Generator & Washing Machine

[Gregg Farlam]

I am looking to purchase a Hyundai 3400W Electric and Remote Start LPG Inverter Generator HY3600SEi-LPG for my boat, it will need to power a washing machine. 

Looking for suitable 7 - 8 kg load machine. Any suggestions, the lower peak power usage the better.

Thanks   Gregg

[mrsmelly]

Hi

A gennie that size will power any domestic washing machine I can think of with absolute ease.

[MtB]

1 minute ago, mrsmelly said:

Hi

A gennie that size will power any domestic washing machine I can think of with absolute ease.

 

That's a very brave claim.

[mrsmelly]

1 minute ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

That's a very brave claim.

Surely correct though? Most including mine never goes over around 2000 watty things. I notice it is a Hyundai but they cant be THAT bad can they?

[MtB]

Just now, mrsmelly said:

Surely correct though?

 

Not so sure now eh?!!

[mrsmelly]

Just now, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Not so sure now eh?!!

 Go bong ya bells 

[MtB]

Thing is, what power is the spin motor and what is the stall current? 

[mrsmelly]

Just now, Mike the Boilerman said:

Thing is, what power is the spin motor and what is the stall current? 

Itl be raight innitt.

[MtB]

Just now, mrsmelly said:

Itl be raight innitt.

 

Yes it probably will, but no guarantees. That wuz my point....

[blackrose]

9 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

Hi

A gennie that size will power any domestic washing machine I can think of with absolute ease.

In terms of power output you're probably correct, but whether the washing machine will like the sine wave form of the generator is a different story. I run my 1.6kW machine from my Honda EU30i which they claim has a purer wave form than the mains. Trouble is it's a different wave form and often the machine takes 20 mins or more to decide it will accept power from the generator. And that's a Honda. Try it with a cheaper generator and I imagine you're only reducing your chances of it working. 

Edited May 19, 2018 by blackrose

[Flyboy]

1 hour ago, blackrose said:

In terms of power output you're probably correct, but whether the washing machine will like the sine wave form of the generator is a different story. I run my 1.6kW machine from my Honda EU30i which they claim has a purer wave form than the mains. Trouble is it's a different wave form and often the machine takes 20 mins or more to decide it will accept power from the generator. And that's a Honda. Try it with a cheaper generator and I imagine you're only reducing your chances of it working. 

I'm struggling a bit with this statement. Mains waveform is pure sine, you then say the Honda is purer but it has a different wave form. If the Honda isn't producing a pure sine wave output it will never be as good as the mains.  How Honda can claim they produce a purer wave that has a different form is beyond me. Marketing hype imo.

[WotEver]

50 minutes ago, Flyboy said:

I'm struggling a bit with this statement. Mains waveform is pure sine, you then say the Honda is purer but it has a different wave form. If the Honda isn't producing a pure sine wave output it will never be as good as the mains.  How Honda can claim they produce a purer wave that has a different form is beyond me. Marketing hype imo.

Some pretty pictures. It’s not bad at all...

http://www.jkovach.net/projects/powerquality/

[Flyboy]

40 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Some pretty pictures. It’s not bad at all...

http://www.jkovach.net/projects/powerquality/

Yes agreed, Honda generators are probably the best of the bunch. Blackrose said the Honda had a different wave form which is the bit I don't understand. 

[MtB]

41 minutes ago, Flyboy said:

Yes agreed, Honda generators are probably the best of the bunch. Blackrose said the Honda had a different wave form which is the bit I don't understand. 

 

It’s rubbish. A perfect sine wave is produced by an electrical machine doing the generating, so an electronically constructed artificial sine wave can at best only perfectly match the real thing, and is likely to be slightly (or a lot) different. 

 

Honda probably mean their inverter sine wave gennies are more accurate than other makes of inverter genny sine wave. 

[pearley]

2 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

It’s rubbish. A perfect sine wave is produced by an electrical machine doing the generating, so an electronically constructed artificial sine wave can at best only perfectly match the real thing, and is likely to be slightly (or a lot) different. 

 

Honda probably mean their inverter sine wave gennies are more accurate than other makes of inverter genny sine wave. 

So possibly the inverter that the washer doesn't like. Rather like my Zanussi which will work fine from my generator but not from the inverter. Both pure sine wave. 

[WotEver]

22 minutes ago, pearley said:

So possibly the inverter that the washer doesn't like. Rather like my Zanussi which will work fine from my generator but not from the inverter. Both pure sine wave. 

The problem is always how pure a sine wave a ‘pure’ sine wave generator or inverter creates. If it were to be truly pure and at a fixed frequency then there would be no hit and miss with appliances. Some flatten the peaks of the wave, some have a little crossover distortion, some have a bit too much noise. Honda are among the best but we still 

occasionally read of folk having a problem with them driving washing machine xyz

[MtB]

And when I said ‘electrical machine’, I meant in the pure electrical theory sense. The turbine generator at the power station for example. 

 

And little portable gennies generate DC and convert it to AC with an inverter. The resulting wave form approximates to ‘pure sine wave’ but isn’t. As wotever explained. 

[Boater Sam]

And little portable gennies generate DC and convert it to AC with an inverter. The resulting wave form approximates to ‘pure sine wave’ but isn’t. As wotever explained. 

 

 

Really? A brushless alternator generates DC? I don't think so.

