Weight of empty 13kg gas cylinder?

[aracer]

I was looking to try and measure the amount of gas left in my cylinders and have a reasonably accurate hanging scale - does anybody know what the weight of an empty cylinder is (or is it not consistent enough)? Any alternative suggestions on checking the amount of gas remaining?

[alan_fincher]

They all vary slightly, but it should be tamped somewhere into the top.

Normally on the "handle"/"valve guard", I think?

EDIT:

Actually, on reflection, I think it is usually these days on the alloy coloured plate trapped in below the valve.

Can't quickly find a photo on a propane cylinder, but this butane one shows it clearly......

Edited November 22, 2018 by alan_fincher

[Jen-in-Wellies]

I was given some magnetic gas level gauge strips to stick on the side of a cylinder. A bit like this. They are liquid crystal temperature indicators and the idea is that as gas is withdrawn, there is a drop in temperature at the liquid surface as it evaporates, which shows up as a colour change on the strip at the appropriate level. Only problem is that you can't see the strip easily with the cylinder down in the locker, so I never tried using them. I use the "when the cooker goes out while doing your tea, then the cylinder needs changing" approach instead.

 

Jen

[Jen-in-Wellies]

37 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

They all vary slightly, but it should be tamped somewhere into the top.

Normally on the "handle"/"valve guard", I think?

EDIT:

Actually, on reflection, I think it is usually these days on the alloy coloured plate trapped in below the valve.

Can't quickly find a photo on a propane cylinder, but this butane one shows it clearly......

I had a look at the thin collar plates on my propane cylinders and can't find anything that looks like a tare weight.

What you could do is work backwards. Weigh the cylinder full when you buy it, then subtract the current weight to get the amount of gas consumed. When that number approaches 13Kg, then it is nearly empty. Some lift up luggage scales would be a cheap and easy way to do it if the cylinder is directly under the locker lid. A lifting strap to the top of the cylinder guard would allow you to weigh them in situ, provided that any BSS hold down chains were removed first. Something like this.

 

Jen

Edited November 22, 2018 by Jen-in-Wellies

[alan_fincher]

8 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

I had a look at the thin collar plates on my propane cylinders and can't find anything that looks like a tare weight.

I may be making this up, but......

Is it possible it is there but is pounds and ounces?

I know that sounds distinctly odd, but I have a vague memory that they have never changed from imperial.

I can't check one of ours, because I'm not on the boat at the moment.

Could be talking bo$$ocks though!

[Jen-in-Wellies]

16 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

I may be making this up, but......

Is it possible it is there but is pounds and ounces?

I know that sounds distinctly odd, but I have a vague memory that they have never changed from imperial.

I can't check one of ours, because I'm not on the boat at the moment.

Could be talking bo$$ocks though!

Plausible. One I've looked at had 34 10 stamped in one of the quadrants. 34lb 10oz? Roughly 15.7Kg, so could well be a tare weight. Another quadrant has 17/06, which seems light for a tare, but might be a week number and year, perhaps manufacture, or test date? Don't have a suitable empty cylinder, or set of scales to check. Anyone up for some research?

 

Jen

Edited November 22, 2018 by Jen-in-Wellies

[TheBiscuits]

40 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

I use the "when the cooker goes out while doing your tea, then the cylinder needs changing" approach instead.

The old fashioned "kettle didn't boil" gauge is too slow. Try the "Morco hot water / shower" technique which gets a much faster response, especially in winter.

 

[TheBiscuits]

4 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Anyone up for some research?

TARE WEIGHT (EMPTY)    12.7-21.9kg
GROSS WEIGHT (FULL)    25-35kg

 

https://www.calor.co.uk/shop/gas-bottles/propane-gas-bottles/13kg-propane-gas-bottle.html

 

I don't think the scales need to be that accurate if there could be a twenty pound difference between the cylinders!

[alan_fincher]

7 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Plausible. One I've looked at had 34 10 stamped in one of the quadrants. 34lb 10oz? Roughly 15.7Kg, so could well be a tare weight.

I'm now thinking I'm right and that the tare weights are still imperial, but I have access here to some luggage scales, but no suitable LPG cylinder at the moment.

There are manufacturing differences between the cylinders, so the tare weight of each will likely differ a little.  I suspect anybody who has two alongside could find slightly different numbers on each.

Edited November 22, 2018 by alan_fincher

[Machpoint005]

5 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

The old fashioned "kettle didn't boil" gauge is too slow. Try the "Morco hot water / shower" technique which gets a much faster response, especially in winter.

 

It should also be borne in mind that gas cylinders only ever run out when it is (1) dark and (2) wet outside.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

3 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

I'm now thinking I'm right and that the tare weights are still imperial, but I have access here to some luggage scales, but no suitable LPG cylinder at the moment.

There are manufacturing differences between the cylinders, so the tare weight of each will likely differ a little.  I suspect anybody who has two alongside could find slightly different numbers n each.

Yes. Another cylinder has 35 00 on it, 10 ounces more, if you are correct. Anyone got an empty cylinder and a set of luggage scales. This is starting to bug me!

