Overwhelmed Newbies - info and help reqired

[Neal Smith]

Hi all

 

My fiancee and I are getting married next year and love the idea of making our life on a narrowboat/wide beam and would be looking for a residential mooring with cruising at weekends and holidays. We have started searching the net over the last few weeks and doing the fact finding for costs, moorings, vessels and up-keep, but there is some information that seems hard to come by or isn’t covered (the hard nitty gritty if you like!) and we have a series of (likely stupid) questions and would be grateful for general advice.

 

We know that we need to spend more and more time on a boat and in the worse weather to make sure we are doing the right thing, be preparing to downsize belongings etc but....

 

If you have a wide beam boat that you are living on constantly, and you only plan to cruise at leisure, is it worth sacrificing narrower canals for the extra space?

 

When residentially moored you can have mainline power for tv's, washing machines etc and we understand that you can have these when cruising off batteries, but how exactly does that work? You have to get them charged via a generator right? What kind of size generator would we need for the usual appliances, tv, laptop etc? I would have thought that a generator made a huge noise? How exactly does it work? I have seen people talk about alternators but confess I am not quite sure what they are or what they do?

 

I am sorry to say that while I was aware winter was cold and mooring up for the winter was a good idea, it never occurred to me that canals might freeze for extended periods!! Does that happen often?!

 

I may have misread or been reading about a river, but have seen posts that say grey water can go straight over the side and was better than a grey water tank? I thought that pumping it into a tank and then emptying somewhere was the done thing? I know cassettes get emptied at designated spots! We have also seen some new composting toilets on line – are these the ‘up-and-coming’ thing or was the shop lying to me? lol

 

Thanks very much for your help, and sorry if we look like idiots! We do intend to do more research before we jump in at the deep end! lol

[Smelly]

Hi all

 

My fiancee and I are getting married next year and love the idea of making our life on a narrowboat/wide beam and would be looking for a residential mooring with cruising at weekends and holidays. We have started searching the net over the last few weeks and doing the fact finding for costs, moorings, vessels and up-keep, but there is some information that seems hard to come by or isn’t covered (the hard nitty gritty if you like!) and we have a series of (likely stupid) questions and would be grateful for general advice.

 

We know that we need to spend more and more time on a boat and in the worse weather to make sure we are doing the right thing, be preparing to downsize belongings etc but....

 

If you have a wide beam boat that you are living on constantly, and you only plan to cruise at leisure, is it worth sacrificing narrower canals for the extra space? Depends on whether you fancy a floating flat or whether you want a boat really.

When residentially moored you can have mainline power for tv's, washing machines etc and we understand that you can have these when cruising off batteries, but how exactly does that work? You have to get them charged via a generator right? What kind of size generator would we need for the usual appliances, tv, laptop etc? I would have thought that a generator made a huge noise? How exactly does it work? I have seen people talk about alternators but confess I am not quite sure what they are or what they do? Your engine will charge your batteries via the alternator, a genny via a battery charger. If you spend enough money you can buy a very quiet genny the Honda Eu range are highly rated... Washing machines are very greedy beasties and you need an expensive set up or a big generator to run a traditional one although it's not unkown

 

I am sorry to say that while I was aware winter was cold and mooring up for the winter was a good idea, it never occurred to me that canals might freeze for extended periods!! Does that happen often?! 6 years living aboard on the canal and three of those I've been frozen in for a couple of weeks at least. We ran out of water & coal winter just gone and ended up humping water butts & coal around for a few days, don't know about the rivers tho

 

I may have misread or been reading about a river, but have seen posts that say grey water can go straight over the side and was better than a grey water tank? I thought that pumping it into a tank and then emptying somewhere was the done thing? I know cassettes get emptied at designated spots! We have also seen some new composting toilets on line – are these the ‘up-and-coming’ thing or was the shop lying to me? lol

 

Thanks very much for your help, and sorry if we look like idiots! We do intend to do more research before we jump in at the deep end! lol

 

If you can afford it a composting loo is the way to go as it involves no additives or additional costs, just a shovel and some patience

 

You've got a lot of reading to do... good luck

 

Dan

[denboy]

Hi all

 

My fiancee and I are getting married next year and love the idea of making our life on a narrowboat/wide beam and would be looking for a residential mooring with cruising at weekends and holidays. We have started searching the net over the last few weeks and doing the fact finding for costs, moorings, vessels and up-keep, but there is some information that seems hard to come by or isn't covered (the hard nitty gritty if you like!) and we have a series of (likely stupid) questions and would be grateful for general advice.

