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Overthebridge

Whilton/Venetian

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We are looking at narrowboat options for our first boat and have come across one at Whilton/Venetian. We are really interested in making an offer but it's a £1000 deposit. I was querying the terms of this as I would want an independent survey as the boat hasn't had a survey as  they are aware, or certainly if they are aware of one they aren't admitting it and don't know re overplating (it's a late 80s boat built by a boatbuilder that seems to get favourable comments on here). The response I got was that 'any requirements that came up on the survey would be sorted at our cost, as we own this particular boat. We would only be able to refund the deposit if the hull needed serious work, such as over-plating, and we were unable to get this done in a suitable time frame. We would not issue a refund on behalf of the hull already being over-plated'.

 

So with our survey, lift out fees of £300 and the £1000 deposit I'm guessing if they then confirm it has had overplating and we want to pull out we would lose this money, even though they are not able to confirm either way currently if it has had overplating (though I am guessing with it being an older boat it is more likely to be overplated).

 

Also is there any particular difference of them owning the boat v it being on brokerage? I'm guessing the price is less negotiable if they own it?

Edited by Overthebridge

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If a boat is over-plated it is usually very obvious looking at it in the water, because the over-plating should come up at least several inches above the water, and will sit proud of, and wider than the rest of the hull.

 

It would be quite unusual for (say) just a baseplate to have been over-plated, without the sides  at waterline needing it as well, as it is usually close to the waterline that is the worst bit.

 

It has not been unknown for Whilton to sell an over-plated boat where the over-plating has increased the draught to the point it is not over-plated above the waterline, (yes honestly!).  In fact they have got one that they did like that back on their books now - must be at least the second, and possibly the third time they have sold it - I hope it is not the one you have in mind!

 

The price ought to be at least as negotiable as if they didn't own it, because they put a huge an optimistic mark up on boats they buy for resale.  If you don't get a big discount, my view is you will almost certainly have paid too much.

 

Although I am no expert, I think you have more legal protection if they are selling it as the actual owner, because they are directly responsible for all statements they make about it, and if any are not true, then they have acted illegally.

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If I understand you correctly I would walk away.  I am not going to put a non-refundable deposit on the boat PERIOD. 

 

I would put up a deposit on a boat I was interested in as long as could get it back if there were unexpected issues. I would even be willing to say if the issues were above a predetermined amount of money I couldn't back out.  But no way would I GIVE them a 1,000 to determine if the boat had problems.

 

There are many more boats out there fr sale. I would just keep looking and let someone else take that risk.

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59 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

.

 

It would be quite unusual for (say) just a baseplate to have been over-plated, without the sides  at waterline needing it as well, as it is usually close to the waterline that is the worst bit.

 

A boat was lifted out for a survey early last year at a brokerage near you Alan, the sides looked immaculate even though the boat was 30 years old and we all thought it would sail through the survey.

The baseplate was pitted to 7-8mm along its whole length, the sides were almost perfect.

It also had a knackered poo tank, rear gas locker floor, gear box, stern gear. The buyers walked away with their deposit and the seller had no  choice but to pay Roger Farringdon for a new baseplate and the other works to be fixed. It sold again almost straight away.

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59 minutes ago, matty40s said:

A boat was lifted out for a survey early last year at a brokerage near you Alan, the sides looked immaculate even though the boat was 30 years old and we all thought it would sail through the survey.

The baseplate was pitted to 7-8mm along its whole length, the sides were almost perfect.

It also had a knackered poo tank, rear gas locker floor, gear box, stern gear. The buyers walked away with their deposit and the seller had no  choice but to pay Roger Farringdon for a new baseplate and the other works to be fixed. It sold again almost straight away.

I did say "quite unusual" not "unheard of".

I stick by that.

However now I know which boat is being talked about I can see it was only built with a 6mm bottom, according to the advert, so obviously any serious pitting starts to be more significant than were it built as 10mm.

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2 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

I can see it was only built with a 6mm bottom,

 

1 hour ago, matty40s said:

The baseplate was pitted to 7-8mm along its whole length, the sides were almost perfect.

 

Hmmm - no wonder it failed the survey

Was it even floating ?

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1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

Hmmm - no wonder it failed the survey

Was it even floating ?

Errm....

 

2 different boats!

  • Greenie 1

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As it is their boat and they are a trading business, then the sale comes under sales of goods legislation and is not caveat emptor, as it would be for a private sale or broker sale. This means the goods have to be of merchantable quality and they have to repair any faults that are present (wear and tear excluded).

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Without going into detail, I wouldn’t part with £1000 under these terms, with any broker or seller. In fact, even if I did, and they corrected any found defects I’d want another survey to check that nothing was missed or in the unlikely event that a ‘short cut’ had been taken. Just my own thoughts. 

  • Greenie 1

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Hasn't someone on here been down that road in the past few months, comment was made they didnt paint the steel after fitting a thrust bearing or something?

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2 hours ago, matty40s said:

Yes robtheplods new boat.

That's my next job... :)      apart from that I was impressed with the work they did, although I know they don't have a good name on here I haven't had any cause to complain.....

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On 05/12/2019 at 19:16, Overthebridge said:

We are looking at narrowboat options for our first boat and have come across one at Whilton/Venetian. We are really interested in making an offer but it's a £1000 deposit. I was querying the terms of this as I would want an independent survey as the boat hasn't had a survey as  they are aware, or certainly if they are aware of one they aren't admitting it and don't know re overplating (it's a late 80s boat built by a boatbuilder that seems to get favourable comments on here). The response I got was that 'any requirements that came up on the survey would be sorted at our cost, as we own this particular boat. We would only be able to refund the deposit if the hull needed serious work, such as over-plating, and we were unable to get this done in a suitable time frame. We would not issue a refund on behalf of the hull already being over-plated'.

