Shoreline Electrical Points (Hook ups)

[WotEver]

2 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Sorry. I meant how do you know they aren't being charged 100% on a daily basis. 

 

2 hours ago, WotEver said:

Because your solar will give you virtually no useful output for three months of the year. When you are iced in and cannot cruise and have zero solar how are you going to charge the batteries without a charger?

 

[rusty69]

1 minute ago, WotEver said:

 

 

What about an engine driven alternator? 

Edited March 6, 2017 by rusty69

[Robbo]

Just now, rusty69 said:

Ah.but perhaps they have other means that we are unaware of. 

Off grid power generation is usually solar, wind, genny.  Solar, good for summer.  Wind good for nothing.  Genny good for emptying your wallet.   If you have shore power it's worth getting a charger, espicallu if you use the boat in winter.   If you don't use it in winter It would depend how much solar you have, but AGM, Gel and lithium are best types of battery to have as the self discharge will be minimal.

[WotEver]

Just now, rusty69 said:

What about the alternator? 

Run the engine in gear for 8 hours a day whilst moored up?

[rusty69]

2 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Run the engine in gear for 8 hours a day whilst moored up?

Perhaps the batteries are not in daily use! 

[Robbo]

3 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Perhaps the batteries are not in daily use! 

Batteries discharge themselves even when not in use.

[rusty69]

5 minutes ago, Robbo said:

Batteries discharge themselves even when not in use.

Would the solar not compensate for this self discharge? 

Edited March 6, 2017 by rusty69

[mrsmelly]

32 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

THE BATTERIES ARE FINE! 

I bought a boat with Traction batteries that were FINE.................Thats why I binned em................Still we have tried but some people ask questions and know better anyway.

[Robbo]

3 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Would the solar not compensate for this self discharge? 

Depends on the amount of solar, size of bank and battery type.  There is other benefits from a shore power charger as it's easier to do a equalisation charge which deep cycle traction batteries do benefit from.

[rusty69]

Just now, Robbo said:

Depends on the amount of solar, size of bank and battery type.  There is other benefits from a shore power charger as it's easier to do a equalisation charge which deep cycle traction batteries do benefit from.

So without knowing more, could it be fair to say:-

THE BATTERIES ARE FINE

 

? 

[Robbo]

7 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

So without knowing more, could it be fair to say:-

THE BATTERIES ARE FINE

 

? 

No batteries are fine if you are actually using them (and even if your not using them!).

Edited March 6, 2017 by Robbo

[rusty69]

2 minutes ago, Robbo said:

No batteries are fine if you are actually using them (and even if your not using them!).

Did you mean"  no batteries are fine unless you charge them to 100% on a daily basis,  apart from lithium as they different breed all together"

Where we came in..... 

[Robbo]

Just now, rusty69 said:

Did you mean"  no batteries are fine unless you charge them to 100% on a daily basis,  apart from lithium as they different breed all together"

Where we came in..... 

Discharging batteries hurts them

charging batteries hurts them, especially if trying to ram the amps into them.

leaving batteries hurts them, especially if you leave in a state of discharge for long periods.

leaving batteries on a charge hurts them (reason why decent chargers don't stay in float mode).

charging to 100% daily (wet cells) reduces the amount of damage you do to a battery.

 

lithiums tend to be different as they don't mind been at a stage of discharge (it's actually recommended to keep them at 50% for long periods of non use)

[rusty69]

10 minutes ago, Robbo said:

Discharging batteries hurts them

charging batteries hurts them, especially if trying to ram the amps into them.

leaving batteries hurts them, especially if you leave in a state of discharge for long periods.

leaving batteries on a charge hurts them (reason why decent chargers don't stay in float mode).

charging to 100% daily (wet cells) reduces the amount of damage you do to a battery.

 

lithiums tend to be different as they don't mind been at a stage of discharge (it's actually recommended to keep them at 50% for long periods of non use)

Agreed. That doesn't mean that they are not fine though. They are consumable items, who's life may be prolonged with a good charging regime. 

What we don't know, but has been assumed,  is that the OP has a less than optimal charging regime. 

[Robbo]

19 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Agreed. That doesn't mean that they are not fine though. They are consumable items, who's life may be prolonged with a good charging regime. 

What we don't know, but has been assumed,  is that the OP has a less than optimal charging regime. 