 

We know that we need to spend more and more time on a boat and in the worse weather to make sure we are doing the right thing, be preparing to downsize belongings etc but....

 

If you have a wide beam boat that you are living on constantly, and you only plan to cruise at leisure, is it worth sacrificing narrower canals for the extra space?

 

When residentially moored you can have mainline power for tv's, washing machines etc and we understand that you can have these when cruising off batteries, but how exactly does that work?Usually of an inverter which changes 12 volt to 240 volt You have to get them charged via a generator right? What kind of size generator would we need for the usual appliances, tv, laptop etc? I would have thought that a generator made a huge noise? How exactly does it work? I have seen people talk about alternatorsthey charge your battys but confess I am not quite sure what they are or what they do?

 

I am sorry to say that while I was aware winter was cold and mooring up for the winter was a good idea, it never occurred to me that canals might freeze for extended periods!! Does that happen often?! on some canals more than others

 

I may have misread or been reading about a river, but have seen posts that say grey water this is water fom your sink and shower(not sewage) can go straight over the side and was better than a grey water tank? I thought that pumping it into a tank and then emptying somewhere was the done thing?Only if you decide to have a pump out loo I know cassettes get emptied at designated spots! We have also seen some new composting toilets on line – are these the 'up-and-coming' thing or was the shop lying to me? lolthere are some about

 

Thanks very much for your help, and sorry if we look like idiots! We do intend to do more research before we jump in at the deep end! lol

[alan_fincher]

What the other have said, plus.....

 

The alternator is the "generator" on your engine the produces 12 volts to charge you battery bank - exactly the same as a car.

 

For many things it is possible to arrange ways of running directly from 12 volt batteries, rather than going through the inefficiencies of changing it into 240V.

 

In particular flat-screen TVs can be run more or less directly off 12 volts, and 12 volt adaptors can be bought for most laptops.

 

Washing machines, by comparison, are power guzzlers, and some liveaboards chose launderette visits as an alternative to needing to generate a lot of power, (if the boat is not connected to the mains via a land-line). You can get much smaller, more economical twin-tubs, but these only take a much smaller load of clothes, the advantage being they need massively less power to run.

 

If you elect to have an electric fridge, (whether 12 volt or 230 volt), you may well find it uses as much power as just about all other electrical things on board combined. (Simply because it runs all the time, not for a small part of each day).

 

Good luck!

 

Alan

[mrsmelly]

Hi all

 

My fiancee and I are getting married next year and love the idea of making our life on a narrowboat/wide beam and would be looking for a residential mooring with cruising at weekends and holidays. We have started searching the net over the last few weeks and doing the fact finding for costs, moorings, vessels and up-keep, but there is some information that seems hard to come by or isn’t covered (the hard nitty gritty if you like!) and we have a series of (likely stupid) questions and would be grateful for general advice.

 

We know that we need to spend more and more time on a boat and in the worse weather to make sure we are doing the right thing, be preparing to downsize belongings etc but....

 

If you have a wide beam boat that you are living on constantly, and you only plan to cruise at leisure, is it worth sacrificing narrower canals for the extra space?

 

When residentially moored you can have mainline power for tv's, washing machines etc and we understand that you can have these when cruising off batteries, but how exactly does that work? You have to get them charged via a generator right? What kind of size generator would we need for the usual appliances, tv, laptop etc? I would have thought that a generator made a huge noise? How exactly does it work? I have seen people talk about alternators but confess I am not quite sure what they are or what they do?

 

I am sorry to say that while I was aware winter was cold and mooring up for the winter was a good idea, it never occurred to me that canals might freeze for extended periods!! Does that happen often?!

 

I may have misread or been reading about a river, but have seen posts that say grey water can go straight over the side and was better than a grey water tank? I thought that pumping it into a tank and then emptying somewhere was the done thing? I know cassettes get emptied at designated spots! We have also seen some new composting toilets on line – are these the ‘up-and-coming’ thing or was the shop lying to me? lol

 

Thanks very much for your help, and sorry if we look like idiots! We do intend to do more research before we jump in at the deep end! lol

 

Hi Neal

 

All these questions and many more have already been done to death, I suggest you try the search thingy for old threads and read em all.