 

So with our survey, lift out fees of £300 and the £1000 deposit I'm guessing if they then confirm it has had overplating and we want to pull out we would lose this money, even though they are not able to confirm either way currently if it has had overplating (though I am guessing with it being an older boat it is more likely to be overplated).

 

Also is there any particular difference of them owning the boat v it being on brokerage? I'm guessing the price is less negotiable if they own it?

 

On 05/12/2019 at 19:16, Overthebridge said:

We are looking at narrowboat options for our first boat and have come across one at Whilton/Venetian. We are really interested in making an offer but it's a £1000 deposit. I was querying the terms of this as I would want an independent survey as the boat hasn't had a survey as  they are aware, or certainly if they are aware of one they aren't admitting it and don't know re overplating (it's a late 80s boat built by a boatbuilder that seems to get favourable comments on here). The response I got was that 'any requirements that came up on the survey would be sorted at our cost, as we own this particular boat. We would only be able to refund the deposit if the hull needed serious work, such as over-plating, and we were unable to get this done in a suitable time frame. We would not issue a refund on behalf of the hull already being over-plated'.

 

So with our survey, lift out fees of £300 and the £1000 deposit I'm guessing if they then confirm it has had overplating and we want to pull out we would lose this money, even though they are not able to confirm either way currently if it has had overplating (though I am guessing with it being an older boat it is more likely to be overplated).

 

Also is there any particular difference of them owning the boat v it being on brokerage? I'm guessing the price is less negotiable if they own it?

We are just in the process of buying a boat from Whilton. 
 

Left the deposit. Yes if the engine throws a rod, it wants overplating we could pull out. 
 

the boat we are buying has some pitting, noted from the full survey. They are filling and blacking and doing a number of other things from the survey. They do negotiate a little. But remember if there’s a list of repairs they do it.

 

 

Edited by Paulhvtr
Mistake

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16 minutes ago, Paulhvtr said:

 

We are just in the process of buying a boat from Whilton. 
 

Left the deposit. Yes if the engine throws a rod, it wants overplating we could pull out. 
 

the boat we are buying has some pitting, noted from the full survey. They are filling and blacking and doing a number of other things from the survey. They do negotiate a little. But remember if there’s a list of repairs they do it.

 

 

Have a survey AFTER they have done the work.

There have been a number of boats that they have 'repaired to the survey' requirements that have sunk on the way back to the new owners moorings.

 

 

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23 minutes ago, Paulhvtr said:

 

We are just in the process of buying a boat from Whilton. 
 

Left the deposit. Yes if the engine throws a rod, it wants overplating we could pull out. 
 

the boat we are buying has some pitting, noted from the full survey. They are filling and blacking and doing a number of other things from the survey. They do negotiate a little. But remember if there’s a list of repairs they do it.

 

 

Please don't rely on any survey they have done with their choice of surveyor.

Get your own independent one - history shows that anything less could be reckless.
 

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Yes definately use your own surveyor...

 

Ours managed to get Whilton to:

 

  • Black the hull
  • fit 6 x new anodes
  • Replace stern tube
  • Replace bottom rudder bearing
  • Apply swans neck bends on bilge pump tubes (tubes and bilge pumps replaced)
  • Clear out engine bay of water and service engine
  • Replace antifreeze
  • Replace bow thruster battery
  • Rectify gas leak/replace gas hose tail (BSS)
  • Replace multistove chimney (BSS)
  • Fit smoke alarms
  • Protect woodwork near webasto heater (BSS)

 

and he went back to confirm all this was done also.

 

  • Greenie 3

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10 hours ago, robtheplod said:

Yes definately use your own surveyor...

 

Ours managed to get Whilton to:

 

  • Black the hull
  • fit 6 x new anodes
  • Replace stern tube
  • Replace bottom rudder bearing
  • Apply swans neck bends on bilge pump tubes (tubes and bilge pumps replaced)
  • Clear out engine bay of water and service engine
  • Replace antifreeze
  • Replace bow thruster battery
  • Rectify gas leak/replace gas hose tail (BSS)
  • Replace multistove chimney (BSS)
  • Fit smoke alarms
  • Protect woodwork near webasto heater (BSS)

 

and he went back to confirm all this was done also.

 

How nice to hear of a good experience with a surveyor when so often we hear them being berated.  Surely there are good ones doing a good job for their client.  Might be worth giving yours a bit of exposure Rob.

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5 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

How nice to hear of a good experience with a surveyor when so often we hear them being berated.  Surely there are good ones doing a good job for their client.  Might be worth giving yours a bit of exposure Rob.

it was Michael Clarke. He's on Whiton's list of surveyors but I got written assurances from him he is independent and not in collaboration with Whilton.

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Michael is very thorough, although does suffer the 'non-working bilge pump' trait which seems to be a viral condition through all the surveyors this autumn.

  • Greenie 1

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7 hours ago, robtheplod said:

it was Michael Clarke. He's on Whiton's list of surveyors but I got written assurances from him he is independent and not in collaboration with Whilton.

Michael did mine. Excellent service 

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Hi,

 

Just to add to all of the other comments, I have just purchased my first all steel boat and IMO if you have this level of concern, I would walk away, as someone else pointed out, there are many boats for sale.

 

On the point of surveyors, I use Justin Green who was on the list at Calcutt boats from where I purchased mine and can't recommend him highly enough. A jolly nice chap, very accommodating and very thorough, I mean VERY thorough.

 

I can honestly say that if and when I purchase another boat, even if it was out of his immediate area, I would be more than happy to pay his travelling expenses and no I am not related, just a very happy client.   

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