Bubble test install

[W+T]

An honest question

 

Since all these Cert`s etc etc have come about has there be less cock ups which have caused loss of life or disasters.

 

Just wondering

[nicknorman]

8 minutes ago, W+T said:

An honest question

 

Since all these Cert`s etc etc have come about has there be less cock ups which have caused loss of life or disasters.

 

Just wondering

I'd say yes, but it certainly hasn't eliminated them. Still plenty of cowboys with bits of paper around!

[WotEver]

Several years ago we had BG install a new boiler at home.

12 months later came the first safety check. "Oh, they should have fire-proofed this entry hole for the gas pipe."  says the inspector. So he fixes it. 

Another 12 months, another safety check. "Oh, the flue has been fitted incorrectly, the horizontal part mustn't have a dip in it like that."  So, once the new parts arrive he fixes it. 

Another 12 months, another safety check. "Oh, you don't have a fire-break plate where the flue enters the ceiling."  He fixes it. 

Were any of the above 'fixes' essential? Only because the regs/guidance had changed afaik. Would we still be here if they hadn't been done? I suspect so. 

[W+T]

3 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

I'd say yes, but it certainly hasn't eliminated them. Still plenty of cowboys with bits of paper around!

 

You say yes but is it proved to be ?

Things will never be eliminated as even so called pro`s cock up a lot.

1 minute ago, WotEver said:

Several years ago we had BG install a new boiler at home.

12 months later came the first safety check. "Oh, they should have fire-proofed this entry hole for the gas pipe."  says the inspector. So he fixes it. 

Another 12 months, another safety check. "Oh, the flue has been fitted incorrectly, the horizontal part mustn't have a dip in it like that."  So, once the new parts arrive he fixes it. 

Another 12 months, another safety check. "Oh, you don't have a fire-break plate where the flue enters the ceiling."  He fixes it. 

Were any of the above 'fixes' essential? Only because the regs/guidance had changed afaik. Would we still be here if they hadn't been done? I suspect so. 

 

 

To many con artists about i say. 

 

Had it tried in our house a while ago. I am dim at times but not that dim to know when i am being ripped off. 

 

Fitter tried to say the boiler wa sunsafe as the viewing glass was cracked and he wanted £50 or so to fix it.

 

I got another chap in free of charge and he ordered us a glass for a tenner. Fitted it myself, and above all it was fie as it was. Well it was missing for a few years previous and we am still here telling the tail.

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

6 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Several years ago we had BG install a new boiler at home.

12 months later came the first safety check. "Oh, they should have fire-proofed this entry hole for the gas pipe."  says the inspector. So he fixes it. 

Another 12 months, another safety check. "Oh, the flue has been fitted incorrectly, the horizontal part mustn't have a dip in it like that."  So, once the new parts arrive he fixes it. 

Another 12 months, another safety check. "Oh, you don't have a fire-break plate where the flue enters the ceiling."  He fixes it. 

Were any of the above 'fixes' essential? Only because the regs/guidance had changed afaik. Would we still be here if they hadn't been done? I suspect so. 

Or : the regs / guidance had not changed but each of the inspectors interpretation was different.

That is my main 'problem' with the BS Scheme

[WotEver]

I must point out that all the 'fixes' I referred to were free. Their installation, their fix. 

5 minutes ago, W+T said:

To many con artists about i say. 

Not the case in this instance though. 

[W+T]

1 minute ago, WotEver said:

I must point out that all the 'fixes' I referred to were free. Their installation, their fix. 

Not the case in this instance though. 

lol

 

ok shite at there job and/or not a clue.

 

goes to show what a Cert means though hey. 

[MtB]

On 13/07/2017 at 18:13, W+T said:

 

You say yes but is it proved to be ?

Things will never be eliminated as even so called pro`s cock up a lot.

 

 

To many con artists about i say. 

 

Had it tried in our house a while ago. I am dim at times but not that dim to know when i am being ripped off. 

 

Fitter tried to say the boiler wa sunsafe as the viewing glass was cracked and he wanted £50 or so to fix it.

 

I got another chap in free of charge and he ordered us a glass for a tenner. Fitted it myself, and above all it was fie as it was. Well it was missing for a few years previous and we am still here telling the tail.

 

 

 

This problem IS a safety issue, so we are instructed by GSR. 

It can often be fixed for as little as 2p though. You take the cracked glass out an replace it with the 2p coin

[W+T]

5 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

This problem IS a safety issue, so we are instructed by GSR. 