That's because it's almost impossible to have a optimal charging regime in winter and the darker months without shore power, using a engine based method is not efficient in any way.  I would still recommend a small battery charger to anyone that has regular shore power and a nice bank of batteries that they want to take care of, the cost is quite minimal especially when adding the cost of consumer unit, GI and labour, etc.  (if not DIY).

Edited March 6, 2017 by Robbo

[rusty69]

11 hours ago, Robbo said:

That's because it's almost impossible to have a optimal charging regime in winter and the darker months without shore power, using a engine based method is not efficient in any way.  I would still recommend a small battery charger to anyone that has regular shore power and a nice bank of batteries that they want to take care of.

Agreed,its difficult, but not impossible.

Edited March 7, 2017 by rusty69

[cuthound]

Going back to the OP'still original question, if the shore bollard doesn't have an RCD,  then you could use one of these.

http://cpc.farnell.com/pro-elec/kp-b13c/rcd-in-line-rewireable/dp/PL15119?CMP=CPC-PLA

Still not as good as a properly installed shoreline with rcd protected consumer unit.

 

[mross]

17 hours ago, KMK21 said:

what do you know that we don't ?

As a forum, a lot, probably

[mayalld]

16 hours ago, KMK21 said:

Chaps - no I am not gone. I am however a bit horrified about how you all make assumptions about things you know nothing about?

I asked a specific question in the General Forum about a shore line and potential connections. That was it.

I think we are battery covered thank you my hubby is a diesel engineer for 30+ years, original question was about LECKY 240 - Would a RCD be present in the marina ?. The Shoreline - but lets leave that then 

Thanks for your input  

Really ? :-)

 

The thing is that this is a discussion forum. People discuss things.

It isn't just a Q&A session where you ask questions, and people have to stick to the questions that you ask. That's what happens in discussion forums, and essentially you either work with the way discussions flow, or forums may not be for you!

You did indeed ask a very specific question, one which you imagined would have a yes/no answer.

The trouble is that no matter what the answer to the question you asked was, it was clear that you were asking the wrong question. No matter whether the marina does or does not have an RCD, you need one on board, and you need a proper 240V consumer unit and earth bonding, rather that treating the immersion as a portable appliance plugged direct to the shore line.

Once people see that you are asking the wrong questions, in their eagerness to help, they are quick to spot the questions that you aren't asking that you probably should be asking, and what you posted suggested that you have a hole in your power strategy. You have very nice batteries that can store lots of power but not a lot of means of getting that power.

that is likely to mean that;

1) In the winter, you will run out of power
2) In the winter, your batteries will fall to a low SoC, and end up goosed.

You mention their SoC being 85%. How do you KNOW this (many battery meters can give misleading figures)

 

[Murflynn]

19 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

I bought a boat with Traction batteries that were FINE.................Thats why I binned em................Still we have tried but some people ask questions and know better anyway.

OP didn't ask a question about charging the batteries.  I think we have all been told to mind our own business in this regard.  After all, OP's hubby is a diesel engineer so he knows all about these things.

Mayalld has given the best response to the specific question in his 4th paragraph.  

[peterboat]

Its amazing over 12 years with full tractions no shore connection not ccing and still my batteries work a miracle in fact!

Two years ago I removed one bank at 10 years old and had them checked, they were still fine in very good condition for age with good capacity  how did that happen?

[rusty69]

1 minute ago, peterboat said:

Its amazing over 12 years with full tractions no shore connection not ccing and still my batteries work a miracle in fact!

Two years ago I removed one bank at 10 years old and had them checked, they were still fine in very good condition for age with good capacity  how did that happen?

Do you have an engine driven alternator by chance? 

[Phil Ambrose]

He he he!!

Phil

[peterboat]

4 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Do you have an engine driven alternator by chance? 

I do along with 1 kw of solar and a whispergen. The midnite controller does equalisation and so does the whispergen if it senses the batteries need it. If I was ccing I suspect that the solar and alternator would do the job

[rusty69]

3 minutes ago, peterboat said:

I do along with 1 kw of solar and a whispergen. The midnite controller does equalisation and so does the whispergen if it senses the batteries need it. If I was ccing I suspect that the solar and alternator would do the job

Ah. OK. I'm not sure what a whispergen is. Is it some sort of battery charger?