Don't arrive at Sharpness Lock without a CRT licence

[Roger Crown]

Arriving yesterday morning at Sharpness from Portishead with the aid of one of the Gloucester Pilots we were greeted by the Lockie who announced that if we didn't have a CRT licence he can no longer provide a short term licence because they are no longer allowed to handle money and everything must be done on-line. He further stated that boats would be turned around and sent back down the estuary.

Our pilot was a bit taken aback by the news and confirmed that the Pilots would be adding the stipulation of a CRT licence to their pre voyage conditions.

 

This new procedure instigated by someone sitting in an office has the potential to endanger life, particularly for narrowboat crew. It is not illegal to travel from Bristol/Portishead without a pilot and every year many craft do go it alone.

Ideally the transit needs to be arranged so that the wind direction is with the tide, the pilots certainly wouldn't entertain transit with wind against tide.

 

If boats are turned at Sharpness on the whim of CRT then the consequences could be extremely dangerous. A well planned trip up stream could turn out to be disastrous when forced to go downstream with the wind now being against the ebbing tide.

 

We could quite easily have been sent back, our new (to us) boat had been off CRT waters for a while and not licensed with them, fortunately we renewed online before leaving Bristol because we wanted a full licence knowing, or thinking we knew that Sharpness could only supply a short term licence.

 

Just to add, the CRT lockies were not happy with the situation.

 

Roger

 

Edited to note a copy sent to Richard Parry

Edited December 8, 2016 by Roger Crown

[DHutch]

Quite supprised by that.

 

Even if they are no longer handling money, they should allow you entry to the lock and be able to take payment electronically even if only by lending you an ipad or use of a computer.

 

The other option would be to place you in a safe holding area.

 

 

Daniel

[BEngo]

When introducing the BSS BW gave an assurance that they would continue to permit entry to safe haven at all the entry points to their waterways, regardless of whether a BSS ( and thus licence) was current. They quite reasonably said that the entry would be to safe haven only, so, for example to just above Cromwell lock or into the basin at Keadby, but not beyond.

IIRC the push for this was led by the RYA so it might be worth bringing this to their attention. I would hope that IWA and NABO would also be interested.

 

N

[cheshire~rose]

 

 

If boats are turned at Sharpness on the whim of CRT then the consequences could be extremely dangerous. A well planned trip up stream could turn out to be disastrous when forced to go downstream with the wind now being against the ebbing tide.

 

 

 

I would have thought a well planned trip would include ensuring you have the relevant documentation to be allowed to enter the waters you are heading for.

[ditchcrawler]

When introducing the BSS BW gave an assurance that they would continue to permit entry to safe haven at all the entry points to their waterways, regardless of whether a BSS ( and thus licence) was current. They quite reasonably said that the entry would be to safe haven only, so, for example to just above Cromwell lock or into the basin at Keadby, but not beyond.

IIRC the push for this was led by the RYA so it might be worth bringing this to their attention. I would hope that IWA and NABO would also be interested.

 

N

Only if someone tells them

[Roger Crown]

Quite supprised by that.

 

Even if they are no longer handling money, they should allow you entry to the lock and be able to take payment electronically even if only by lending you an ipad or use of a computer.

 

The other option would be to place you in a safe holding area.

 

 

Daniel

I agree completely Daniel, that would be a logical thing to do, just a shame the actions put in place time and time again are not thought through.

 

I would have thought a well planned trip would include ensuring you have the relevant documentation to be allowed to enter the waters you are heading for.

Please read the OP carefully. If we had not had a licence, then up until our transit we would have been able to buy a short term licence at Sharpness

Roger

Edited December 8, 2016 by Roger Crown

[cheshire~rose]

 

Please read the OP carefully. If we had not had a licence, then up until our transit we would have been able to buy a short term licence at Sharpness

Roger

 

I did read it carefully. As I say in my mind part of the planning process would include ensuring having the correct licences for the waters you plan to travel. How can it be a carefully planned if you do not have a method of buying the licence?

[Roger Crown]

 

I did read it carefully. As I say in my mind part of the planning process would include ensuring having the correct licences for the waters you plan to travel. How can it be a carefully planned if you do not have a method of buying the licence?

???? there was a method, not available now . How can you plan for that ?

 

Am I missing something here ?

[Jerra]

???? there was a method, not available now . How can you plan for that ?

 

Am I missing something here ?

By not assuming and checking before you start? That IMO is one way.

[WotEver]

???? there was a method, not available now . How can you plan for that ?

 

Am I missing something here ?

You're missing nothing. CR is either being deliberately obtuse or surprisingly thick.

By not assuming and checking before you start? That IMO is one way.

So you haven't read and understood the OP either.

[Jerra]

You're missing nothing. CR is either being deliberately obtuse or surprisingly thick.

 

So you haven't read and understood the OP either.

I have read it and as I understand it you used to be able to buy a short term licence at the lock. People set off assuming they still can and find they are turned round.

 

Am I correct so far?

 

If that is the situation, not assuming that just because something used to happen it still does, and a quick phone call to check would solve the problem of arriving and not being allowed in.

 

Having reread note reread the OP what have I not understood? Enlighten me.

[WotEver]

I have read it and as I understand it you used to be able to buy a short term licence at the lock. People set off assuming they still can and find they are turned round.

 

Am I correct so far?

