Tug Ezra For Sale

[MtB]

The person who has waited over 2 years for a fix for a broken crankshaft on a similar engine in a sister boat might just disagree with that!

 

 

Yes I was always rather surprised they didn't hook out the National and fit something a bit madder, e.g. a Gleniffer, Skandia, Kromhaut, Kelvin, Samofa or something like that...

[sailor0500]

I've always rather liked the Tyler Wilson tug Ezra and I see it is now up for sale. But I am rather surprised to see it has no shower or toilet. Even in 37ft I would have expected that.

 

 

http://www.apolloduck.com/feature.phtml?id=504568

 

And some build pictures at http://www.tylerwilsonboats.com/index/#/tug-1/

I viewed Ezra last April. She is a beautiful boat and is very well maintained.I did not think she was much overpriced at 33k and was very interested in buying the boat. I have lived on many boats in my life, both yachts and narrow-boats, The smallest yacht being a 27 foot "Twister" class on-board which I lived and cruised extensively for three years. Bearing in mind that I had on-board all the tools which a traditional wooden boat builder uses to earn his living the accommodation was cramped to say the least. However at 70 years of age one needs a little more space and I reluctantly had to admit that the boat was not suitable for my purposes as the accommodation was even more cramped than I expected. I have to say that the vendor was a perfect gentleman and it was a pleasure to view "EZRA" I wish him well with the sale.

[Athy]

 

 

Yes I was always rather surprised they didn't hook out the National and fit something a bit madder, e.g. a Gleniffer, Skandia, Kromhaut, Kelvin, Samofa or something like that...

I'm puzzled by this. As I understand it, the poorly engine is a National DM2, which is a re-badged Russell Newbery DM2. As RNs are still made, how come a part is so difficult to obtain?

I'm sure I'm missing something and I'm sure that someone will swiftly tell me what it is.

[dmr]

This is a good looking boat with a proper back cabin and proper engine but looks very expensive for what it is.

The very short cabin and lack of bathroom rather limits its uses, its the sort of boat you might take to an event for the weekend. Trouble is its not historic, its a middle aged modern boat, for that money you could likely get a very nice proper old boat. Just a few extra feet would be really good.

 

..............Dave

[zenataomm]

I'd pay the difference and have Tycho, then I could really suffer ....... but historically, and with a truly mad engine.

[junior]

I'm sure when i first saw this boat advertised that it was for a fair bit less than this.

[Captain Pegg]

I'm sure when i first saw this boat advertised that it was for a fair bit less than this.

It was up for £37k for a long period during 2015. At the same time that Sudbury was up for sale for £33k. And Sudbury had a shower.

 

JP

[pete harrison]

I'd pay the difference and have Tycho, then I could really suffer ....... but historically, and with a truly mad engine.

But TYCHO is not for sale...................................................or is it ?

 

[zenataomm]

The Tycho was on the market last Summer.

The Vendor told me he wasn't bothered if it didn't sell, and if that was the case he'd take it back off the market for the Winter and try more seriously 2017.

 

I took that to mean "Don't bother me with silly offers"

 

I haven't heard anyone proudly screaming I've Bought Tycho!!!! (as would be the case if I did) so should anyone wish to burst my bubble please advise.

 

At the time she sported a cabin that reflected a maintenance boat (Naturally) so side bench and stove IIRC but no drop down bed or table and crumb drawer.

 

In front of the engine 'ole a couple of blue tops could be lined out for additional space.

A lot of work to undertake before even considering enticing a damsel aboard I feel.

 

But oh boy what a tool! ..... I am.

[alan_fincher]

I'm puzzled by this. As I understand it, the poorly engine is a National DM2, which is a re-badged Russell Newbery DM2. As RNs are still made, how come a part is so difficult to obtain?

I'm sure I'm missing something and I'm sure that someone will swiftly tell me what it is.

I'm no expert, but I don't think a National is just a rebadged RN. I doubt many parts are interchangeable between the two.

 

I'm also not convinced that although in theory you can buy a new RN that anybody actually has for quite a while.

 

But as I say I'm no expert.

 

The boat we tried to buy with an RN the vendor messed us around something shocking, and I believe several years on is still unsold. No other RN engined offering came up - although Sickle's original RN still exists in a modern boat the last I heard, soaybe one day some mad fool will attempt to reunite boat and engine.