 

Good luck

 

[Lady Muck]

If you have a wide beam boat that you are living on constantly, and you only plan to cruise at leisure, is it worth sacrificing narrower canals for the extra space?

This is something that only you can answer. Have you boated before? Get some experience of boating and then you'll have a better idea of whether you enjoy it or not - not every liveaboard I know does lots of boating or enjoys it, most of my marina neighbours never move their boats at all. I love boating and intend to fully exxplore the canal system, so only narrow will do for me. The widebeam owners that I know only take the boat out once or twice a year. Depending on the boat and where you moor it, I gather it can be a bit of a kerfuffle.

 

When residentially moored you can have mainline power for tv's, washing machines etc and we understand that you can have these when cruising off batteries, but how exactly does that work? You have to get them charged via a generator right? What kind of size generator would we need for the usual appliances, tv, laptop etc? I would have thought that a generator made a huge noise? How exactly does it work? I have seen people talk about alternators but confess I am not quite sure what they are or what they do?

 

Alternators charge your batteries via the engine. We also have a Honda generator (the quietest and most expensive of the protables) and we use that sometimes instead of the engine if we are moored up and away from the mooring. Some boats have huge built in generators - very expensive.

 

I am sorry to say that while I was aware winter was cold and mooring up for the winter was a good idea, it never occurred to me that canals might freeze for extended periods!! Does that happen often?!

This winter our river froze over lots - for almost two weeks at one point but it was a very cold winter. Shouldn't be a problem if you are organised. I was checking the weather forecast every day so I managed to fill the water tank up before the marina pipes froze solid. Not everyone was so lucky!

 

I may have misread or been reading about a river, but have seen posts that say grey water can go straight over the side and was better than a grey water tank? I thought that pumping it into a tank and then emptying somewhere was the done thing? I know cassettes get emptied at designated spots! We have also seen some new composting toilets on line – are these the ‘up-and-coming’ thing or was the shop lying to me? lol

Compost toilets are a good idea in principle but in reality, Iknow people who got rid as they are a faff. I think you have to treat them as a 'hobby' as they need so much attention. Grey water goes into the cut but you are politely requested to consider the cleaning products you use - many of us use ecover or similar.

 

Thanks very much for your help, and sorry if we look like idiots! We do intend to do more research before we jump in at the deep end! lol

We all have to start somewhere, better to ask those questions now rather than later.

[Albion]

snipped

This winter our river froze over lots - for almost two weeks at one point but it was a very cold winter. Shouldn't be a problem if you are organised. I was checking the weather forecast every day so I managed to fill the water tank up before the marina pipes froze solid. Not everyone was so lucky!

Lady Muck has raised a good point here. It is often the fact that the water taps freeze, rather than the fact that you can't boat through the ice to get to them, that is the critical factor. The taps will almost certainly be frozen up before the boat gets iced in (unless the taps are well lagged and the supply pipes deeply buried. But this problem can be anticipated and your tank topped up at all times the tap is flowing. Sometimes it is just the exposed tap that is frozen and the old trick of a kettle full of boiling water poured slowly over it will clear it.

 

Compost toilets are a good idea in principle but in reality, I know people who got rid as they are a faff. I think you have to treat them as a 'hobby' as they need so much attention. Grey water goes into the cut but you are politely requested to consider the cleaning products you use - many of us use ecover or similar.

I know one person who had one and it hasn't been a roaring success. For those moored nearby the stench from the exhaust pipe was disgusting and the balance between fluids and solids was difficult to get right so that the bio-mass was too wet and wouldn't compost. On his, it also used electricity to power a heater to aid the composting process. Powering a heating coil by electricity (energy) to warm a soggy bio-mass doesn't sound sensible or particularly eco to me. As far as I am concerned they are a waste of space.

Roger

[blackrose]

The widebeam owners that I know only take the boat out once or twice a year. Depending on the boat and where you moor it, I gather it can be a bit of a kerfuffle.