Edited November 22, 2018 by Jen-in-Wellies

[TheBiscuits]

Just now, Machpoint005 said:

It should also be borne in mind that gas cylinders only ever run out when it is (1) dark and (2) wet outside.

True, but that can be helpful when you are (1) naked and (2) already wet and cold!

[Machpoint005]

2 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

the tare weights are still imperial

Not beyond the wit of man or woman to convert them to modern units, then! Try multiplying pounds by 0.454. 

[aracer]

51 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

The old fashioned "kettle didn't boil" gauge is too slow. Try the "Morco hot water / shower" technique which gets a much faster response, especially in winter.

 

Yeah, well I switched from the cylinder I'd been using to a new one when the Alde wouldn't stay alight - still enough gas to run the cooker though it was obviously not as good. However yesterday I decided it was time to properly empty the old one using the cooker and get a replacement before the one I was using ran out - having switched back I found that it would happily run the Alde and the cooker is running just fine. I've no idea what happened there. Hence I now have 2 partly used cylinders and the reason for the question!

[Alan de Enfield]

59 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

It should also be borne in mind that gas cylinders only ever run out when it is (1) dark and (2) wet outside.

AND, when you are using them.

They never seem to run out when you are not using them - I have the same problem with my stapler, start using it and it runs out !!!

[BWM]

2 hours ago, alan_fincher said:

They all vary slightly, but it should be tamped somewhere into the top.

Normally on the "handle"/"valve guard", I think?

EDIT:

Actually, on reflection, I think it is usually these days on the alloy coloured plate trapped in below the valve.

Can't quickly find a photo on a propane cylinder, but this butane one shows it clearly......

It is written on the aluminium disc below the valve in kilograms, along with the test date and a code for the next test. Just deduct 13kg from this. The increased smell is normally a giveaway that you are running low, but not always. 

[TheBiscuits]

13 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

AND, when you are using them.

They never seem to run out when you are not using them - I have the same problem with my stapler, start using it and it runs out !!!

Don't staple the orange hose if your gas runs out when you use the stapler.

 

[WotEver]

8 hours ago, aracer said:

Yeah, well I switched from the cylinder I'd been using to a new one when the Alde wouldn't stay alight - still enough gas to run the cooker though it was obviously not as good. However yesterday I decided it was time to properly empty the old one using the cooker and get a replacement before the one I was using ran out - having switched back I found that it would happily run the Alde and the cooker is running just fine. I've no idea what happened there. Hence I now have 2 partly used cylinders and the reason for the question!

Was it cold at the time?

[aracer]

1 hour ago, WotEver said:

Was it cold at the time?

No - a lot warmer than it is now.

 

I didn't have my scale with me today, but a quick heft test the one I thought had run out feels significantly lighter than the other one (despite the cylinder being marked as 10oz heavier). So I know which one to run down and that I have a reasonable amount left in the other. Will check properly tomorrow.

[MtB]

1 hour ago, WotEver said:

Was it cold at the time?

 

More pertinently, was it a blue or a red cylinder?

 

[aracer]

42 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

More pertinently, was it a blue or a red cylinder?

 

I figured that was obvious from the thread title (though I suppose it could be green).

[X Alan W]

Have had no dealingswith Calor Cyl's of late but Europeon Cyl'ss empty weight is stamped on the base rim it varies cyl to cyl

[Jen-in-Wellies]

22 hours ago, alan_fincher said:

I may be making this up, but......

Is it possible it is there but is pounds and ounces?

I know that sounds distinctly odd, but I have a vague memory that they have never changed from imperial.

I can't check one of ours, because I'm not on the boat at the moment.

Could be talking bo$$ocks though!

Alan F is right! The empty cylinder weight is stamped on the aluminium collar plate in pounds and ounces. A neighbour had an empty cylinder out with 32 10 on the collar in two of the four quadrants. This is 32.625lb (32 + (10/16)), which is 14.8Kg (conversion factor 0.45359237). A set of lift up luggage scales showed just shy of 15Kg.

Note this has been tested on Calor 13kg red propane cylinders only. Other makes, gases and sizes may differ.

 

Jen

[Phil Ambrose]

The answer is simple, have a auto changeover valve. A weekly check is sufficient to keep on top of usage and gives plenty of time to get a replacement. 

Phil

[aracer]

My cylinder ran out again. On my hanging scale it then weighed 14.41kg, which is 31.77lbs - it's marked 31-12 so it seems my scales agree with Calor's.

 

I also weighed it in-situ first, at which point it was 16.04kg including weight of pipes being pulled up - the other cylinder weighed 20.14kg and is marked 31-02, so by comparison that still contains 4.1+0.28=4.38kg of gas (approx - I wouldn't trust the accuracy of weighing in-situ, but definitely more than 4kg left).

 

My scale struggled with the new cylinder - it's a heavy one, marked 33-04. Scale read 28.05kg, but showed err first so I'm not sure if it had maxxed out (though that works out as an empty cylinder weight of 15.08kg so if that's accurate I've only been short changed by 30g of gas).

 

Thanks for all the info.

Edited November 23, 2018 by aracer