Sound Signals from Birmingham Trip Boats

[john6767]

Just a bit of fun.

 

Moored in the centre of Birmingham on the Main Line and there is a constant stream of trip boats going past.  As is customary they sound their horn approaching Old Turn as you have a blind entry fron Oozells Street Loop, which some of the trip boats use.  Normally they use one long blast, which seems sensible and appropriate even if there is a boater coming out that has not idea what sound  signals mean, one long blast as “I am here” works.

 

However today there is at least on trip boat that is giving one long and two short blasts.  I looked up what that means, “I am not able to manoeuvre (not under command)”.   Do you think I should ask if everything is ok next time he comes past ?

[nicknorman]

One of the trip boats got a bit “stuck” winding at the roundabout this morning. I think the chap was under tuition as there was someone else on the back supervising. We all have to learn some time and perhaps, for his ticket, he has to know and use the “proper” signals even though not many other people on the inland waterways knows what they mean!

[john6767]

21 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

One of the trip boats got a bit “stuck” winding at the roundabout this morning. I think the chap was under tuition as there was someone else on the back supervising. We all have to learn some time and perhaps, for his ticket, he has to know and use the “proper” signals even though not many other people on the inland waterways knows what they mean!

I suspect it is the same one, there was someone standing on the gunwale at the rear, so prob someone supervising him.  Knowing the proper signals is fine, but I don’t think one long and two short is appropriate, at least I hope not.  Now in your case if it did go pear shaped on him perhaps that would have been ok, but just coming strIght through the junction on the Main Line, or out of Oozells then one long seems fine, lI am approaching a blind bend” or “I am entering the fairway”.

 

Anyway as I said just a bit of fun, that he was communicating he was not able to manoeuver.

[Iain_S]

Unless there was a really long pause between the long and the two shorts, to split them into two signals "I am here" and "I am turning left".

[Wanderer Vagabond]

2 hours ago, Iain_S said:

Unless there was a really long pause between the long and the two shorts, to split them into two signals "I am here" and "I am turning left to port!!".

 

[nicknorman]

5 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

 

No that would be ambiguous. Coming out of Adderley Jn having descended the 21, would you be going left to Stourport or right to Ellesmere Port?

[john6767]

13 hours ago, Iain_S said:

Unless there was a really long pause between the long and the two shorts, to split them into two signals "I am here" and "I am turning left".

That is a good point, there was not a long pause, but if there was it would have been correct 50% of the time!  Will see what he does when they start up this morning.

[Graham Davis]

What is the point on insisting that the trip boats use the ColRegs signals when probably 90% of the boaters in Brum won't have a clue what they mean? That certainly apples to the hire boaters!

[Robbo]

25 minutes ago, Graham Davis said:

What is the point on insisting that the trip boats use the ColRegs signals when probably 90% of the boaters in Brum won't have a clue what they mean? That certainly apples to the hire boaters!

Because they are meant to be professionals.   Insurance/legal issues - did you give the right sound signal?

Edited May 29, 2018 by Robbo

[john6767]

52 minutes ago, Graham Davis said:

What is the point on insisting that the trip boats use the ColRegs signals when probably 90% of the boaters in Brum won't have a clue what they mean? That certainly apples to the hire boaters!

That is very true.

 

27 minutes ago, Robbo said:

Because they are meant to be professionals.   Insurance/legal issues - did you give the right sound signal?

This is also very true.

 

They can I think satisfy both aspects by one long blast.

[Iain_S]

21 hours ago, nicknorman said:

No that would be ambiguous. Coming out of Adderley Jn having descended the 21, would you be going left to Stourport or right to Ellesmere Port?

Stourport.

The complete "double signal" contains both long and short blasts, so any boat on the mainline should be able to distinguish between the long and short. Similarly, between the long pause and the short pause. Having heard both long and short, they should know that the long one isn't a short one for turning right.

If you're going to Ellesmere Port, it would be long blast, l .o.n.g pause followed by one short blast at Adderley, and two short when you get to Autherley. No need for the long one, as you're not joining the channel, the two short give warning of presence, and any boat in the vicinity should be able to work out where you are and where you're going, even if they're in the stop lock at Autherley.

 

Doesn't the butler do that as a matter of course?    

[john6767]

So today there was a bit more clarity.  As Nick pointed out it looked like the steerer was under training, but that was not the case today so presumably someone different steering.  Today there was certainly a good pause between the long blast and the two short, so I think they are actually using colregs signals when coming from Brindley Place on the Main Line and turning left into Oozells St Loop (approaching a blind bend and then turning to port).

[Graham Davis]

11 hours ago, Robbo said:

Because they are meant to be professionals.   Insurance/legal issues - did you give the right sound signal?

No, because none of the hire companies or the boat yards where we kept ourr share boat ever explained them.
Do you?

[Robbo]

3 minutes ago, Graham Davis said:

No, because none of the hire companies or the boat yards where we kept ourr share boat ever explained them.
Do you?