[Paringa]

So, as has been discussed, the trouble you may or may not have is not necessarily with the power requirement of the washing machine but it's electronics liking the waveform from the generator. The only way to test a washing machine on the output of your gennie is to come alongside a friends boat and power their machine through a cycle. You can then see what makes work with your set-up.

 

This is my experience on a Vetus (pah) generator, yours may well be different:

 

Zanussi Compact - Can be fussy, mine just twitched, that was an expensive lesson*

Candy Compact - Worked well but was too small

AEG - My present machine. Great but I need to put a additional electrical load on for it to kick into life....sometimes.

 

Miele are very well thought of but I can never square the cost.

 

* Expensive lesson in that manufacturers will not necessarily take back a machine that has been used... Of course how you check it works without running a wash I don't know. And then what excuse do you come up with when it works perfectly off shore-power but not off your generator on a boat?

 

There are other solutions  get arounds to this common problem - like giving a feed of hot water to not use the heating element - or indeed going low tech and avoiding any of this nonsense...

 

Good luck.

 

 

[dmr]

5 hours ago, WotEver said:

Some pretty pictures. It’s not bad at all...

http://www.jkovach.net/projects/powerquality/

Thats a nice try but I do suspect that some of the "noise" on the waveforms is actually the digitisation of the blokes 'scope. The FFT is a good tool for looking at the purity of a sinwave, remember Harmonic distortion at all that stuff that the HiFi mags used to measure before they went daft.

 

...............Dave

[dmr]

54 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

And when I said ‘electrical machine’, I meant in the pure electrical theory sense. The turbine generator at the power station for example. 

 

And little portable gennies generate DC and convert it to AC with an inverter. The resulting wave form approximates to ‘pure sine wave’ but isn’t. As wotever explained. 

 

A proper power station generator will produce a good sinewave but those who live on the land share their 'leccy supply with a lot of others and some of these will do bad stuff, like using thyristor controllers (and battery chargers) that make a right old mess of the waveform. Where I used to work I would sometimes do more difficult measurements later in the day as the mains always improved at about three o'clock, guess somebody somewhere turned something bad off and knocked off early.

 

An inverter generator will produce a stepped approximation to a sinewave but its probably very good with those steps very small and at a high frequency, so if you have your own genny producing your own personal sinewave then it might well be better than what some land based people get some of the time.

 

I think I have some spectra of the TravelPower waveform somewhere, might have a look later.

 

..............Dave

[mrsmelly]

44 minutes ago, dmr said:

 

A proper power station generator will produce a good sinewave but those who live on the land share their 'leccy supply with a lot of others and some of these will do bad stuff, like using thyristor controllers (and battery chargers) that make a right old mess of the waveform. Where I used to work I would sometimes do more difficult measurements later in the day as the mains always improved at about three o'clock, guess somebody somewhere turned something bad off and knocked off early.

 

An inverter generator will produce a stepped approximation to a sinewave but its probably very good with those steps very small and at a high frequency, so if you have your own genny producing your own personal sinewave then it might well be better than what some land based people get some of the time.

 

I think I have some spectra of the TravelPower waveform somewhere, might have a look later.

 

..............Dave

I am on my second boat with Travel Power, for us its a must have. Both boats have run  absolutely everything without fault and that includes 3 different washing machines and 3 different tumble dryers plus anything else we have needed. If I bought a boat without one I would check before purchase if its possible to easily fit one. Stuff like beta 43 and isuzu 42 are a doddle and all brackets available.

[cuthound]

1 hour ago, dmr said:

 

A proper power station generator will produce a good sinewave but those who live on the land share their 'leccy supply with a lot of others and some of these will do bad stuff, like using thyristor controllers (and battery chargers) that make a right old mess of the waveform. Where I used to work I would sometimes do more difficult measurements later in the day as the mains always improved at about three o'clock, guess somebody somewhere turned something bad off and knocked off early.

 

An inverter generator will produce a stepped approximation to a sinewave but its probably very good with those steps very small and at a high frequency, so if you have your own genny producing your own personal sinewave then it might well be better than what some land based people get some of the time.

 

I think I have some spectra of the TravelPower waveform somewhere, might have a look later.

 

..............Dave

 

Unless it has been rescinded since I stopped working 5 years ago, Engineering Recommendation G5/4-1 limited mains distortion to a maximum of 5% at the customers point of connection to the grid.

 

All industrial sites containing large switched mode power supplies were checked periodically for compliance.

Edited May 19, 2018 by cuthound
To unmangle the effects of autocorrect

[dmr]

25 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

Unless it has been rescinded since I stopped working 5 years ago, Engineering Recommendation G5/4-1 limited mains distortion to a maximum of 5% at the customers point of connection to the grid.

 

All industrial sites containing large switched mode power supplies were checked periodically for compliance.

I think we did complain and got a visit, and it was concluded that we were at the end of a long and  old supply chain or whatever and that things were not good and might get sorted out one day. I think there is a difference between setting specifications (aspirations) and actually delivering them, especially where large amounts of money need to be spent.

 

................Dave

[cuthound]

5 minutes ago, dmr said:

I think we did complain and got a visit, and it was concluded that we were at the end of a long and  old supply chain or whatever and that things were not good and might get sorted out one day. I think there is a difference between setting specifications (aspirations) and actually delivering them, especially where large amounts of money need to be spent.

 

................Dave

 

Well I have been involved numerous multi-million pound projects and we always had to demonstrate compliance to the local DNO's representative.

 

I think the DNO inspects existing installations only when complaints have been made.