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Markinaboat

3LW oil change

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Hi,

 

Changing the oil on my 3LW for the first time and different to my previous 3L2 setup. 

 

I've got the main large filter but is the small filter on the filler (see pic below) just a breather filter as have never seen this setup before and don't think there's a spare onboard?

 

Many thanks

 

 

IMG_1521.JPG

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If its any help, I have the same setup on my 2L2 and Ive never changed it either, yes its a breather, and is not dirty enough to change in my case.

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Yes purely a breather filter which I personally change every 4 oil changes as they do not cost that much. I put a new one on when I got the engine as I was not sure how long the last had been on for.  Probably overkill but I want to look after the engine for the long term.

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1 hour ago, Markinaboat said:

Thanks guys. any idea how much comes out to ensure I have enough container capacity?

Have just seen in the manual that  capacity is 13.6 Litres. Even allowing for the fact that not all the old oil will come out,  I've only got 10 Litres. So will have to abort today. 

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On 09/09/2018 at 16:29, Markinaboat said:

Have just seen in the manual that  capacity is 13.6 Litres. Even allowing for the fact that not all the old oil will come out,  I've only got 10 Litres. So will have to abort today. 

It depends on what sump you have for the exact amount but I keeps 3 x 5 litre containers for that very same reason, plus of course another for the gearbox oil.

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Thanks all - have had confirmed that I'll need upto 15 litres, dependent on how much comes out. I've also been told that even though it has the paper oil filter element, I should still use SAE 30 and NOT a multigrade.

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I dont see the connection between a paper element filter and not using multigrade?..Is this something I should be aware of.?.........Strange that operators who run engines for a couple of hours worry about all this,when pro s dont...We were running GMs on Valvoline Allfleet 15/40 ,with heads off at 10,000hrs,and pistons/ liners and valves at 20,000hrs,which was 1 yr and 2yr intervals...........despite all the dire warnings in manuals,the only measurable effect of the multigrade was a considerable saving in battery costs...............I might add I have a 4LW in a yard crane that hasnt had the oil changed in 20-30 years,and it still runs quietly,and starts straight away..The crane will rust away,before the Gardner quits.

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On 15/09/2018 at 03:25, john.k said:

I dont see the connection between a paper element filter and not using multigrade?..Is this something I should be aware of.?.........Strange that operators who run engines for a couple of hours worry about all this,when pro s dont...We were running GMs on Valvoline Allfleet 15/40 ,with heads off at 10,000hrs,and pistons/ liners and valves at 20,000hrs,which was 1 yr and 2yr intervals...........despite all the dire warnings in manuals,the only measurable effect of the multigrade was a considerable saving in battery costs...............I might add I have a 4LW in a yard crane that hasnt had the oil changed in 20-30 years,and it still runs quietly,and starts straight away..The crane will rust away,before the Gardner quits.

Hi John - I only saw this somewhere on the forums when I was searching for the capacities info. I've since spoken with my Gardner man (Charles) who said SAE30, nothing else with paper element or not. His knowledge is such that, that's good enough for me so nowt to worry about.

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I agree Gardners are massively over engineered compared to current engines but they were designed in the 30s after all and a simple SAE30 is what they expected to operate with.  They will keep rolling even with much abuse unlike a more modern engine.  A multigrade keeps all of the crud in suspension a simple SAE drops it in the sump and paper filter.

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2 hours ago, PeterG said:

I agree Gardners are massively over engineered compared to current engines but they were designed in the 30s after all and a simple SAE30 is what they expected to operate with.  They will keep rolling even with much abuse unlike a more modern engine.  A multigrade keeps all of the crud in suspension a simple SAE drops it in the sump and paper filter.

Interesting - the info blurb which comes with Morris's 20W-50 Multi- grade states 'it is a low dispersant oil and allows any solid contaminants to drop harmlessly into the sump. This is an important feature where early methods of of oil filtration such as mesh gauzes or strainers are fitted.'

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Im only a newbie here,so I wont say all this is twaddle............have you ever seen or worked on diesels run on ordinary oil.....not that its possible to buy it any more.........When I was an apprentice,the head mechanic was "Old Tommy".......he was dark and swarthy and had jet black hair,and jet black fingernails.........when he retired ,the boss called him back to find some lost items .......I didnt recognize him........the voice yes......but here was a guy with whitish grey hair,and pale face and hands...........it was Tommy ,with the black washed/worn off.

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On 14/09/2018 at 19:09, Markinaboat said:

Thanks all - have had confirmed that I'll need upto 15 litres, dependent on how much comes out. I've also been told that even though it has the paper oil filter element, I should still use SAE 30 and NOT a multigrade.

I've just done a service on my 120hp 6LW and I got about 20.litres out. Replaced with SAE 30 oil. The PRM hydraulic gearbox however got 15-40 oil. In the past i have used multigrade oil and noticed that the oil pressure stays pretty constant whatever the engine RPM, however when I use SAE 30 the oil pressure gauge fluctuates more with differing engine speeds.

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3 hours ago, Joe Bourke said:

I've just done a service on my 120hp 6LW and I got about 20.litres out. Replaced with SAE 30 oil. The PRM hydraulic gearbox however got 15-40 oil. In the past i have used multigrade oil and noticed that the oil pressure stays pretty constant whatever the engine RPM, however when I use SAE 30 the oil pressure gauge fluctuates more with differing engine speeds.

