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MartynG

Hull Lagoon Project

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2 hours ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

Broad as it's long really, if you'd carried on up to the M62 and then the A63, the difference in time is minimal. Of course you get a nicer view over the bridge, money well spent:unsure:

Don't forget the M18 first:)

Howard

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Interesting project proposal.

 

The family hale from Hessle, so in 2013 we went to have a look at the city.

 

Before we visit such historic locations, (with water) I often look on Google Earth to gain some form of historical insight. 
The view of Hull included the remains of several large old basins and a potentially fascinating urban/maritime landscape interface. 

Imaging my disappointment when we arrived to find that what was the main dock, Princes Dock, right in the city centre, empty of anything that could float, or in fact any life whatsoever.

 In a city centre???

(An appalling shopping centre has been dumped in part of it.)

The contrast between this and such locations as the Liverpool Waterfront, 

Copenhagen, Nyhaven Canal or Bristol Floating Dock was appalling.  
All have trip boats feeding in movement and life.

The vibrant outer docks, “Humber” and “Railway Dock”, are cut off from the city centre by the awful and mundane A63 Dock Rd.
In effect a horizontal “Berlin Wall”.

 

Reconnecting the city and Princes dock with the river via Humber Dock should have been done as part of the 2017 City of Culture regeneration work. 

Options included a lift bridge or just lifting a part of the A63 road.

Truly a lost opportunity. 

All it needed was a little imagination and they would have had a waterfront legacy to rival Liverpool.

 

However when I stood back and took a good look, the obvious long term, thing was to link all the docks including Albert Dock via just such a project as is envisaged in this proposal. 

 

I wish them well.

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54 minutes ago, Martin@75 said:

Interesting project proposal.

 

The family hale from Hessle, so in 2013 we went to have a look at the city.

 

Before we visit such historic locations, (with water) I often look on Google Earth to gain some form of historical insight. 
The view of Hull included the remains of several large old basins and a potentially fascinating urban/maritime landscape interface. 

Imaging my disappointment when we arrived to find that what was the main dock, Princes Dock, right in the city centre, empty of anything that could float, or in fact any life whatsoever.

 In a city centre???

(An appalling shopping centre has been dumped in part of it.)

The contrast between this and such locations as the Liverpool Waterfront, 

Copenhagen, Nyhaven Canal or Bristol Floating Dock was appalling.  
All have trip boats feeding in movement and life.

The vibrant outer docks, “Humber” and “Railway Dock”, are cut off from the city centre by the awful and mundane A63 Dock Rd.
In effect a horizontal “Berlin Wall”.

 

Reconnecting the city and Princes dock with the river via Humber Dock should have been done as part of the 2017 City of Culture regeneration work. 

Options included a lift bridge or just lifting a part of the A63 road.

Truly a lost opportunity. 

All it needed was a little imagination and they would have had a waterfront legacy to rival Liverpool.

 

However when I stood back and took a good look, the obvious long term, thing was to link all the docks including Albert Dock via just such a project as is envisaged in this proposal. 

 

I wish them well.

You may be pleased to hear that a modern bridge has been built near Humber Dock and will be put in place across Castle Street (A63) next weekend which will join Humber and Railway Docks to the rest of the City. 

 

Howard

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9 hours ago, howardang said:

You may be pleased to hear that a modern bridge has been built near Humber Dock and will be put in place across Castle Street (A63) next weekend which will join Humber and Railway Docks to the rest of the City. 

 

Howard

Us arriving into Humber Dock and then thru to Railway Dock

 

The new bridge will make a big difference.

 

 

CAM00067.jpg

CAM00080.jpg

  • Greenie 1

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Absolutely amasing!

I have been thinking about that on and off ever since we were in Hull.

Please keep us posted should be a few good bridge pic's.

 

The dead water space in 2013 and the dead dockside with the shopping centre access way.

 

Be good to see a then and now in 2-3 years.

 

IMG_6802.jpg

IMG_6801.jpeg

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The footbridge looks like a long route for pedestrians and considerably longer  for anyone unable to use stairs.

Presumably the existing pedestrian road crossing will be taken away?  

Road traffic may benefit from fewer delays. Otherwise I am not sure what the footbridge will achieve.

 

While in Hull in July 2019 the city centre was pretty dead in early evening as we walked from the railway station to the marina.  Beggars and street cleaners being in the majority of people in the streets. Most  restaurants near the Princess Quay area were not open in the evenings.  I can only assume the city centre area to be considered unsafe at night. 

 

 

 

  • Greenie 1

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5 hours ago, MartynG said:

The footbridge looks like a long route for pedestrians and considerably longer  for anyone unable to use stairs.

Presumably the existing pedestrian road crossing will be taken away?  

Road traffic may benefit from fewer delays. Otherwise I am not sure what the footbridge will achieve.

