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I returned to the Boat after doing a bit of shopping on Sunday , I purposefully always attempt to find a quiet spot to moor as I tend to keep irregular hours and if I have an early start and have to run the engine for a Shower then I dont like to disturb other Boaters . The usual happens of course and soon I am often joined by some other Boat and this is what happened on Sunday . Upon my return there was a 65ft Canal Services Craft about 25 yards behind and it wasn't long before I had a knock on the side of the Boat asking for directions to the nearest Train Station , I duly obliged and around ten minutes later bags were dragged along the Towpath by a young couple who couldn't have been more than 25 years of age , he shouted thanks and gave me a wave as he saw me in the doorway watching .

Since their departure I have had to visit their Boat four times as it keeps slipping its mooring and at one stage was level with my own at 11.30 in the evening , when it got to daylight I have been able to ascertain that it was purchased from Whilton Marina and came with String instead of Proper Ropes and there is only so many times that you can tie knots in fraying Clothes Rope , eventually I took some rope from my Engine Bay and cut it to length renewing both Stern and Bow . I am not criticising Whilton Marina , a Boat comes onto Brokerage and you turn it round for the maximum profit , but surely any buyer would have the gumption to do " due diligence " on a potential purchase even in the hope of getting a price reduction ? The girlfriend of course is more charitable reminding me that I was " young " myself once and I suppose she has a point but I dont believe I was ever that " young " that I would have missed something so obvious , its a bit like buying your first car , you always check the tyres .

Anyway my spare rope is now gone and another Boat is London Bound for some young couple to live the dream , I wonder what they paid for her 😀

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well done for helping them. thats good karma ,as you say the marina should have done a quick speccy

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9 minutes ago, Nut said:

well done for helping them. thats good karma ,as you say the marina should have done a quick speccy

Why ?

The broker has no liability or responsibility, they are not the seller, (boats purchased from Whilton have been known to sink after departure and before arriving in London - there is no come-back on a broker)

 

It appears as if it is felt that every seller should sell the boat fully & correctly equipped to go cruising.

 

But well done to Parahandy.

Edited by Alan de Enfield

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it might be more relevant to suggest that anyone in charge of a vessel (and the registered owner - before he/she is issued a licence) above a certain size should have a basic qualification in helmsmanship and general boat management if they cannot show reasonable previous experience.  That is what happens in France, why not here?  I'm surprised the insurance companies don't insist on it.

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9 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Why ?

The broker has no liability or responsibility, they are not the seller, (boats purchased from Whilton have been known to sink after departure and before arriving in London - there is no come-back on a broker)

 

It appears as if it is felt that every seller should sell the boat fully & correctly equipped to go cruising.

 

But well done to Parahandy.

You are of course right in what you say Alan and I suppose if you are a young couple buying a Boat its not as if you can grab " What Narrowboat " from the shelf in WH Smith .

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10 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Why ?

The broker has no liability or responsibility, they are not the seller, (boats purchased from Whilton have been known to sink after departure and before arriving in London - there is no come-back on a broker)

 

It appears as if it is felt that every seller should sell the boat fully & correctly equipped to go cruising.

 

But well done to Parahandy.

I would hope that Whilton and other brokers would advise new buyers of any obvious requirements for a boat they have sold. Probably few do though. I helped a guy on a brand new wide beam last year. The ropes on that were I’d guess only 4 or 5 mm diameter. Re Whilton, just how many of their boats have sunk on the way to London? 

5 minutes ago, Murflynn said:

it might be more relevant to suggest that anyone in charge of a vessel (and the registered owner - before he/she is issued a licence) above a certain size should have a basic qualification in helmsmanship and general boat management if they cannot show reasonable previous experience.  That is what happens in France, why not here?  I'm surprised the insurance companies don't insist on it.

Just what we need... more H&S.

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7 minutes ago, Murflynn said:

it might be more relevant to suggest that anyone in charge of a vessel (and the registered owner - before he/she is issued a licence) above a certain size should have a basic qualification in helmsmanship and general boat management if they cannot show reasonable previous experience.  That is what happens in France, why not here? 

The French system is, to say the least, peculiar: if you buy a boat, you have to pass a test before you can drive it on VNF waters; but if you're hiring (and thus more likely to be a complete tyro) you don't need to pass a test. The French are usually very logical but the logic of this escapes me.

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The boats that tend to be sold at our marina are somewhat different to narrowboats but there is still no tuition or advice given for the brokerage boats that they sell. They simply hand over the keys to your new (to you) sports boats with twin V8's and send you on your merry way.

 

Not unsurprisingly many of them never make it out of the marina gates having scared themselves stupid trying to get off the sales berth and onto their own berth. Many end up staying on their own berth only to be put back up for sale again after the new owners never find the nerve to go out on them again.