Just completed a 9/10 day trip with SAE30 in and pressure was a constant 42 at any engine revs other than from cold at around 45. But only a 3 pot of course.

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On 17/09/2018 at 20:36, LEO said:

Interesting - the info blurb which comes with Morris's 20W-50 Multi- grade states 'it is a low dispersant oil and allows any solid contaminants to drop harmlessly into the sump. This is an important feature where early methods of of oil filtration such as mesh gauzes or strainers are fitted.'

I was talking about a normal multigrade used today rather than the Morris classic golden film oil which is a low dispersant dropping the crud into the sump.  That just shows there are all sorts of oil available which is great but you need to understand what you are buying, it is not just some oil.

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Diesel engines need a high detergency Series 3 oil to stop buildup of black crud sticking piston rings in their grooves,and turning the inside of the motor into a black mess,...Which is what used to happen 50 years ago.....The important bit is the CC or CD minimum rating....

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I've been using Morris Golden Film 30sae in my 3LW the last couple of seasons on the advice of wiser heads here. This summer's ambient temperatures of 35-37 (Canal du Midi) worried me though, as spec says max operating temperature is 30. Oil pressure would drop to below 20psi, so we only moved in the earlier parts of the day. Should I be using another oil when faced with these conditions? Grateful for members' views.

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You are on the cusp of the grade change between temperate and tropical zones. If you are between the temps you quote most of the time you could consider changing to a SAE 40 oil. Finding some could prove a challenge although I suspect Morris Oils could help you.  If your oil pressure drops as you describe when the temp is lower you need to consider the oil relief valve setting and the general wear and tear of your engines bottom end. Gardners running in tropical temps do not normally object unless they are well worn.

Edited by steamraiser2

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On 18/09/2018 at 09:48, Joe Bourke said:

I've just done a service on my 120hp 6LW and I got about 20.litres out. Replaced with SAE 30 oil. The PRM hydraulic gearbox however got 15-40 oil. In the past i have used multigrade oil and noticed that the oil pressure stays pretty constant whatever the engine RPM, however when I use SAE 30 the oil pressure gauge fluctuates more with differing engine speeds.

So is that good or bad, ty?

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I would be concerned if the oil pressure with SAE30 was too low at idle but as it is in the high 30s I'm not. It goes up into the 40s with increased rpm so no worries on my part. With multigrade oil the pressure is pretty constant at any revs. When doing oil changes in the future I may alternate between 30 grade and multigrade. Sort of using 30 grade as a flushing oil. What do you think? 

 

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9 hours ago, Joe Bourke said:

I would be concerned if the oil pressure with SAE30 was too low at idle but as it is in the high 30s I'm not. It goes up into the 40s with increased rpm so no worries on my part. With multigrade oil the pressure is pretty constant at any revs. When doing oil changes in the future I may alternate between 30 grade and multigrade. Sort of using 30 grade as a flushing oil. What do you think? 

 

If I were you I would stick to the SAE30 as Gardner recommended. The key is using an oil of the correct detergency and viscosity. In my experience what you are noticing with the multigrade is the oil behaving how a multigrade should. It behaves like a thin oil when cold and a thicker one when warmed up. I have always found that engines run on the correct grade and viscosity changed at regular intervals always do better in the end. Gardners are pretty basic machines by modern standards. Good oil and good fuel and they will usually run on for years and years. Flushing them can just as easily be done with either the straight or multigrade oil it will make little difference so,either or. Back in the day we used to flush the truck Gardner engines with SAE10 oil bought in for the purpose. It had an additive in it, no idea exactly what it was. An hour idling in the yard was the procedure, You could not load the engine up at all. I suspect it was nothing more than oil cut with diesel or kerosene maybe.

It certainly washed them out well. Used to catch the drainings through a fine filter looking for whitemetal etc. With the advent of full flow oil filters we stopped doing it as the modern high detergency oil we used in the Ford and Perkins engined stuff kept them spotless anyway. So the Gardners just got an oil change on a Saturday morning prior to the driver giving the truck a wash. All the fleet got this at least once a month. It worked as many of the Fodens were 750000 miles plus without any major repair work.

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I use Valvoline Allfleet.............why?..because I have 200 gallons of the stuff from work.....They never returned oil from site,even if the drums were still sealed....So everything from lawnmower to truck and crane uses it..........However modern cars with particle filters need special oil,or the expensive filter will clinker ,just like an old boiler.

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When you change the filter element,dont forget to first drain the chamber by removing the square head plug,before you remove the top nut......other wise dirty oil will run back into the circuit as soon as you lift the element.................years ago,I made a spin on adaptor to sit on top of the chamber........no permanent alterations,and used a 3/4"x 16tpi thread which fits the common Perkins,Toyota,and Ford spin ons....I havent done this on the 4lw in the crane,mainly cause I haven changed the oil in a generation......I have a new in crate 6lw,which I hoped to use in a boat,but time is running out,and Ive been told to keep out of the sun,which cant be done in a boat....Grandson says he ll build a boat for it,but first he has to navigate school..........

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On 20/11/2018 at 02:36, john.k said:

When you change the filter element,dont forget to first drain the chamber by removing the square head plug,before you remove the top nut......other wise dirty oil will run back into the circuit as soon as you lift the element.

Excellent tip.?

Maybe we should compile a list of these gems of wisdom, on this forum. The things that you don’t read in the manuals.

any more ideas anyone?

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