Due Diligence

[Alan de Enfield]

10 minutes ago, Dave_P said:

Actually there's the Sale of Goods Act.

No, there isn't any such thing.

[Dave_P]

9 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

No, there isn't any such thing.

Actually there very much is such a thing.  It came into law in 1979.  Although we now also have a thing called the consumer rights act, the sale of goods act is still the relevant legislation for goods purchased before 2015.  (Never try to out-pedant a pedant )

Edited May 15, 2018 by Dave_P

[Alan de Enfield]

6 minutes ago, Dave_P said:

Actually there very much is such a thing.  It came into law in 1979.  Although we now also have a thing called the consumer rights act, the sale of goods act is still the relevant legislation for goods purchased before 2015.  (Never try to out-pedant a pedant )

The Consumer Rights Act 2015

The Consumer Rights Act 2015 became law on 1 October 2015, replacing three major pieces of consumer legislation - the Sale of Goods Act, Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations, and the Supply of Goods and Services Act. It was introduced to simplify, strengthen and modernise the law, giving you clearer shopping rights.

Have you recently tried returning a second hand item purchased prior to 1/10/2015 and claiming protection under the sale of Goods Act ?

The quotes earlier in the thread regarding the liability of private sellers to purchasers of 2nd hand goods are taken from the CRA 2015. - basically there are no 'rights'.

 

This was an answer to a question (July 2009 - so came under the Sale of Goods act) to 'Money Wise' and 'Which'

However, if you’re buying from an individual – which constitutes a private sale – the rules are slightly different. For example, the so-called ‘implied terms’ of the Sales of Goods Act only apply to title and description, not to quality. This means the goods must simply correspond with the description, and be legally owned by the seller.

“That means a dress can’t be a size 12 if it was described as a size 18,” says Stephen McGlade, a solicitor at consumer group Which?.

However, if an item is advertised as “a three-year-old bike”, for example, it doesn’t mean it has to work, just that it has to be three years old. In this case, especially when the item has been well-used, the transaction remains a case of caveat emptor, or ‘buyer beware’. “This, put simply, is why you pay a lower price for second-hand goods,” says McGlade.

 

 

[Dave_P]

5 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The Consumer Rights Act 2015

The Consumer Rights Act 2015 became law on 1 October 2015, replacing three major pieces of consumer legislation - the Sale of Goods Act, Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations, and the Supply of Goods and Services Act. It was introduced to simplify, strengthen and modernise the law, giving you clearer shopping rights.

Have you recently tried returning a second hand item purchased prior to 1/10/2015 and claiming protection under the sale of Goods Act ?

The quotes earlier in the thread regarding the liability of private sellers to purchasers of 2nd hand goods are taken from the CRA 2015. - basically there are no 'rights'.

 

This was an answer to a question (July 2009 - so came under the Sale of Goods act) to 'Money Wise' and 'Which'

However, if you’re buying from an individual – which constitutes a private sale – the rules are slightly different. For example, the so-called ‘implied terms’ of the Sales of Goods Act only apply to title and description, not to quality. This means the goods must simply correspond with the description, and be legally owned by the seller.

“That means a dress can’t be a size 12 if it was described as a size 18,” says Stephen McGlade, a solicitor at consumer group Which?.

However, if an item is advertised as “a three-year-old bike”, for example, it doesn’t mean it has to work, just that it has to be three years old. In this case, especially when the item has been well-used, the transaction remains a case of caveat emptor, or ‘buyer beware’. “This, put simply, is why you pay a lower price for second-hand goods,” says McGlade.

 

 

https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/sale-of-goods-act

 

You said "there is no such thing".  Again - there is such a thing (in fact all old acts of law are still a "thing").  In this case, there remains a route to legal redress through the Sale Of Goods act.  Whether I have personally used this route since 2015 is irrelevant.

 

You tried to make a smart-alec comment and got it wrong.

[Horace42]

Good for you. Whilst I am not defending the broker, the boat did have mooring lines - albeit it turned out not strong enough for the intended use at the time. Just how thick should ropes be ?

