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cuthound

Body Found in Canal at Brewood.

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This was in danger of entering panto season if I didn't offer an explanation. - Athy is well known for insisting black is white no matter what the evidence.

Edited by Athy

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4 minutes ago, Ange said:

This was in danger of entering panto season if I didn't offer an explanation. - Athy is well known for insisting black is white no matter what the evidence.

Without a single shadow of a doubt. 

 

It must be a fine thing not to be bounded by silly facts - wish I could do it.

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It's already been said but given that there are what, around 100 active members on here, the chances of the deceased's family reading the thread, given that there are 60 odd million people in this country, are vanishingly slim. Even if they did I'd imagine the 'hurt' of reading attempts at humour about the situation would pale into insignificance given their actual loss. Reacting to adversity with humour is a British trait, it's our culture, it would be a shame if this was destroyed by the bleatings of a minority with little else to do but feel offended on behalf of others.      

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6 hours ago, Ange said:

This was in danger of entering panto season if I didn't offer an explanation. - Athy is well known for insisting black is white no matter what the evidence.

An odd assertion. I do hope that you aren't suggesting that I have told some form of deliberate untruth. I don't do that. I also feel that describing a thread about the loss of a life as "panto season" is, at best, unfortunate. Please try to show a little more respect. Have you forgotten that this thread is about someone's death? Incidentally, your posts show on my screen as numbers 52 and 53.

 

Back to Cuthound, who presumably saw the news in his local paper: is there any further information?

 

Regarding comments by Welsh Cruiser and Jim Riley earlier: they suggest that it's unlikely that friends or family of the deceased will read this thread. However, if a person falls into a canal, it's entirely possible that he was a boater or a person connected with the business of the waterways, and thus that f&f would indeed be CWDF readers. So we are correct to err on the side of caution. Indeed, I seem to remember that there are precedents on here, where members have been asked not to speculate after similar incidents because the people involved were boaters. It is entirely appropriate to follow these precedents.

 

The last such incident which I remember was on the Napton flight last year, and the deceased was indeed a boater.

 

Edited by Athy

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When a complaint like this arises do mods ever say "Stop being so mard, others think differently, life can be harsh, get over it" or is there an automatic bias, lowest common denominator rush to fluffybunnyland? 

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20 minutes ago, Jim Riley said:

When a complaint like this arises do mods ever say "Stop being so mard, others think differently, life can be harsh, get over it" or is there an automatic bias, lowest common denominator rush to fluffybunnyland? 

We take note of the wishes and feelings of various members, hence the editing of this topic, as was explained earlier.

We try, of course, to remain impartial, but I must say that a suggestion that showing respect for the dead is a "lowest common denominator" would not concur with my view. Perhaps I have misunderstood your point.

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Out of respect to the family involved, can a moderator now delete this thread. 

 

It is going round in circles and serves no real purpose. 

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1 minute ago, MHS said:

Out of respect to the family involved, can a moderator now delete this thread. 

 

It is going round in circles and serves no real purpose. 

That's because there has, as yet, been no further news. The thread will serve the purpose of being the place to publish further information if and when it becomes available.

I fully agree with your expression of respect for the family involved.

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3 minutes ago, MHS said:

Out of respect to the family involved, can a moderator now delete this thread. 

 

It is going round in circles and serves no real purpose. 

Seconded. 

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8 minutes ago, Athy said:

That's because there has, as yet, been no further news. The thread will serve the purpose of being the place to publish further information if and when it becomes available.

I fully agree with your expression of respect for the family involved.

Then please remove it and start a new one, without any of the bickering. 

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32 minutes ago, Athy said:

We take note of the wishes and feelings of various members, hence the editing of this topic, as was explained earlier.

We try, of course, to remain impartial, but I must say that a suggestion that showing respect for the dead is a "lowest common denominator" would not concur with my view. Perhaps I have misunderstood your point.