 

If that is the situation, not assuming that just because something used to happen it still does, and a quick phone call to check would solve the problem of arriving and not being allowed in.

 

Having reread note reread the OP what have I not understood? Enlighten me.

If you regularly do something a certain way and have been doing so for many years do you phone up every time you do it just in case the rules have changed?

 

I park in train station car parks by using a code from my phone. I don't phone ahead prior to every journey just to confirm that the system hasn't changed - why would I? If it did change one day then I'd share that information with my contacts who might find the information useful - just as OP has done.

 

OP was warning us all that the rules have changed with no notice so that now we know.

 

It was also news to the pilots who are supposed to ensure that you are equipped for the journey and even they didn't know, so obviously this is something new.

 

I'd like to thank the OP for passing on the information rather than sniping at him as if I'm somehow superior and would have checked in advance myself.

[ditchcrawler]

I would have thought that this trip was very weather dependant so if you were buying a visitor licence before you start and not knowing when you would arrive

[Jerra]

If you regularly do something a certain way and have been doing so for many years do you phone up every time you do it just in case the rules have changed?

With things as changeable as waterways e.g tunnel opening times lock opening etc yes I do.

 

You haven't outlined for me what it was I hadn't understood in the OP could you please do so, alternatively you could just say you were wrong when you said I hadn't read or understood the post.

 

I am prepared to accept either.

[WotEver]

With things as changeable as waterways e.g tunnel opening times lock opening etc yes I do.

 

You haven't outlined for me what it was I hadn't understood in the OP could you please do so, alternatively you could just say you were wrong when you said I hadn't read or understood the post.

 

I am prepared to accept either.

I explained clearly. It is quite apparent that you have a lack of comprehension.

 

Quite supprised by that.

Me too Daniel.

[Jerra]

I explained clearly. It is quite apparent that you have a lack of comprehension.

Apologies not a lack of comprehension a lack of concentration there have been certain events inm my life this week which have rather scrambled my concentration/emotions.

[WotEver]

Apologies not a lack of comprehension a lack of concentration there have been certain events inm my life this week which have rather scrambled my concentration/emotions.

Not a problem

[Geo]

I would have thought that this trip was very weather dependant so if you were buying a visitor licence before you start and not knowing when you would arrive

 

One could be stuck at Portishead for days at this time of the year. In the past because of weather changes I have sat at Portishead for, IIRC four/five days when moving boats. A visitors licence bought before I left Bristol would not have enough time to get through CRT water to other waters. For non-CRT licensed boats I always used to by a licence at Sharpness.

 

Think this should have been well publicised. Not doing so could endanger boats and crews if the insistence no entry to the lock without a licence. I wonder what the Gloucester Harbour Board will say about it.

Edited December 8, 2016 by Geo

[cheshire~rose]

 

 

If boats are turned at Sharpness on the whim of CRT then the consequences could be extremely dangerous. A well planned trip up stream could turn out to be disastrous when forced to go downstream with the wind now being against the ebbing tide.

 

 

 

I don't believe I am especially thick (even though I am blonde) but others may judge differently

 

I was not intending to be obtuse either. I could not see why I was reading this differently to others but I suspect it is a question of tense.

 

The OP describes a trip that has happened and had a surprising change in the rules. Yes, if the OP's trip had not been planned properly it could have turned out to be far more difficult (but in reality I suspect that no boat would have been sent back if it were deemed to be dangerous to do so)

 

When you say a well planned trip could turn out to be disastrous you speak of future trips. Well clearly the pilots are now aware of the requirements and will check before setting off. If others do not check then it is not, in my view a well planned trip. When locking out onto or in off tidal waters I always think it is better to assume nothing and to check and double check everything.

[Geo]

 

When you say a well planned trip could turn out to be disastrous you speak of future trips. Well clearly the pilots are now aware of the requirements and will check before setting off. If others do not check then it is not, in my view a well planned trip. When locking out onto or in off tidal waters I always think it is better to assume nothing and to check and double check everything.

 

There are people down there who quite regularly do that trip without a pilot and probably do it six or seven time a year, and buy a short term licence at Sharpness. It is not a difficult passage with the tide in the right boat.

[Chewbacka]

I am surprised they don't let you pass through the lock and then hold you in the port area. There is no chance you will escape onto the canal as you will not get under the low bridge. In fact they could even moor you up against the Liverpool light ship until you get a licence.

[Phoenix_V]

 

I would have thought a well planned trip would include ensuring you have the relevant documentation to be allowed to enter the waters you are heading for.

and a well run navigation authority would have the means to issue you a licence when you arrive, even the EA can do it

[Cheshire cat]

I am surprised they don't let you pass through the lock and then hold you in the port area. There is no chance you will escape onto the canal as you will not get under the low bridge. In fact they could even moor you up against the Liverpool light ship until you get a licence.

And charge you £250 a week for the pleasure

[cheshire~rose]

And charge you £250 a week for the pleasure

 

I assume they can't charge you as they can't take payment?

[hounddog]

is there not a law about them granting Safe Haven. I would think the lock keepers in particular and the CRT manager who dreamt this stupid idea from behind his computer would be open to manslaughter charges if the vessel floundered and people died as a result of their action.

 

Once again I am outraged by the actions of CRT. Not fit for purpose.

 

I would be interested on Nigel Moore and Dave Mayall's take on the law in these circumstances.