Just a couple of questions from a wannabe boater

[grummit]

I have been browsing youtube and the web learning about narrow boats, and I am really interested in buying a boat in the future. I have a couple of questions and was hoping that some experienced boaters on this forum could help .

 

1. I see some quite intricate hot water systems involving hot water tanks heated by immersion, engine and stove etc. I haven't seen any using instant hot water heaters, you know the ones run by gas which heat the water as it flows to the tap. Wouldn't that be the simplest most efficient way to get hot water, without worrying about storage tanks, or is there some disadvantage that I am not aware of?

 

2. I see some quite beautiful looking boats ( 57ft) for around $48,000. Could anyone tell me if boats in that price range can be expected to be in excellent shape? Obviously I would get a survey done before making any decision. It's just that on the surface I don't see much difference between these boats and others for around $60,000. Any thoughts or advice?

.

3. Finally, I see some companies with a large number of boats on their books for sale, and was wondering are prices usually negotiable or do they tend to be priced firm? I just want to make sure I get decent value for my hard earned cash.

 

Thanks for any input.

Graham

 

 

 

[Robbo]

Plenty of boats if instant gas water heaters. Which is better is depends on how you use the boat.

 

If you have a home mooring with electric and go for cruises where your travelling near enough everyday then a hot water tank makes sense. Gas bottles don't last long with a water heater, so you'll be swapping around heavy bottles often.

 

If your off grid, have solar, only use the boat in summer then gas makes more sense.

 

2&3 that USD your quoting? $48k is more a older used car with a few owners, $60k is like a newer car with one care full owner. Of course the make (builder in the boats case) of the car counts as well.

 

yes everything is negotiable.

Edited December 20, 2016 by Robbo

[Athy]

Welcome! You will find varying (and often equally valid) opinions on here, but I'll start off:

 

1. For many years, the instant water heater was a standard fitting on narrowboats. Then, perhaps 10 or 15 years ago, they were no longer allowed to be fitted in new boats. Then I think that the rule was rescinded, so they can now be fitted. But the simple answer is that you will mind many boats which have them, but the majority will be quite old boats.

2. Think Mercedes-Benz and Ford. Cars which appear be of a similar shape, size and specification will sell for very different prices, partly because of the name's reputation and partly because of the quality of the build and fittings. As an example, many people would think Jonathan Wilson = Mercedes and Liverpool Boats = Ford. But second-hand prices are much more variable than those of cars. Condition is an important factor in the price.

3. Usually negotiable, though some brokers (such as ABNB) stand firmer on their prices than others. Various market forces come into play, for example, winter is coming and the seller wants to sell quickly to avoid having to pay mooring and licence fees until the spring, or seller is financially embarrassed and needs to sell his boat to raise some quick cash.

[mross]

Using the engine to heat the hot water is free. Gas heaters cost quite a lot to run. Many boats will have more than one way to heat water. Mine has an immersion heater, a gas boiler and a calorifier (engine heater). Some have a back-boiler on a solid fuel or wood-burning stove.

[Scholar Gypsy]

When our boat was built (1978, well some of it) it had gas fridge, cooker, space heater (catalytic heater - horrid thing) and instant water heater.

 

Now we just have the cooker which drastically reduces our gas consumption. More to the point it means we can turn the gas off overnight (simple isolation valve) which is much safer, as the pilot lights had a habit of blowing out ...

[Arthur Brown]

The first thing to consider is what you want the boat for! A residential boat used as home is usually equipped differently from a leisure boat used for two weeks in the summer and some weekends.

 

A hire boat may have 12 berths in the same length that a residential boat has three.

[Athy]

Using the engine to heat the hot water is free.

You must introduce me to your diesel supplier.

[mross]

Graham, please tell us about your situation. Will you be single handed? Do you think you will be in a marina or not? Have you considered hiring a narrowboat for a week to see if you enjoy locking? It's a great time of year to try as prices are lower and the bare trees allow great views.

You must introduce me to your diesel supplier.

You need to cruise more!

[Athy]

 

You need to cruise more!

[junior]

3. Usually negotiable, though some brokers (such as ABNB) stand firmer on their prices than others.

A technicality if I may...

 

Whilst bring able to suggest a price to owners, brokers do not set the prices, owners do.

I also believe that reputable brokers sign up to some sort of code that states ALL offers must be passed on to the owners. This means that whilst a broker might be able to offer advice, it is nothing to do with the broker if they "stand firm" or not on the price.

 

I know you probably know this Athy and I don't wish to take the thread OT, but I believe when answering newbies questions it is important to be factually correct.

Edited December 20, 2016 by junior

[Athy]

A technicality if I may...

 

Whilst bring able to suggest a price to owners, brokers do not set the prices, owners do.

I also believe that reputable brokers sign up to some sort of code that states ALL offers must be passed on to the owners. This means that whilst a broker might be able to offer advice, it is nothing to do with the broker if they "stand firm" or not on the price.

 

I know you probably know this Athy and I don't wish to take the thread OT, but I believe when answering newbies questions it is important to be factually correct.

 

We are agreeing, but expressing ourselves in different ways. I was factually correct, so were you.

Grummit, this exchange has raised a point which you may not have known: while some boats belong to the brokers who are offering them for sale, the majority are privately-owned, with the broker acting like an estate agent.

[WotEver]

We are agreeing, but expressing ourselves in different ways. I was factually correct, so were you.