No actually you take note of the wishes and feelings of a tiny minority of members and select the lowest common denominator in terms of the worst virtue signalling offence-porn junkies (that was the intent behind the reference to LCD, I suspect) and allow them to take control, which of course is what they love. A number of people including myself have put the opposite view but this is disregarded in favour of the LCD.

 

The bottom line is that if any discussion around the death of someone is to be disallowed, there is absolutely no point in having the thread in the first place other than as a virtue signalling opportunity for a few people who have never met the person to express their random condolences.

 

Of course speculation around the death of someone (which presumably would include from a boating accident) is not proscribed in the forum rules and guidelines, so this is another example of the mod team making up the rules.

 

i subscribe to an aviation forum called PPRuNe - Professional Pilot’s Rumour Network. Despite the inclusion of “Rumour” in the forum name, every time there is an aviation accident, up pops the vociferous offence porn junkies demanding that we don’t speculate on the cause of the accident because relatives might be upset. Fortunately on that forum, the mods stand firm and speculation continues despite the faux outrage.

 

Ultimately the more you let the virtue signalling control freaks win, the more sterile the forum becomes. As it is, I now rarely visit except for technical threads because the rest is too controlled by the group-think. Have you ever read George Orwell’s 1984?

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1 hour ago, Athy said:

Back to Cuthound, who presumably saw the news in his local paper: is there any further information?

 

I saw the news in my Google News Feed. It jnforms me about news of subjects I am interested in plus the latest headlines.

 

No I have not seen any further information. I guess once the Police announced that the death was not suspicious the journalists lost interest.

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6 minutes ago, MHS said:

Then please remove it and start a new one, without any of the bickering. 

What and let the virtue signalling control freaks win. I hope not.

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30 minutes ago, MHS said:

Then please remove it and start a new one, without any of the bickering. 

It could be argued that certain members have not treated the subject with the gravitas which it merits. However, to close a topic and then start a new one with the same subject would surely be otiose.

 

Nick, eloquent as ever - but I don't see the avoidance of hurting people's feelings as a bad thing. As for new rules, yes, the forum sometimes makes up new ones, but that hasn't happened here. What is this "virtue signalling" which you keep mentioning? is that something which you've made up?

Edited by Athy

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24 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

 

 

No I have not seen any further information. I guess once the Police announced that the death was not suspicious the journalists lost interest.

Thanks.

It is surprising indeed that neither the cops nor CART has issued a relevant statement.

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17 minutes ago, Athy said:

It could be argued that certain members have not treated the subject with the gravitas which it merits. However, to close a topic and then start a new one with the same subject would surely be otiose.

 

Nick, eloquent as ever - but I don't see the avoidance of hurting people's feelings as a bad thing. As for new rules, yes, the forum sometimes makes up new ones, but that hasn't happened here. What is this "virtue signalling" which you keep mentioning? is that something which you've made up?

Actual avoidance of actually causing hurt to real people’s feelings is not a bad thing. But it is a big world with a myriad of different people and different things that might cause their feelings to be hurt. As I’ve mentioned before, offence is in the eye of the receiver and anyone can choose to be offended, or not offended, by anything. Therefore theoretically anything has the potential to be seen as offensive by someone in the 65 billion or whatever, world population. Then if you add in the elimination of any topic that some random person thinks might possibly be offensive to some other random non-specified person they have never met (offended on other’s behalf) you are truly into a thought-police-created desert. Which of course is what some (an increasing number) strive  - or at least, that any opinion not complying with the group think, be silenced.

 

Should we stop talking about Diesel engines to avoid offending Greta Thunberg’s acolytes? Should we disallow recipes involving meat in the recipient section, for fear of offending vegans? etc etc. This policy taken to its logical conclusion results in nothing allowed to be discussed.