It can often be fixed for as little as 2p though. You take the cracked glass out an replace it with the 2p coin

 

It maybe Mike but to get ripped off by some is wrong, and safe, as said we are still here and no ill affects. 

 

So shows that the GSR can be OTT in a way.

 

You would of been shocked at the state of the boiler when we had it fitted, i could of dome better myself. Burnt wires to the thermostat from the heat gun, draughts from the flue in to the house. condenser pipe or what ever it is called ripping inside the house. 

No wonder i don trust anybody.

 

A few folk said i should get the bubble tester i fitted to my boat certified, i like hell i am. for some gonk to come and think he is a mechanic and suck on his teeth and want £000 to tighten my nuts more lol. 

[WotEver]

1 minute ago, W+T said:

suck on his teeth and want £000 to tighten my nuts

[David Schweizer]

29 minutes ago, W+T said:

 

It maybe Mike but to get ripped off by some is wrong, and safe, as said we are still here and no ill affects. 

 

So shows that the GSR can be OTT in a way.

 

You would of been shocked at the state of the boiler when we had it fitted, i could of dome better myself. Burnt wires to the thermostat from the heat gun, draughts from the flue in to the house. condenser pipe or what ever it is called ripping inside the house. 

No wonder i don trust anybody.

 

A few folk said i should get the bubble tester i fitted to my boat certified, i like hell i am. for some gonk to come and think he is a mechanic and suck on his teeth and want £000 to tighten my nuts more lol. 

My late Father in Law had a new gas boiler installed by the Gas Board, it was an apalling job, with loose cables dangling and untidy visible pipework. I have never allowed the gas board into my house, and his installation confirmed my suspicions about the quality of their work.

Until they changed the regulations. I always did my own gas fitting and boiler installations, but since I have now been deemed incompetent, I use a well respected local private tradesman, he installed our latest boiler, he wasn't cheap, but he did a brilliant job.

Moral :- Never use the Gas Board. Anyone who is half decent can earn a respectable living as a private contractor, only cowbotys have to rely on the Gas Board for a living.

[Iain_S]

5 hours ago, garyslaw said:

Easier said than done here in Scotland. Nobody has em all. I contacted them all

That's why we have a bubble tester .... 

[WotEver]

If it helps, here's how I fitted one...

1. Purchase bubble tester

2. Realise the fittings are metric and I need imperial. 

3. Order imperial fittings. 

4. Discover that the existing fittings are REALLY TIGHT and require a vice in addition to a spanner to change them. 

5. Take tester home to vice and change fittings. 

6. Return to boat, look at job and decide that as I'm not a double-jointed midget that fitting it into the gas locker will be a right royal pain. 

7. Pay someone to fit it for me

Tony

[MtB]

On 13/07/2017 at 20:21, WotEver said:

If it helps, here's how I fitted one...

1. Purchase bubble tester

2. Realise the fittings are metric and I need imperial. 

3. Order imperial fittings. 

4. Discover that the existing fittings are REALLY TIGHT and require a vice in addition to a spanner to change them. 

5. Take tester home to vice and change fittings. 

6. Return to boat, look at job and decide that as I'm not a double-jointed midget that fitting it into the gas locker will be a right royal pain. 

7. Pay someone to fit it for me

Tony

 

And do tell, how often do you use it? 

ISTR the instructions suggest weekly.... yeah right!!

[WotEver]

Just now, Mike the Boilerman said:

And do tell, how often do you use it? 

Once every 4 years

[MtB]

On 13/07/2017 at 20:28, WotEver said:

Once every 4 years

Still have a double jointed neck and arms then?! (And a torch)

[WotEver]

28 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Still have a double jointed neck and arms then?! (And a torch)

No, I sold the boat 

[Murflynn]

56 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

And do tell, how often do you use it? 

ISTR the instructions suggest weekly.... yeah right!!

that is the main advantage of a bubble tester - the boatowner can check for leaks regularly.  I suggest you should have a monthly check list for things that you won't encounter during normal use of the boat: for example - battery levels, bubble tester, etc.

[mark99]

1 hour ago, David Schweizer said:

My late Father in Law had a new gas boiler installed by the Gas Board, it was an apalling job, with loose cables dangling and untidy visible pipework. I have never allowed the gas board into my house, and his installation confirmed my suspicions about the quality of their work.