Grummit, this exchange has raised a point which you may not have known: while some boats belong to the brokers who are offering them for sale, the majority are privately-owned, with the broker acting like an estate agent. realtor

There, I've fixed that for our American friend

[Athy]

There, I've fixed that for our American friend

Er, I believe he is Canadian. I have no idea what they are called over there.

 

Edit: a look at the internet suggests "real estate agent".

Edited December 20, 2016 by Athy

[Dave_P]

Welcome! You will find varying (and often equally valid) opinions on here, but I'll start off:

 

1. For many years, the instant water heater was a standard fitting on narrowboats. Then, perhaps 10 or 15 years ago, they were no longer allowed to be fitted in new boats. Then I think that the rule was rescinded, so they can now be fitted. But the simple answer is that you will mind many boats which have them, but the majority will be quite old boats.

2. Think Mercedes-Benz and Ford. Cars which appear be of a similar shape, size and specification will sell for very different prices, partly because of the name's reputation and partly because of the quality of the build and fittings. As an example, many people would think Jonathan Wilson = Mercedes and Liverpool Boats = Ford. But second-hand prices are much more variable than those of cars. Condition is an important factor in the price.

3. Usually negotiable, though some brokers (such as ABNB) stand firmer on their prices than others. Various market forces come into play, for example, winter is coming and the seller wants to sell quickly to avoid having to pay mooring and licence fees until the spring, or seller is financially embarrassed and needs to sell his boat to raise some quick cash.

I think you have your car manufacturers mixed up. For the last 15-20 years, Ford cars have had a better build quality than Mercedes.

Er, I believe he is Canadian. I have no idea what they are called over there.

 

Edit: a look at the internet suggests "real estate agent".

Of course, who would employ the services of an imaginary estate agent?

[Athy]

 

Of course, who would employ the services of an imaginary estate agent?

I'll set 'em up, you tell 'em.

A perfect example of the Moddies working as a team.

[WotEver]

Of course, who would employ the services of an imaginary estate agent?

Ahh, but is the opposite of real imaginary, or is it unreal?

[Mac of Cygnet]

Ahh, but is the opposite of real imaginary, or is it unreal?

 

Well, it could also be virtual. http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/streaming-service-launched-to-let-househunters-view-flats-from-their-desks-a3233696.html

 

Edited to apologise to the OP for taking this even further off topic

Edited December 20, 2016 by Mac of Cygnet

[mross]

I wouldn't bother, he's nowhere to be seen! We might as well amuse ourselves until he gets internet back.

[Machpoint005]

I think you have your car manufacturers mixed up. For the last 15-20 years, Ford cars have had a better build quality than Mercedes.

 

As well as having better designs in the first place!

[Bewildered]

Of course the cost of the boat isn't the only cost you need to consider

Licence fee £800-£1000 per year

Insurance £400-£500 per year

Marina fees (should you decided to keep the boat in a marina) £3000-£4000 per year

General boat maintenance £????? Per year

Consumables, diesel, gas, coal £???? Per year

 

Not trying to put you off, just pointing out that a good look through this forum ( not just current threads ) will give you a lot of info on what to expect

[Machpoint005]

You're overpaying for insurance -- my renewal was £125.

[grummit]

Well thank you all for your quick responses. Actually I am Canadian/British, and I meant to say 48,000 pounds in my second question, not $.

Some good points raised about gas heaters. I plan to do a lot of cruising, so I think an engine heated system would probably be best alongside an instant gas heater. When the water is heated I can turn the gas heater off (some don't have pilots, just battery operated spark).

And in Canada we call them realtors.

Mross - My situation is that I will spend most of my time cruising but probably tie up in a marina during winter months. I will be running single handed and yes I do plan to rent before making any decision (thanks for that).

Getting pretty excited about exploring the beautiful English countryside from a boat. Also expect to do a fair bit of hiking. I expect there are many footpaths that lead off from canals?

Oh just one more question. Could anybody tell me which manufacturers are renowned for their good design/quality boats, as I know nothing about them, I've only seen pictures and vids.

Thanks again

[Mac of Cygnet]

Well thank you all for your quick responses. Actually I am Canadian/British, and I meant to say 48,000 pounds in my second question, not $.

Some good points raised about gas heaters. I plan to do a lot of cruising, so I think an engine heated system would probably be best alongside an instant gas heater. When the water is heated I can turn the gas heater off (some don't have pilots, just battery operated spark).

And in Canada we call them realtors.

Mross - My situation is that I will spend most of my time cruising but probably tie up in a marina during winter months. I will be running single handed and yes I do plan to rent before making any decision (thanks for that).

Getting pretty excited about exploring the beautiful English countryside from a boat. Also expect to do a fair bit of hiking. I expect there are many footpaths that lead off from canals?

Oh just one more question. Could anybody tell me which manufacturers are renowned for their good design/quality boats, as I know nothing about them, I've only seen pictures and vids.

Thanks again

 

Of course many canals are not rural, but run through towns and cities. There are many who are devoted to the canals of Birmingham, which famously has more miles of canals than Venice (but not the climate or architecture!). As for footpaths, you will find that our Ordnance Survey maps show an intricate network of paths all over the country.

[mross]

Someone here will recommend a Hudson and lots of members will mock him, just for fun!

 

You should definitely NOT buy a boat over the internet unless you have a massive budget - meaning £120,00 plus. Come to UK and visit lots of brokers and marinas.

[Ex Brummie]

A hot water system that combines a calorifier with a multipont won't pass BSS.