 

While in Hull in July 2019 the city centre was pretty dead in early evening as we walked from the railway station to the marina.  Beggars and street cleaners being in the majority of people in the streets. Most  restaurants near the Princess Quay area were not open in the evenings.  I can only assume the city centre area to be considered unsafe at night. 

 

 

 

The footbridge will replace the existing pedestrian crossings and working in conjunction with work at the Myton Street roundabout will  eliminate the stop and start aspect in Castle Street which presently exists. It is no further for pedestrians to walk than the existing route across the pedestrian crossing, and I understand that the design incorporates a lift at each end from street level for wheelchair users and those who find stairs difficult. This bridge has been long awaited and is a great improvement on the current dangerous crossings. It will open up the Marina and Fruit Market Area which also contains a new housing development and cafes, restaurants and art galleries,  and which  has been isolated from the rest of the City up to now. I think most locals are very much looking forward to seeing it operational next Spring.  It has been a very long time coming.:cheers:

 

Howard

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If anyone thinks Kingston upon Hull is a rough place today lol. I went to Merchant navy officer training school there from 69 to 71 and oh boy oh boy it has much improved. We still walked to school along streets of bombed housing yet to be cleared from WW2.

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28 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

If anyone thinks Kingston upon Hull is a rough place today lol. I went to Merchant navy officer training school there from 69 to 71 and oh boy oh boy it has much improved. We still walked to school along streets of bombed housing yet to be cleared from WW2.

Yes, much cleaned up since those days and City of Culture played a major role in changing the image from what was regarded as one of the heaviest  bombed city in the country to what it is today. 

 

Howard

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2 hours ago, howardang said:

The footbridge will replace the existing pedestrian crossings and working in conjunction with work at the Myton Street roundabout will  eliminate the stop and start aspect in Castle Street which presently exists. It is no further for pedestrians to walk than the existing route across the pedestrian crossing, and I understand that the design incorporates a lift at each end from street level for wheelchair users and those who find stairs difficult. This bridge has been long awaited and is a great improvement on the current dangerous crossings. It will open up the Marina and Fruit Market Area which also contains a new housing development and cafes, restaurants and art galleries,  and which  has been isolated from the rest of the City up to now. I think most locals are very much looking forward to seeing it operational next Spring.  It has been a very long time coming.:cheers:

 

Howard

Ops I miss read Alans post as a new road lift bridge over the old dock entry.

I knew it was to good to be true.

So much for new life in the old dock!!!!
Road traffic must come first! 

Have to send the local council to Liverpool to get a few tips.

 

We also hit Hull in the late afternoon, the only place open was 1884 and it was brilliant. Would recommend it.

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3 minutes ago, Martin@75 said:

 

We also hit Hull in the late afternoon, the only place open was 1884 and it was brilliant. Would recommend it.

Expensive?

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1 hour ago, MartynG said:

Expensive?

Having just googled and looked at the menu it is not expensive. It may be on the top side for Yorkshire but its cheaper than most pubs in our suvern mooring area.

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35 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Having just googled and looked at the menu it is not expensive. It may be on the top side for Yorkshire but its cheaper than most pubs in our suvern mooring area.

I see the former 1884 Dock Street kitchen closed in 2018. It was very expensive. 

The current business also called 1884 is a tapas bar.

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4 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

If anyone thinks Kingston upon Hull is a rough place today lol. I went to Merchant navy officer training school there from 69 to 71 and oh boy oh boy it has much improved. We still walked to school along streets of bombed housing yet to be cleared from WW2.

I did my 3rd mates exams in Hull 1962 tough place with the fishing fleet still very active.

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For the record, and because it may be of interest, here are two photos of Prince's Dock before it became a shopping centre. The black and white one is from 1960 and the one in colour is pre-war.

Princes Dock1960 resized.jpg

Hullc (2).jpg

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I remember most of it at 63 my dad remembers all of it been 100 next august ?

Ull as we say it did have dark times but is getting better and better with admixture of new and old pubs

i personaly like the old town 

land of green ginger

ps my dad remembes them talking about building the Humber bridge when he was about 7or8

Jacko

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On ‎25‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 23:34, Lysander said:

Well it certainly saved me a bit of time travelling between Watford and Hull.

What, you infer that on occasion you travel TO Watford1!. It really IS the pits! (note location). If I knew 35 years ago what I know now...…………….. 

 

Just noticed that 'location' has disappeared from my details. It should read Watford:detective:

Edited by Slim
Additional info

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13 hours ago, Slim said:

What, you infer that on occasion you travel TO Watford1!. It really IS the pits! (note location). If I knew 35 years ago what I know now...…………….. 

 

Just noticed that 'location' has disappeared from my details. It should read Watford:detective:

LOL. So should mine - 38 years now...

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On 27/10/2019 at 19:59, MartynG said:

I see the former 1884 Dock Street kitchen closed in 2018. It was very expensive. 