Until they changed the regulations. I always did my own gas fitting and boiler installations, but since I have now been deemed incompetent, I use a well respected local private tradesman, he installed our latest boiler, he wasn't cheap, but he did a brilliant job.

Moral :- Never use the Gas Board. Anyone who is half decent can earn a respectable living as a private contractor, only cowbotys have to rely on the Gas Board for a living.

Can you specify who is the gas board exactly please?

This should be fun.

Edited July 13, 2017 by mark99

[MtB]

On 13/07/2017 at 21:29, mark99 said:

Can you specify who is the gas board exactly please?

This should be fun.

 

I was thinking that too. The gas industry was nationalised for a remarkably short period of time IIRC. 

[AndrewIC]

7 hours ago, garyslaw said:

Here is what i have. There are setups on both sides with 2 bottles each. Dont ask me why but that is the way it is. I dont really know what i have there

I don't really know what you have there either . However, whatever you do do, DO NOT cut those hoses and try to install a bubble tester into them. Those are high pressure "pigtails" working at cylinder pressure, a bubble tester would be installed on the low pressure side downstream of the regulator.

You seem to have two separate gas systems there, which would be, at best, "a bit odd". If you don't understand what you have, get someone appropriately qualified who knows what they are doing to look at it.

[jonathanA]

9 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Because a liveaboard boat comes under GSIUR regulations and a non-gas approved surveyor cannot use a manometer, unless the boat owner employs a 'gas-bod' to work the manometer whilst the BSS surveyor watches him, and notes the results.

 

From the BSS training notes for their surveyors / examiners :

keeping on the right side of the law

Boats used for residential purposes as well as hire boats* and floating businesses* (such as cafés or shops) all fall within scope of the Gas Safety [Installation and Use] Regulations (GSIUR) and as such any LPG 'work' must be undertaken by Gas Safe registered installers.

As the definition of 'work' covers the removal and replacement of a screw nipple on a gas test point, the scope of the GSIUR includes carrying out BSS LPG tightness test.

So, on a boat in scope of GSIUR, examiners who are not Gas Safe registered can only complete check 7.12.2 by either:

• undertaking a gas tightness test using a bubble tester where fitted and correctly located; or,
• observing the tightness test conducted by a (LPG boats-competent) Gas Safe registered installer

It is important to be aware that people who are prosecuted and found guilty of contravening the GSIUR, can face fines of up to £5000 for each offence or even jail terms for very serious breaches. The HSE and local authorities are active in pursuing people not complying with the regulations, especially where hazards have arisen.

Calor seem to be using Schreader type valves now on their installs as test points rather than screw type nipples, so presumably this would solve the problem ?

 

[MtB]

On 14/07/2017 at 00:15, jonathanA said:

Calor seem to be using Schreader type valves now on their installs as test points rather than screw type nipples, so presumably this would solve the problem ?

 

 

Really? This seems vanishingly unlikely. Where have you obtained this information? I'm reasonably sure it will be an error.

[David Schweizer]

3 hours ago, mark99 said:

Can you specify who is the gas board exactly please?

This should be fun.

 

2 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I was thinking that too. The gas industry was nationalised for a remarkably short period of time IIRC. 

The Nationalized Gas Boards existed for nearly thirty years from just after the War until they were Privatised in 1986, when they were re-named British Gas.  As only one board served one area people generally referred to their gas supplier as "The Gas Board" and for some people that term has continued to be used to describe "British Gas" But then you knew that and were just trying to be clever!

[MtB]

On 14/07/2017 at 00:48, David Schweizer said:

 

The Nationalized Gas Boards existed for nearly thirty years from just after the War until they were Privatised in 1986, when they were re-named British Gas.  As only one board served one area people generally referred to their gas supplier as "The Gas Board" and for some people that term has continued to be used to describe "British Gas" But then you knew that and were just trying to be clever!

 

Exactly. It has been British Gas for longer than it was the nationalised Gas Board. 

Prior to nationalisation there were dozens of regional gas companies, manufacturing 'town gas' from coal mainly. All had different safety standards but it took the Ronan Point disaster in London in 1968 to prompt the unification of regional standards and the drafting of the Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations. It's hard to find out about the history of the GSIUR but I believe the first instance of the GSIUR which made CORGI registration mandatory came into force around 1984. They were last updated in 1998.

Mark99 may be able to correct some of this and/or fill in some details.