[MtB]

I'm no expert, but I don't think a National is just a rebadged RN. I doubt many parts are interchangeable between the two.

 

I'm also not convinced that although in theory you can buy a new RN that anybody actually has for quite a while.

 

But as I say I'm no expert.

 

The boat we tried to buy with an RN the vendor messed us around something shocking, and I believe several years on is still unsold. No other RN engined offering came up - although Sickle's original RN still exists in a modern boat the last I heard, soaybe one day some mad fool will attempt to reunite boat and engine.

 

 

And I can imagine who that will be!

[Laurence Hogg]

I'm puzzled by this. As I understand it, the poorly engine is a National DM2, which is a re-badged Russell Newbery DM2. As RNs are still made, how come a part is so difficult to obtain?

I'm sure I'm missing something and I'm sure that someone will swiftly tell me what it is.

 

The DM2 was built at Ashton under Lyne and whilst similar to a RN is a National produced unit.

[Athy]

 

The DM2 was built at Ashton under Lyne and whilst similar to a RN is a National produced unit.

So it's not similar enough for parts from one to fit the other?

[David Mack]

So it's not similar enough for parts from one to fit the other?

Some parts fit, some don't. Fulbourne's National has a RN exhaust manifold.

[pete harrison]

The Tycho was on the market last Summer.

The Vendor told me he wasn't bothered if it didn't sell, and if that was the case he'd take it back off the market for the Winter and try more seriously 2017.

 

I took that to mean "Don't bother me with silly offers"

 

I haven't heard anyone proudly screaming I've Bought Tycho!!!! (as would be the case if I did) so should anyone wish to burst my bubble please advise.

 

At the time she sported a cabin that reflected a maintenance boat (Naturally) so side bench and stove IIRC but no drop down bed or table and crumb drawer.

 

In front of the engine 'ole a couple of blue tops could be lined out for additional space.

A lot of work to undertake before even considering enticing a damsel aboard I feel.

 

But oh boy what a tool! ..... I am.

I tried to offer TYCHO a good home when it was for sale last year, making contact with the owner in early August when it was priced on Apollo Duck at £45000 (advertised a month or so earlier at £52500). Unfortunately we could not quite agree on its value, but we were pretty close, and the advert was taken down on 17 September.

 

My plans were to fit out the cabin more conventionally, remove the 'blue tops' and run the deck back to the engine room bulkhead and return its livery to that of 'British Waterways' plain blue. In the longer term I would remove the overplating of the boats bottom as although this method was suggested by the Surveyor and its execution is of high quality I just do not like this method of repair.

 

Like you, I have not heard that TYCHO has been sold, and the owner back in the summer made it clear to me that he was indifferent whether it sold or not. As I was unable to find a suitable boat last year I have subsequently moved on to pastures new, although EZRA does hold considerable appeal to me -as would TYCHO at the right price

[alan_fincher]

The Tycho was on the market last Summer.

At the time she sported a cabin that reflected a maintenance boat (Naturally) so side bench and stove IIRC but no drop down bed or table and crumb drawer.

A "compromise" that Tycho's" close relative "Sickle" has is that it is fitted out with a full live aboard back cabin. This is a compromise we have to have really, as other than a loo in the engine room, that is all the space we have. A maintenance boat cabin wouldn't hack it, even if more historically correct.

 

I'm not a fan of Tycho's "blue tops", but fully concede that they are a change that can be made that is in no way permanent, but makes the boat far more liveable. In fact doing something similar would solve the most serious problem we now have with "Sickle" as a cruising boat - namely we really cannot fit our dogs in now we have a second one. But loosing any of the decked area would spoil its appearance completely IMO.

 

Several genuine ex working tug boats have attempted to solve the problem in various ways, such as the extension cabin on "Sudbury". I could live with this on a boat with less history, but Sudbury was shortened in (I assume) the 1970s, whereas Sickle' and Tycho's histories as ice-breaker tugs date from 1942, (so the vast majority of the 80 years since they were built as full length carrying boats).

 

I realise Pete has said he is not impressed by it, but I rather like "Tug No 2", because athough the cabin is somewhat extended over its Stewarts and Lloyds days, it is still fairly faithful to its look then.

 

Another solution would be the purpose built S&L tudgs Bittell and Pacific, which come with a longer cabin, but which externally are 100% as they always were - I'd certainly consider one of these if ever on the market.