 

On the specific point at hand, if my relative had died I wouldn’t be trawling the Internet looking for tittle-tattle. If for some weird reason I did, and found that someone had speculated a specific cause of death would not add to my grief as it would already be maxed out. It would not even impinge. Why would it? There is no moral reason for precluding such speculation, it is just an opportunity for virtue-signalling and puritanically taking control of a discussion, silencing any other views and enforcing compliance with group think.

 

If you don’t know what virtue signalling is, here are a few definitions:

”an attempt to show other people that you are a good person, for example by expressing opinions that will be acceptable to them, especially on social media:”

 

“the action or practice of publicly expressing opinions or sentiments intended to demonstrate one's good character or the moral correctness of one's position on a particular issue.“

 

”the conspicuous expression of moral values”

 

The important bit in the above is “conspicuous”. It is the advertising of one’s moral superiority to others, in order to demonstrate that you are the morally superior person. Making a lot of noise and fuss about how virtuous one is. Bigging up one’s moral virtue. Etc etc.

 

Virtue signalling is of course therefore done entirely for the benefit of the originator, and that it might be intended to benefit anyone else is an illusion.

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1 hour ago, Athy said:

We take note of the wishes and feelings of various members

 

Only when you agree with those wishes and feelings.

 

There is a majority here in favour of political threads being hidden from VNC. What notice are you taking of that?

 

 

 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Only when you agree with those wishes and feelings.

 

There is a majority here in favour of political threads being hidden from VNC. What notice are you taking of that?

 

 

 

 

 

:D

Nick, thanks for explaining "virtue signalling".

Edited by Athy

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2 hours ago, Athy said:

We take note of the wishes and feelings of various members, hence the editing of this topic, as was explained earlier.

We try, of course, to remain impartial, but I must say that a suggestion that showing respect for the dead is a "lowest common denominator" would not concur with my view. Perhaps I have misunderstood your point.

Right, one last attempt to achieve clarity and then I will abandon this thread.

 

Was my post the first one to be "hidden"?

Was my post simply a reply to your own, containing nothing new except a suggestion that yours lacked originality?

Was this "hidden" as a result of "the wishes and feelings of various members" or solely at your own behest (at least initially)?

Did you PM me to that effect immediately?

Have many of your subsequent postings given another impression of the matter?

 

To save you time researching, the answer to all five questions is "yes".

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3 minutes ago, frahkn said:

 

 

To save you time researching, the answer to all five questions is "yes".

Actually not.

In my turn, one last attempt to impress on you: this thread is about a tragic accident, not about you. Please show due respect in your posts.

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5 minutes ago, Athy said:

this thread is about a tragic accident, not about you.

Well not really, as we are not allowed to talk about the original topic. We are only allowed to issue platitudes.

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5 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

Well not really, as we are not allowed to talk about the original topic. We are only allowed to issue platitudes.

:D

On the contrary, as was made clear earlier, any further news will be welcome.

Edited by Athy

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6 minutes ago, Athy said:

:D

On the contrary, as was made clear earlier, any further news will be welcome.

So the topic is solely a vehicle for the re-publication of news already published elsewhere, with no discussion permitted. Perhaps this should be made clear for all such threads and then I’ll know to simply look at source news sites, or visit discussion forums where discussion is actually allowed.

Edited by nicknorman

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4 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

Well not really, as we are not allowed to talk about the original topic. We are only allowed to issue platitudes.

... except for Athy who since the editing spree now has the first mention of the Pusher in this thread.

 

That's in what we think is post #7, but might really be #8 or #9.

 

9 hours ago, Ange said:

This was in danger of entering panto season if I didn't offer an explanation.

You were correct! 

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38 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

... except for Athy who since the editing spree now has the first mention of the Pusher in this thread.

 

That's in what we think is post #7, but might really be #8 or #9.

 

 

Actually post no.4, not that it matters greatly; but you'll have noted that this was a genuine and serious question.

 

As the topic seems to have descended to a place for the grinding of small axes, I'm reluctantly taking MHS's advice and locking it.

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