That's a bit of a myth. Having owned both I can say that my widebeam is a lot easier to move than my old narrowboat.the choice between wide or narrow basically boils down to how much internal space you want vs. how much of the system you want to cruise. Unfortunately I have to work for a living so moving around thew entire system is not an option and my boat is primarily my home. If I want to see narrow canals I can always hire a boat.

Anyway, as Lady M said, lots of narrow boats rarely move.

Edited July 12, 2009 by blackrose

[Lady Muck]

Having owned both I can say that my widebeam is a lot easier to move than my old narrowboat.

 

It does depend on where you are though and the type of boat doesn't it? You are well placed for widebeam cruising. My neighbour has to don a wetsuit to clear his weedhatch!

[blackrose]

It doe s depend on where you are though and the type of boat doesn't it? You are well placed for widebeam cruising. My neighbour has to don a wetsuit to clear his weedhatch!

Why?

[Lady Muck]

I'm losing the plot - I meant propellor. He doesn't have a weedhatch on his Dutch Barge.

[Soulgirl]

Hi Neal

 

All these questions and many more have already been done to death, I suggest you try the search thingy for old threads and read em all.

 

Good luck

 

 

So obvious! But as it's a discussion forum and not wikipedia the idea of asking a series of questions where answers will all be in one place is kind of appealing don't you think?

[Roger Gunkel]

Hi Neal,

 

Welcome to the forum and don't apologise for asking questions that have been asked many times before. Searching is all very well if you know how to do it and what to look for, but part of the fun of a forum is getting to know people by talking to them and asking questions, getting involved etc.

 

I'm with Blackrose on the widebeam question. We have lived on our widebeam for 5 years and we went wide because we didn't want what we considered to be the cramped conditions of a narrowboat. If you are intending to live in an area with enough navigable wide waterways to satisfy any general cruising requirements that you may have, then there is no substitute for the space of a widebeam. Forget the suggestion that a widebeam is a flat not a boat, because a widebeam is a BOAT and a narrowboat is a NARROW BOAT hence the name! NBs are peculiar to the UK canal system and you only really need one if you want access to the whole system. As both Lady M and Blackrose correctly pointed out, the vast majority of boats do little cruising, and if your first priority is your boat as a home, then you can always hire a NB for the odd trip on waterways that a widebeam won't reach. Widebeams are also no more difficult to handle than any other boat, which all have different characteristics.

 

Our moorings are permanent residential, with mains hookup, waste disposal etc. This means that we are able to run domestic fridge/freezer, washing machine, TV, computers etc. We don't subscribe to the idea that you are not a real boater unless you are permanently cold, damp and living with the minimum of facilities, any more than you have to have a tin bath and outside toilet to be a real house dweller.

 

When we are off cruising, we turn our fridge freezer to minimum, only boosting it when the engine is running and the batteries are charging. We also use far less electrical power by choice when cruising, usually doing any clothes washing on our return to the mains hookup. By far less electrical power. I mean using the TV built in speakers rather than our surround sound, less time surfing, not rehearsing our music show (we are musicians), less TV on in the background etc. Our inverter and battery bank still gives us the power for our normal needs.

 

We have a 1000 litre water tank, which is always kept topped up in the winter, so that when the water taps freeze, we cut back on the washing machine, have less baths, and use less water for washing up etc, without noticing any real inconvenience. We can make the water last up to 4 weeks if neccessary.

 

We heat the boat with solid fuel and logs, buying all our Winter fuel in the summer at the cheapest price. We keep some in a bankside lockup and enough on the boat for about 6 weeks. We have never been frozen in, but then we are on a river rather than a canal.

 

We use a cassette toilet, which we empty every 3 days or so, finding it cheap, convenient and clean to use. Personally I wouldn't even consider a composting toilet, because of the size, cost, smell and constant attention required. Don't forget they also need occasional emptying out.

 

If you want to see any pics of our boat, they are accessible through our profile, as are pictures of several peoples boats on here. Have a look at various people's blogs aswell.

 

Do your research carefully, talk to lots of people, keep asking questions and if you go ahead I hope you enjoy the life as much as we do.

 

Roger

[Strads]

Would re-iterate the oft said words -

 

go in with eyes open wide - look for both pro's and cons to you own siutation re work / location / time available / interests

 

Boats take a reasonable amount of time - but thats part the plus factor for many..