[pete harrison]

I realise Pete has said he is not impressed by it, but I rather like "Tug No 2", because athough the cabin is somewhat extended over its Stewarts and Lloyds days, it is still fairly faithful to its look then.

Another solution would be the purpose built S&L tudgs Bittell and Pacific, which come with a longer cabin, but which externally are 100% as they always were - I'd certainly consider one of these if ever on the market.

Although I am not a 'fan' of TUG No. 2 (ALGOL) I am impressed by the quality of the work that has been carried out on it, and as I have said before I know the person who carried out much of this work and he was certainly passionate about this boat.

 

I am not sure BITTELL or PACIFIC have much of an advantage when it comes to interior cabin space. If my memory serves me correctly these boats have extended stern decks and the back half of the cabin is all engineroom. When combined with the 'tug deck' and small forward well there can not be much room left for living space, which of course these boats did not have by design

[alan_fincher]

I am not sure BITTELL or PACIFIC have much of an advantage when it comes to interior cabin space. If my memory serves me correctly these boats have extended stern decks and the back half of the cabin is all engineroom. When combined with the 'tug deck' and small forward well there can not be much room left for living space, which of course these boats did not have by design

I have never been in Bittell, I think, but have had a tour of Pacific in the past.

 

From memory the area between the back doors and the engine room accommodates a double bed of some sort, (it may be a "make up bed" - I really can't remember now. However I do recall it being said that this is not entirely ideal, as if the hatch is open it rains on the bed. Clearly this is to an extent true with side beds in a traditionally laid out cabin if the weather is rough enough, but I think in the case of Pacific the scope for getting the main bed damp may have been considerable(!)

 

EDIT:

 

Another tug that offers more accommodation than most without messing up the boat lines is "White Heather". A very acquired taste though, lovely though it is.

Edited February 12, 2017 by alan_fincher

[David Mack]

I have never been in Bittell, I think, but have had a tour of Pacific in the past.

 

From memory the area between the back doors and the engine room accommodates a double bed of some sort, (it may be a "make up bed" - I really can't remember now. However I do recall it being said that this is not entirely ideal, as if the hatch is open it rains on the bed. Clearly this is to an extent true with side beds in a traditionally laid out cabin if the weather is rough enough, but I think in the case of Pacific the scope for getting the main bed damp may have been considerable(!)

 

EDIT:

 

Another tug that offers more accommodation than most without messing up the boat lines is "White Heather". A very acquired taste though, lovely though it is.

White Heather only has the accommodation it has because it doesn't have its original engine installation.

[Chertsey]

Compare and contrast their tug 'Thelma' which, tellingly, was built for a lady customer - its cabin is a little longer, and I assume that this extra length (the web site doesn't show fitted-out views) includes some form of ablutions: some chaps are happy with a lick-and-a-promise and a bucket-and-chuckit, but few females would be as they're more fastidious.

 

This is of course a generalisation, but on viewing the above link to 'Ezra', my first thought was "That's very attractive", closely followed by "but Mrs. Athy would never countenance our buying a boat with no bathroom".

I am very fastidious, but find a handbowl wash perfectly acceptable and even superior in some ways to a shower (and no I am not going to elaborate).

[Athy]

I am very fastidious, but find a handbowl wash perfectly acceptable and even superior in some ways to a shower (and no I am not going to elaborate).

Fair comment; whatever, er, floats your boat.

[pete harrison]

Surely it is over engined and over priced?

 

Even so externally it really only says "fairly short Tyler/Wilson boat" to me - it somehow lacks the feel of a real tug.

This boat is also nearly 20 years old, so will soon start to fall into the category where some insurers insist on regular surveys.

 

I viewed Ezra last April. She is a beautiful boat and is very well maintained.I did not think she was much overpriced at 33k and was very interested in buying the boat.

So we have a few interesting opinions, and a general consensus that EZRA is overpriced at £33950 for a 20 year old boat without sanitary facilities - but what are the opinions of the great and good as to what this boat is actually worth, apart from the obvious - what somebody is prepared to pay for it ?

 

[Captain Pegg]

I don't think it is necessarily overpriced in the current market. It's just that it will only appeal to a very narrow band of buyer. 18 months ago it was up for sale at £37k against Sudbury (1937) at £34k, Denmark (1992) at £30k reduced from £35k and Thorn (1976) at £23k. Those were the boats I considered and didn't end up buying for varying reasons.

