Chris-B Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 Whist the purists will wail and gnash their teeth, we have had a new 'ellum made by Martin Kedian for our motorised Bantock VETO Despite the look it is not significantly heavier than the old , rotted damaged one and completed on time and within our limited budget For us it's a win win Lise n Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 Very nice! But why the apostrophe? What is " 'ellum" an abbreviation for? Just curious as I thought "ellum" was the whole word. I always imagined it was a corruption of the word "elm", or something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris-B Posted January 31, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 cos i aint as ejimicated as ewe r Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
system 4-50 Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 cos i aint as ejimicated as ewe r cos i aint as ejimicated as wot ewe r 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris-B Posted January 31, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 cos i aint as ejimicated as wot ewe r Greenie awarded . . . . . twat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stegra Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 Would elm not be 'elm as in helm them? https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/helm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 cos i aint as ejimicated as ewe r Its all a front. I know nothing, as any fule kno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris-B Posted January 31, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 lol Mike........;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 So, getting back on topic, can any of all you etymologists out there elaborate on the origins of the worm "ellum" please? Actually I'd like to refer myself to post 6, where stegra takes a credible stab at the etymology Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chertsey Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 Yes, I've always understood it to be from 'helm' hence the apostrophe would be for the dropped 'h'. I wouldn't bother with it though; I think 'ellum' is sufficiently established as a word in its own right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stegra Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 Yep. Brought up in the north east where we drank pints of miluk and watched filums at the cinema. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray T Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 (edited) From what little I know many of the working boaters were unable to read and through circumstance had little schooling. As they passed through many counties with different accents / dialects they pronounced words as they heard them. One classic example is Braaaunston with an elonglated A , which is the way locals still tend to pronounce it. It is not too far fetched to suggest that perhaps a Bristol / Gloucester or other style accent the pronunciation of Helm can be represented as ellum. Another example is the different spelling of Humphries from within the same family. I have written evidence of "Humphris" within the same close family. When boaters went to record hatch ums, match ums and despatch ums the recorders wrote what they heard not necessarily the spelling. Edited January 31, 2017 by Ray T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koukouvagia Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 (edited) Yes, I've always understood it to be from 'helm' hence the apostrophe would be for the dropped 'h'. I wouldn't bother with it though; I think 'ellum' is sufficiently established as a word in its own right. "Ellum" is found in early literature, but only as a dialect form of "elm" (the tree). "Elm" is found as a variant of "helm", but never with the spelling "ellum" Is "ellum" used exclusively in the narrow boat world? I suspect it was used by illiterate boatmen and women as a by-form of "helm". Someone, at some stage wrote this down as it was spoken. I wonder when it first appeared in print. I see Ray has said more or less the same. Edited January 31, 2017 by koukouvagia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray T Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 A variation? https://www.wordnik.com/words/ellum DefinitionsSorry, no definitions found. EtymologiesSorry, no etymologies found. Examples And the droning of bees and buzzing of flies, or the sudden clamour of a hen somewhere near would come floating in through the open window, and the odour of the flowers and the twigs of the "ellum" tree tapping at the pane helped to make the little church a haven of restfulness. The Bacillus of Beauty A Romance of To-day Orignially Deep Elm, but residents pronounced it "ellum" and it stuck Displaying my higgorence, what wood were butty rudders, including all the attachments made from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UseleSS Enterprise Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 I thought the ellum was the bit you stuck into the rudder to turn it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray T Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 (edited) I thought the ellum was the bit you stuck into the rudder to turn it. I've always known that as the tiller. Also used in offshore dinghy sailing circles. Not one of these: Also called a "Merry Tiller." Edited January 31, 2017 by Ray T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris-B Posted January 31, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 Or this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mac of Cygnet Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 Yes, I've always understood it to be from 'helm' hence the apostrophe would be for the dropped 'h'. I wouldn't bother with it though; I think 'ellum' is sufficiently established as a word in its own right. Not according to any online dictionary - it seems to have entirely escaped lexicographical notice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 I thought the ellum was the bit you stuck into the rudder to turn it. Actually you're right. I've always known that as the tiller. Also used in offshore dinghy sailing circles. It's only an ellum when it's specifically the long curved tiller bar on a butty which is removed and turned upside down so it points up in the air, to indicate you're moored and finished for the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UseleSS Enterprise Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 I just want you all to know that Mike the Boilerman said I'm right. I won't sleep tonight til I come down from that high. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cereal tiller Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 Whist the purists will wail and gnash their teeth, we have had a new 'ellum made by Martin Kedian for our motorised Bantock VETO Despite the look it is not significantly heavier than the old , rotted damaged one and completed on time and within our limited budget For us it's a win win Lise n Chris That Kedian Chap is rather good at Fabrication,not so good with Tree spotting though,That is not Elm! CT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray T Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 According to Mr E Padget-Tomlinson on a motor it is the tiller bar but no mention on a butty: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Kedian Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 And a pleasure it was as well interesting yet challenging fabrication Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizzard Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 I remember them on Sunday night at the London Palladium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray T Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 (edited) I thought the ellum was the bit you stuck into the rudder to turn it. Speaking to two boaters today, one ex Barlow's and BW the other ex BW, they both called this: a tiller. Both said "It is the ellum what it fits into." Edited February 1, 2017 by Ray T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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