 

Do as much research as you can, walk down to look at the actual potential moorings - google maps ok, but dosnt give a 3d, and real feel,, such as mud, distance on a poor path is more crucial than a good one,,

 

visit and look at a dozen diferent boats of all types / layout configartions, some will suit some you will hate..

 

make a must have list and dont wont list to help select..

 

a budget for the boat -

buying the boat (survey fees etc)

 

running the boat - several others on this topic currently - and add a % for the unforseen and screw up... something will need sorting - (boats have sevral pumps and budgeting for changing them is wise etc)

 

Fuel cost / heating costs / generators - noise / space to have one if no mains hook up..

 

All need factoring..

 

sounds like a summers research project to me!! have fun

[Chagall]

Hi Neal,

 

Welcome to the forum and don't apologise for asking questions that have been asked many times before. Searching is all very well if you know how to do it and what to look for, but part of the fun of a forum is getting to know people by talking to them and asking questions, getting involved etc.

 

Do your research carefully, talk to lots of people, keep asking questions and if you go ahead I hope you enjoy the life as much as we do.

 

Roger

 

Roger, You're a Star! Yes searches can be done for FAQ's but us newbies don't find it easy to know what we actually want to search and all the terms (please don't all howl at once how easy it is and what dolts we are!) its great to have this sort of contact that has taken your time to compose, makes newbies more confident than searching forlornly....

Thanks.

[WotEver]

please don't all howl at once how easy it is and what dolts we are

 

No chance of that - the Search facility on this site has me completely baffled; it NEVER finds me what I want. Even if I know a posting is a few weeks old it's faster to just go manually looking to see if the subject rings a bell than to try the Search facility.

 

Maybe it's just me.

 

T

[Mister Allnut]

Hire or borrow in winter. For me the worst thing about winter is the dark. Dawn at 8.30 sundown 16.00 makes for a short day. But the days can be spectacular! Really, experiance boating in the depths of winter before commiting to live aboard

[wrigglefingers]

Hire or borrow in winter. For me the worst thing about winter is the dark. Dawn at 8.30 sundown 16.00 makes for a short day. But the days can be spectacular! Really, experiance boating in the depths of winter before commiting to live aboard

 

My best boating experiences have been on a cold frosty morning! Makes you glad to be alive nosing down a deserted cut, with just yerself, partner of choice, in my case Thea-the-cat and formally Astro-the-cat and a steaming cup of coffee. Nowt finer!

[Neal Smith]

Thanks for all your input guys! You've made a newbie feel very welcome! I'd already decided to hire at winter to see how we are going beofre posting as it seemed to us to be the best test...

 

So, I have (tried) to find this (and if you thoght the last batch of questions were innocent!)

 

If you are cruising I assume you can get water, empty cassettes and grey water if needed etc by stopping off at marina’s, boat yards for a fee. I can’t imagine that there are areas along the way for emptying cassettes but are there stand pipes along the bank? (depends where you are, I guess!)

[WotEver]

I can’t imagine that there are areas along the way for emptying cassettes...

 

You need to work harder on your imagination

 

They're called Elsan points or Sanitation Stations and they're dotted around all over but never where you need one

 

Elsan points always have a water tap, and other water points are also liberally dotted around.

 

T

[Naughty Cal]

Hire or borrow in winter. For me the worst thing about winter is the dark. Dawn at 8.30 sundown 16.00 makes for a short day. But the days can be spectacular! Really, experiance boating in the depths of winter before commiting to live aboard

 

I shall second that. Winter boating is a whole different experience. We really enjoyed it last winter (our first aboard)

[RLWP]

If you are cruising I assume you can get water, empty cassettes and grey water if needed etc by stopping off at marina's, boat yards for a fee. I can't imagine that there are areas along the way for emptying cassettes but are there stand pipes along the bank? (depends where you are, I guess!)

 

Grey water goes overboard. Sinks and basins drain straight into the cut, baths and showers have pumps to do the same.

 

Richard

[Neal Smith]

You need to work harder on your imagination

 

They're called Elsan points or Sanitation Stations and they're dotted around all over but never where you need one

 

Elsan points always have a water tap, and other water points are also liberally dotted around.

 

T

 

i did worked on my imagination once, but it was a term of the parole conditions that i didnlt do it again........