 

We once had a half-inch rope snap on us going up a lock in the Heartbreak Hill flight.

 

Most boaters know the boat moves to the back of the lock as the top paddles open, and moves forward slowly to the top gate until the lock fills. But can be held by hand, or on the engine.

 

But for the unsuspecting on some locks, with the top paddles fully open, the boat can be picked up as the lock fills, and suddenly and rapidly thrown forward into the top gate, and if not secured to the bollards, with great force. Most Heartbreak Hill locks are like this.

 

Our boat, in the early days of hiring, was tied to the bollard, but had a lot of slack as the lock filled. Our boat moved forward with speed and had enough momentum to snap the rope as it jerked tight.

 

We have one-inch main cruising ropes on our own boat. 

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, Dave_P said:

You said "there is no such thing".  Again - there is such a thing (in fact all old acts of law are still a "thing"). 

You are correct - I worded it badly.

 

To try again :

The SoG Act has been replaced.

Even when the SoG act was in force it gave no protection to buyers of 2nd hand goods from private sellers.

[Horace42]

6 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

You are correct - I worded it badly.

 

To try again :

The SoG Act has been replaced.

Even when the SoG act was in force it gave no protection to buyers of 2nd hand goods from private sellers.

In some cases it gives no protection to buying from commercial sellers.

 

I bought a bargain lot of "Instant-glue supplied in handy 10 ml tubes" from a regular trade stall at a car-boot sale, but as I started to use the glue I found the tubes only held about 2 ml, if that.

 

I went back and complained about being short-changed, and their misleading adverts.

 

Only to be told their ads were 100% correct (which was true - they were definitely 10 ml tubes)  but there was nothing in their sales literature that said anything about the tubes being full of glue.

 

...that was an assumption on my part...!

 

....and in any case they said it was likely that most of the glue would be thrown away after going hard after first use once the tube was opened....and therefore buying their tubes with small amounts was more economical in the long run.

 

Anyway they gave me a free card of glue to keep me happy....but technically I doubt if I had a legal leg to stand on.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ditchcrawler]

7 hours ago, Nut said:

well done for helping them. thats good karma ,as you say the marina should have done a quick speccy

Why, the marina were selling it for a customer with the equipment it cam in with, unless the nicked the mooring ropes which I doubt.

[Athy]

19 minutes ago, Horace42 said:

 

 

 

 

....and in any case they said it was likely that most of the glue would be thrown away after going hard after first use once the tube was opened....and therefore buying their tubes with small amounts was more economical in the long run.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now THAT's salesmanship.

[tree monkey]

Daft thing about this is the marina is losing out on some added value sales such as

 

Simple starter pack offered to new boat buyer based on an survey by sales team, missing bits offerd at a resonable cost, ropes, goat chains, ropes etc

 

Boat polish

 

Boat valet

 

Half/full day training offered.

 

All with a freebie bottle of vino and branded corkscrew.

 

And customer goodwill as a bonus

[Athy]

10 minutes ago, tree monkey said:

Daft thing about this is the marina is losing out on some added value sales such as

 

Simple starter pack offered to new boat buyer based on an survey by sales team, missing bits offerd at a resonable cost, ropes, goat chains, ropes etc

 

Boat polish

 

Boat valet

 

Half/full day training offered.

 

All with a freebie bottle of vino and branded corkscrew.

 

And customer goodwill as a bonus

That's an extremely good idea - do any brokers offer such a service?

 

 

(You get the valet only when purchasing a Hudson, of course).

[Guest]

One thing I remember about buying the Dog House through Rugby boats when Dominic owned it was the day we collected the boat it was noticed the stern and bow lines were a bit crap to see the least. Quite frayed and very tatty.

 

They were both swapped with some spare used but none the less better lines for which he didn't charge us.

 

Being inexperienced I probably would never have noticed until one perhaps snapped.

[mrsmelly]

8 hours ago, Murflynn said:

it might be more relevant to suggest that anyone in charge of a vessel (and the registered owner - before he/she is issued a licence) above a certain size should have a basic qualification in helmsmanship and general boat management if they cannot show reasonable previous experience.  That is what happens in France, why not here?  I'm surprised the insurance companies don't insist on it.