Yes

[MHS]

I reckon they only use their horn to show off to the paying passengers.

 

I generally find it unnecessary to use sound signals. I prefer to slow and prepare to stop at a blind corner rather than disturb everyone. It’s the same leaving our marina. I see people hoot whilst approaching the entrance at a speed that means they would struggle to stop if someone hooted back. 

 

I do use 3 short blasts when approaching a bridge to tell an approaching boat that I’m stopping for them. I’m sure 90% have know idea the specific meaning. 

[MtB]

22 hours ago, Graham Davis said:

What is the point on insisting that the trip boats use the ColRegs signals when probably 90% of the boaters in Brum won't have a clue what they mean? That certainly apples to the hire boaters!

 

The point is surely twofold.

 

1) If 90% don't know what they mean then there are 10% of boaters in Brum DO know what they mean, and might benefit from them.

 

2) In the event of a collision and an insurance claim, the insurance company are bound to ask the question 'what sound signals were given?' and may use an answer of none as a reason not to pay out. 

[RLWP]

Just now, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

2) In the event of a collision and an insurance claim, the insurance company are bound to ask the question 'what sound signals were given?' and may use an answer of none as a reason not to pay out. 

We know how that one plays out, Keeping Up was struck by a hire boat in similar circumstances. From memory, Alan didn't get anything from the hirers insurance because he hadn't positioned a forward lookout in accordance with Colregs

 

Blow your horn as much as you want, those trip boats don't have a forward lookout either

 

Richard

[Ssscrudddy]

It seems to me most peeps don't know them.

I was approaching a bend with a bridge & a house, easy enough bend but can't see anything. I knew there was nothing in front of me travelling in the same direction. So I gave one long blast (a long blast being 5 seconds), I heard 3 short blasts back, so I did 1 long blast again & continued slowly. As my bow got into the bridge hole this other boat came hammering in from the opposite direction, hit me hit the bridge hit me again hit the bridge again hit me again hit the bridge again (bouncing off us & the bridge) & he made no attempt to slow down. He was fuming & reckoned it was all my fault.

There's another 1 bend bridge & house, it needs 1 long blast. Every time I've been through I've been yelled at by the angry guy that lives there, even though all the cars also sound their horns.

Another time approaching a bridge hole on a straight enough bit with a good view through, a guy pulled away from the bank, I was loads closer to the bridge hole. He gave 4 short blasts then a gap then 2 more, so I stopped half way in the bridge hole (slightly miffed that he had seen me coming & decided to pull out & then turn around even though I was underway & he wasn't). But then he just sat there slowed right down & made no attempt to turn. Eventually he gave the same signal again so I put my arms & hands in the air. He didn't like this & started yelling all sorts of abuse. I yelled back told him to effing turn around then & stop holding me up. This made him flip, he jumped off his boat leaving it at the mercy of the canal & ran down to me jumped on mine & a scuffle ensued. I pointed out to him that he had signalled he was turning around & that's why I had stopped but he wasn't really listening, he did end up in the cut though behind my boat & off I went & gave his boat a hefty whack as I passed it.

I've only ever met 1 boat that knew his signals, he gave 3 short blasts approaching a narrow bit (opposite directions) so I continued & thanked him for letting me through, he commented it was nice to meet someone who knew the signal.

I met another guy who wasn't impressed with me beeping my horn like a dick, I was turning around in very windy conditions so it might not have been obvious to him once he came into view, hence the 4 short blasts followed by a gap then 1 or 2 more whichever way I was turning. He also didn't accept that i had given the correct signal which he was supposed to know but clearly didn't.

Edited May 30, 2018 by Ssscrudddy

[PaulJ]

Blimey Ssscrudy-think Im probably in your marina to pick up a licence next week- I wont be using the horn...?

[Machpoint005]

On 29/05/2018 at 09:51, Robbo said:

 Insurance/legal issues - did you give the right sound signal?

Apparently they gave the left sound signal!

[Ssscrudddy]

2 hours ago, PaulJ said:

Blimey Ssscrudy-think Im probably in your marina to pick up a licence next week- I wont be using the horn...?

I'm lovely, I wouldn't say boo to a goose (I might flap my arms at it if it starts hissing at me). But jump on my boat & physically attack me is likely to get a different response.
I sometimes sound my horn in the marina for no good reason than other people are doing it also for no good reason (the others having an 'arooga' style horn is a perfectly good reason imho)

[john6767]

9 hours ago, RLWP said:

We know how that one plays out, Keeping Up was struck by a hire boat in similar circumstances. From memory, Alan didn't get anything from the hirers insurance because he hadn't positioned a forward lookout in accordance with Colregs

 

Blow your horn as much as you want, those trip boats don't have a forward lookout either

 

Richard

If I remember rightly Keeping Up’s incident was at Factory Junction.  Despite there being a sign telling you to sound your horn, I admit I did not at the weekend, but I was going very slowly because of the clue just by the bridge.  No forward lookout either.