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10 minutes ago, Murflynn said:

it might be more relevant to suggest that anyone in charge of a vessel (and the registered owner - before he/she is issued a licence) above a certain size should have a basic qualification in helmsmanship and general boat management if they cannot show reasonable previous experience.  That is what happens in France, why not here?  I'm surprised the insurance companies don't insist on it.

I think most/many countries around the world have similar requirements - the Uk is (almost) unique in that you can buy a boat and just disappear off into the blue yonder with no training or even insurance.

 

 

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25 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Why ?

The broker has no liability or responsibility, they are not the seller, (boats purchased from Whilton have been known to sink after departure and before arriving in London - there is no come-back on a broker)

 

It appears as if it is felt that every seller should sell the boat fully & correctly equipped to go cruising.

 

But well done to Parahandy.

It's not just brokers. I picked up a newly commissoned £150k boat to move for a 5 day trip in Winter. No mooring pins or chains, mallet,  gas (how was it tested to gain BSS), I had to pinch the orange twine from the boatyard so I had a line at the rear, not even any water ......

 

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Just now, matty40s said:

It's not just brokers. I picked up a newly commissoned £150k boat to move for a 5 day trip in Winter. No mooring pins or chains, mallet,  gas (how was it tested to gain BSS), I had to pinch the orange twine from the boatyard so I had a line at the rear, not even any water ......

 

I'm not surprised. They are selling the boat not the cruising gear to go with it. That is for the owner to provide or buy as extras.

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Just now, Naughty Cal said:

I'm not surprised. They are selling the boat not the cruising gear to go with it. That is for the owner to provide or buy as extras.

Agreed. Up to the new owners to provide. If they didn't have ropes, did they have a license and insurance!

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I think that the thrill of or(otherwise) of being a boat owner blocks out possibly the advice /info given I remember trying to help /advise a young couple on what to do to get around problem they were having all I got to me explaining was "Yea Yea" & no notice was taken so I left them to it to come across them some week or so later still having the same problem  so perhaps the broker s have got tired of being paid no heed to

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45 minutes ago, Nut said:

well done for helping them. thats good karma ,as you say the marina should have done a quick speccy

 

But this is the point isn't it? The BUYERS should have done 'a quick speccy', not the marina.

 

I can see why we have a 'nanny state' when people hold views like this.

 

 

 

Edited by Mike the Boilerman

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1 minute ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

But this is the point isn't it? The BUYERS should have done 'a quick speccy', not the marina.

 

 

Your point is a valid one; but is there no law which says that a boat should be "fit for purpose"? If you can't moor it because it has no stakes or ropes, then surely it isn't?

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Just now, Athy said:

Your point is a valid one; but is there no law which says that a boat should be "fit for purpose"? If you can't moor it because it has no stakes or ropes, then surely it isn't?

 

Nope.

 

If you think there is, can you quote it please? 

 

Much obliged...

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1 minute ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Nope.

 

If you think there is, can you quote it please? 

 

 

We ask the questions.

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7 minutes ago, Athy said:

Your point is a valid one; but is there no law which says that a boat should be "fit for purpose"? If you can't moor it because it has no stakes or ropes, then surely it isn't?

...but it did have ropes. Just not very good ones. Will not the Sale of goods act apply if sold by a company but obviously not a private sale? I thought I heard Whilton did own some of the boats they sell.

Edited by Dr Bob

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Just now, Dr Bob said:

Will not the Sale of goods act apply if sold by a company but obviously not a private sale?

 

Or to second hand goods?

 

I think the only obligation on Whilton is to accurately describe the item being sold, i.e. not deliberately mislead the customer. Unless the sales brochure perhaps states the boat contains suitable mooring lines in good condition. 

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1 minute ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

My question was rhetorical, as I know you will be unable to answer, as there is no such law. 

...and my question was not rhetorical, as I sought enlightenment. I have heard the expression "fit for purpose" applied to the sale of goods. So it doesn't apply to boats?

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Just now, Athy said:

...and my question was not rhetorical, as I sought enlightenment. I have heard the expression "fit for purpose" applied to the sale of goods. So it doesn't apply to boats?

 

And I answered you, with this:

 

8 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Nope.

 

:)

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1 minute ago, Athy said:

...and my question was not rhetorical, as I sought enlightenment. I have heard the expression "fit for purpose" applied to the sale of goods. So it doesn't apply to boats?

I suppose even with the best of intentions there must be a limit to what they can check ? I know some car dealers have a tick sheet that comes with the Cars paperwork but I haven't seen similar in a Brokerage

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