 

In that market I think it was overpriced given that all of them struggled to sell for month after month at those prices. Compare it at the present price to Caggy at £36k advertised (from memory) and Tug No 2 at something close to £50k and I don't think it is overpriced.

 

JP

[alan_fincher]

I don't think it is necessarily overpriced in the current market. It's just that it will only appeal to a very narrow band of buyer. 18 months ago it was up for sale at £37k against Sudbury (1937) at £34k, Denmark (1992) at £30k reduced from £35k and Thorn (1976) at £23k. Those were the boats I considered and didn't end up buying for varying reasons.

 

In that market I think it was overpriced given that all of them struggled to sell for month after month at those prices. Compare it at the present price to Caggy at £36k advertised (from memory) and Tug No 2 at something close to £50k and I don't think it is overpriced.

 

JP

 

I don't think there is any correlation you can make between the price of recently built boats, and those that are genuinely ex working boats.

 

The latter attract a price premium that I still find quite staggering, despite having bought a couple now. I don't think similar price premiums can possibly be applied to a "modern tug" of the vintage of (say) Ezra.

 

Not the question Pete is asking, but I truly have no idea how you can fairly price the genuine "historics". I'm sorry but they really do seem to come down to what someone is prepared to pay. You can't look at a boat similar to (say) Tycho, because nobody is selling one. Even if they were they would not have 5 feet of ice ram dating back to 1942 - even amongst historic boat owners that will attract some, and scare off others. I have no idea what someone would be prepared to pay for Tycho, (although Pete once did apparently!).

 

I never viewed it, other than externally, but the one I didn't understand was Sudbury. It seemed cheap for a 1930s boat, even if its heritage as a tug is only from the 1970s. All I can say is that I have met the new owners who are very pleased with it.

 

I didn't, (I think), express a view on the value of Ezra, and in all honesty I don't know. In my book though there are "faux tugs" that look quite a bit more convincing to me than that one does, so to me personally that would limit its appeal somewhat if I were after a "faux tug".

 

(....... And please don't keep mentioning Tug No 2 - I really don't need another!).

[Captain Pegg]

I don't think there is any correlation you can make between the price of recently built boats, and those that are genuinely ex working boats.

 

The latter attract a price premium that I still find quite staggering, despite having bought a couple now. I don't think similar price premiums can possibly be applied to a "modern tug" of the vintage of (say) Ezra.

Not the question Pete is asking, but I truly have no idea how you can fairly price the genuine "historics". I'm sorry but they really do seem to come down to what someone is prepared to pay. You can't look at a boat similar to (say) Tycho, because nobody is selling one. Even if they were they would not have 5 feet of ice ram dating back to 1942 - even amongst historic boat owners that will attract some, and scare off others. I have no idea what someone would be prepared to pay for Tycho, (although Pete once did apparently!).

I never viewed it, other than externally, but the one I didn't understand was Sudbury. It seemed cheap for a 1930s boat, even if its heritage as a tug is only from the 1970s. All I can say is that I have met the new owners who are very pleased with it.

 

I didn't, (I think), express a view on the value of Ezra, and in all honesty I don't know. In my book though there are "faux tugs" that look quite a bit more convincing to me than that one does, so to me personally that would limit its appeal somewhat if I were after a "faux tug".

(....... And please don't keep mentioning Tug No 2 - I really don't need another!).

Maybe not but if you want a narrow beam tug that's pretty much been the choice over the past couple of years. I don't think it's any more relevant to compare it to mainstream small narrowboats. That makes it pretty much one of a kind so valuing it really is hard. I still think the problem is the layout rather than the price.

 

As for Sudbury I spent a few hours on board but despite being a lovely boat it didn't grab me enough to make me want to buy it knowing that I wasn't getting sufficient accommodation for family cruising and that location, work and family commitments meant I would struggle to get it to events. So I really did match it up against non-historic boats. At the time compared to full length historic boats I didn't think it particularly cheap. They were selling in the £40-£50k range. Again though you need to know the condition to fully compare and on that score Sudbury appeared to be fine. The market of 18 months ago appears to have changed pretty quickly. In hindsight I am glad I bought when I did.

 

JP