France is in europe..................we in the UK, a small fabulous group of islands off the coast of europe are not. We want non of the  european nonsense here thanks very much ?

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

France is in europe..................we in the UK, a small fabulous group of islands off the coast of europe are not. We want non of the  european nonsense here thanks very much ?

Edit, not going down that route!,

Edited May 15, 2018 by MJG

[ditchcrawler]

2 hours ago, tree monkey said:

 

 

And customer goodwill as a bonus

Do they need good will? 

[tree monkey]

9 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Do they need good will? 

I dunno, but it is generally a good thing

[MtB]

Just now, tree monkey said:

I dunno, but it is generally a good thing

 

 Most peeps only buy a boat once in a blue moon, so less important for a broker than say a hairdresser.

[tree monkey]

1 minute ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

 Most peeps only buy a boat once in a blue moon, so less important for a broker than say a hairdresser.

I understand that, but places like Rugby boats was regularly recommend on here because of customer satisfaction. 

It's an odd thing but if I was selling boats I would do what I could to make sure,

1, customer was happy

2, I was able to supply all the extras a boat needed to boat safely and of course make a little extra at the till.

 

Thinking back to when I bought mine I had no idea, now me being me I thought it was fun but a small how to pack telling me exactly what mooring stakes were would have been much appreciated.

Simple things, small gestures sometimes make a big difference to how businesses are perceived and recommended later

[Nut]

3 hours ago, tree monkey said:

Daft thing about this is the marina is losing out on some added value sales such as

 

Simple starter pack offered to new boat buyer based on an survey by sales team, missing bits offerd at a resonable cost, ropes, goat chains, ropes etc

 

Boat polish

 

Boat valet

 

Half/full day training offered.

 

All with a freebie bottle of vino and branded corkscrew.

 

And customer goodwill as a bonus

as a retail worker (not for long ) this is indeed what I thougt myself however some things need spelling out to some , great post

[roland elsdon]

Broker someone who negotiates a sale between a private owner and a buyer ( not customer)

retailer someone who provides a good and or service

private seller - individual who sells at maximum profit possibly invovlving deceit

 

i  don't think that the marina in question have any  responsibility re fitness. I'm sure their mantra is ' get a survey' but buyers often know better or want to save £££

[Wanderer Vagabond]

3 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

 Most peeps only buy a boat once in a blue moon, so less important for a broker than say a hairdresser.

I would have said that it is more important than for a hairdresser to be honest. Given that a quality broker's fee (Rugby Boats, ABNB) is something of the order of £1500 minimum, how many haircuts would you get for that? If good service is given the buyer/seller is likely to recommend the business to others, generating more business, when was the last time you recommended a hairdresser/barber to anyone?

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

When was the last time you recommended a hairdresser/barber to anyone?

Well as you ask, often.

 

But it's a long way for you to come to Jays at Guisborough.

 

[MtB]

11 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

I would have said that it is more important than for a hairdresser to be honest. Given that a quality broker's fee (Rugby Boats, ABNB) is something of the order of £1500 minimum, how many haircuts would you get for that? If good service is given the buyer/seller is likely to recommend the business to others, generating more business, when was the last time you recommended a hairdresser/barber to anyone?

 

Given the broker's customer is the seller not the buyer, why would the broker give a toss how 'satisfied' the boat buyer is?

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Given the broker's customer is the seller not the buyer, why would the broker give a toss how 'satisfied' the boat buyer is?

 

We choose our selling broker based on our experience as a buyer.

 

As do a number of RBS customers I understand.

[ditchcrawler]

37 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

I would have said that it is more important than for a hairdresser to be honest. Given that a quality broker's fee (Rugby Boats, ABNB) is something of the order of £1500 minimum, how many haircuts would you get for that? If good service is given the buyer/seller is likely to recommend the business to others, generating more business, when was the last time you recommended a hairdresser/barber to anyone?

And how often do you see on here when someone wants to look at Narrowboats " Go to Wilton they have loads and will let you look round by yourself"