 4 years ago with the same heater and fuel pipe in place , with no change in the requirements in the  meantime,  which shows what  a load of old tosh the BSS really is . 

 

If it was my boat I would be replacing the fuel pipe but it's not my boat nor am I my friends keeper . 

.

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11 minutes ago, MartynG said:

The boat in question  received a BSS certificate 4 years ago with the same heater and fuel pipe in place , with no change in the requirements in the  meantime,  which shows what  a load of old tosh the BSS really is . 

Indeed -its just 'jobs for the boys' It does very little to improve boat safety due to the inconsistent way it is implemented.

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I have had more than one MOT on an old car and then found a safety problem with a very short time that they missed. Even doctors miss things

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The MOT has more rigid requirements for the test, the BSS is more open to the examiners and owners interpretation. Rarely will a car be passed having failed elsewhere, BSS examination can fail items that have been passed several times in the past, either not spotted by previous examiner or different interpretation of the wording. But if we moved to a MOT system all boats would have to be similar.

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