The current business also called 1884 is a tapas bar.

Interesting that it closed. 

Yes 

It was expensive but we hit it on “Market Day” when we got a big discount. 

Of more significance, on the day, was that the only other option was a very very, naff, Take-Away, which I think says it all.

Most other waterside locations like this would have a number of eateries’ with different price points.

But then punters would have boats and movement to enjoy.

 

Returning to the original topic.

Just found a pic.

 

The new Princes Quay footbridge cost £12million.

As can be seen its very dramatic, and it has viewing galleries at each end. So Looks good.

But 

It would seem that the walkway itself is open to the elements. 

So will people cross the A63 in poor weather and remember, we are talking about an estuarial environment subject to high winds and driving rain!

 

It would be interesting to know just what the cost of an under bridge would have been as in Liverpool.

It may need lifting the A63 a little but it has capacity for this.

Such a bridge could re open the waterway and would not be subject to poor weather. 

Even low headroom would be better than nothing.

 

image.jpg

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1 hour ago, Martin@75 said:

Interesting that it closed. 

Yes 

It was expensive but we hit it on “Market Day” when we got a big discount. 

Of more significance, on the day, was that the only other option was a very very, naff, Take-Away, which I think says it all.

Most other waterside locations like this would have a number of eateries’ with different price points.

But then punters would have boats and movement to enjoy.

 

Returning to the original topic.

Just found a pic.

 

The new Princes Quay footbridge cost £12million.

As can be seen its very dramatic, and it has viewing galleries at each end. So Looks good.

But 

It would seem that the walkway itself is open to the elements. 

So will people cross the A63 in poor weather and remember, we are talking about an estuarial environment subject to high winds and driving rain!

 

It would be interesting to know just what the cost of an under bridge would have been as in Liverpool.

It may need lifting the A63 a little but it has capacity for this.

Such a bridge could re open the waterway and would not be subject to poor weather. 

Even low headroom would be better than nothing.

 

image.jpg

We are where we are with the new bridge, and as I have mentioned earlier it has been a long time coming. I note your comment about an "underbridge reopening a waterway. I wonder which waterway you mean?  If you are speaking about the entrance channel into Princes Dock that is a non-starter for a number of reasons. Firstly it would require the demolition of Princes Quay shopping centre which would be a massive undertaking. Secondy, the major road which runs right across it is among the busiest roads in East Yorkshire and it would cost a huge amount of money to re route it. Thirdly, access to Princes Dock would be limited to pleasure craft and they would have to transit an already busy marina.

 

Howard

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It is quite 'tight' coming down the 'East' wall - particularly when the Navy training ship or the Border Force boats are moored on the hammerhead - add in the 'old barges' permanently moored against the wall and we had about 2 foot either side to squeeze thru.

Relief as we cleared the 'narrows' and approached the visitors moorings (alongside the Spurn Lightship).

 

Mind you, it was just as tight getting onto our mooring in Railway dock - as the bridge didn't lift to vertical when had to come thru 'on one side' with about 1 foot clearance between the mast and the bridge, and the hull and the wall.

 

(We are 23 foot beam)

 

 

 

 

 

CAM00075.jpg

CAM00082.jpg

Edited by Alan de Enfield

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Pity they didn't think of the lagoon idea before the put the main road from Europe through the middle of the town; but they didn't, and now they're trying to improve matters.

 

Highways England did an impressive time-lapse of how they put the new pedestrian bridge in place:

 

https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/castle-street-bridge-in-place-3499515?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar&fbclid=IwAR0o2p3qusXrAfaSQhyqecdsRBPKapWJ91LQORiZW6rZA_oS4DdQ3B7U-2A

 

 

It's part of a multi-million scheme to improve traffic flow to and from the docks.There is a nice simulation of how it will all look when it's finished:

 

https://youtu.be/IVvX14tzr5M

 

It should improve the town enormously, even if we don't get the lagoon.

 

As for "rough", we've encountered more drink-fuelled worrying behaviour in picturesque market towns than we have in cities that we've boated through.

 

Hull is no rougher than anywhere else, and better than many.

 

Hope the links work, but in case they don't, here is our new bridge the morning after it was put in place.

 

 

 

 

IMG_0559.JPG

Edited by DRP

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On 27 October 2019 at 20:02, Dav and Pen said:

I did my 3rd mates exams in Hull 1962 tough place with the fishing fleet still very active.

My first connections with Hull stem from1963 and I can honestly say that in those days  I didn't find it as tough/rough as you seemed to have done. Compared to some other cities I think it stood up reasonably well, although sometimes maybe living in the past.It has always been at a disadvantage by being at the end of the line so to speak. At long last, it seems  be trying to catch up with other large towns and cities, but sometimes,  it is occasionally held back by a lack of forward vision and boldness.

 

Howard

Edited by howardang

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