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alan_fincher

"Large Northwich" Engine Room Detail

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I had some interest in seeing pictures of what a "large Northwich looks like without the engine in, and with the floors up.

 

Many of these pictures are only possible if there is no engine room roof on at the time.

 

Here you go!

 

General view downwards.

P1000141_zpspamcjyhg.jpg

Looking towards back cabin, with end of drive shaft to prop visible. (Obviously a large battery bank and inverter / charger are not an original Yarwoods feature!)

 

P1000144_zpsdhgjj5oa.jpg

Looking forwards, showing detail of the fuel tanks, which have a raised triangular part, as well as extending under each side.
The horrible green plastic hose to fill is is not original, not in use, and will shortly be removed, hopefully....
I have stripped paint off the middle panel, just having removed a load of air ducting that was not really serving any useful purpose -one of those "do I or don't I things, as it was not original, but probably put there by Willow Wren in 1968.

 

P1000168_zpshopfwchr.jpg

 

Detail of fuel tank, and riveted structure to engine beds and bottom of boat.

 

P1000146_zpsajx7qu2v.jpg

 

The bottom in greater detail, showing still limited progress on fully degreasing it.

The cut away on the right hand side engine bed is to accommodate the flywheel / fan housing of the Lister, which would not fit otherwise. It is a bit of a bodge, and some strengthening of this area will be part of the current work.

 

P1000149_zpsqfemhhaz.jpg

Real anorak stuff. At this point the bottom plates ate joined not by a but-strap on the back, but by introducing a curved shape on the end of one, so that it laps up over the other one, and can be riveted through, leaving a smooth surface underneath - would swaging be an appropriate term - I'm not sure? (Hard to see in picture, but look below the two rows of four rivets, and you can see the plate dips down, in the short gap up to the cross member just beyond). Dave who is working on the boat seemed surprised by this original construction, explaining that it is rare to find one of these boats where the original features still survive fully at this point.

 

(This in area I hoped was now much cleaner, but the flash pictures still say otherwise!)

 

P1000163_zpshtojbi4q.jpg

 

On the left hand side of the boat, just forward of the back cabin, (the only place the fuel tanks would not make it impossible) are the sealed up holes where the two inlets were for the former water cooled National engine. Apparently the lower one was intended to be used if the boat was running light, whereas the upper one was intended for when the boat was fully loaded, the idea being to try not to suck in silt dislodged from the canal bottom.

 

P1000155_zps431zhrdt.jpg

 

Finally this picture shows disconnected end of drive shaft going under the back cabin, and detail of the pipework that balances the two fuel tanks. There is a gate valve on the feed from each tank, that allows this pipe to be isolated.

P1000154_zpshcsancag.jpg

 

 

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The arrangements for supporting the floor plates don't look original - in particular those Y-shaped pieces on the right hand / starboard side. On Fulbourne (Large Woolwich) the floor plates are supported on the engine beds and on longitudinal angles attached to the hull sides.

 

Interesting that the water inlet on the Large Northwich is on the opposite side to a Large Woolwich.

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The arrangements for supporting the floor plates don't look original - in particular those Y-shaped pieces on the right hand / starboard side.

 

I'm sure they are not - I suspect they are Willow Wren era, though I probably could never prove that. Obviously they would hardly help with removing the fuel tanks, should we ever choose to try!

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On the left hand side of the boat, just forward of the back cabin, (the only place the fuel tanks would not make it impossible) are the sealed up holes where the two inlets were for the former water cooled National engine. Apparently the lower one was intended to be used if the boat was running light, whereas the upper one was intended for when the boat was fully loaded, the idea being to try not to suck in silt dislodged from the canal bottom.

 

P1000155_zps431zhrdt.jpg

Oddly enough I'd taken a picture of the 'other side' of Nutfield's sealed up intake holes just this last weekend smile.png

 

29795706253_a32f740b69_c.jpg

2016-10-16 10.27.38 by Ian, on Flickr

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I've got upper and lower water intakes in Clypeus too, now used for the water-cooled JP2. Have been advised to keep the lower one closed, but that I could use it as a bodge if the upper gets clogged. I love the details in the design of the engine rooms in these boats. I see you don't have a pesky day tank either? I live in fear of forgetting to pump mine up, especially as my heating in the conversion is a diesel stove that runs off it as well.

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Fascinating detail and lovely clear pictures Alan.

 

Its looking very clean now, congrats on the scrub up.

 

What was the best cleanser in the end ?

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Its looking very clean now, congrats on the scrub up.

 

What was the best cleanser in the end ?

 

Unfortunately although it is massively cleaner than it was, it is still miles away from being clean enough to paint.

 

We are still looking for any magic potion that will fully degrease it, without resorting to steam cleaners, pressure washers of angle grinders, but on the evidence so far, I'm not sure it exists!

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Thanks for posting those , of great interest to another Northwich owner.

 

ETA . Is it not possible to get the tanks out . Steam cleaning would be a viable option if you could dig out the crud first .

Edited by madcat

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ETA . Is it not possible to get the tanks out . Steam cleaning would be a viable option if you could dig out the crud first .

This was my thoughts as well. Surely de-greasing and painting the bottoms is not worth doing if you do not do under / behind the tanks as well.

 

Although it is much more pleasant if the engine room 'bilge' is clean of debris I have always considered the oil residue to be a preservative, and is possibly a contributing factor to FLAMINGO retaining the bottoms it has (unless it has been over-plated underneath - but that is FLAMINGO's secret) captain.gif

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I think you will find that given the number of years that the oil and diesel has lain there it will have seriously soaked into the paint and therefore to get Paint to adhere properly you will need to get down to bare metal. We shot blasted ours and took the tanks out but under different circumstances. Good luck

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ETA . Is it not possible to get the tanks out . Steam cleaning would be a viable option if you could dig out the crud first .

 

We have already strayed way beyond the original brief - almost inevitable when am attempt was made to remove a dodgy room possibly for the first time in nearly 50 years.

 

Whilst I had an agreement that Flamingo could be at a yard, so one of the people could work on the engine for me as a private job, the boat was never booked in there for a major program of work by the yard itself. The yard have been terribly good about absorbing a lot of things that have either proved definitely necessary, or can be done to advantage while we are there, but we need to draw the line somewhere. The boat still has to be docked to investigate the distinct lack of performance from the prop in its current state.

 

This was my thoughts as well. Surely de-greasing and painting the bottoms is not worth doing if you do not do under / behind the tanks as well.

 

Although it is much more pleasant if the engine room 'bilge' is clean of debris I have always considered the oil residue to be a preservative, and is possibly a contributing factor to FLAMINGO retaining the bottoms it has (unless it has been over-plated underneath - but that is FLAMINGO's secret) captain.gif

Well the engine had to come out, the tanks did not. It seems a shame not to do what we can in the bit that is exposed. The tanks could theoretically come out at a later date without the engine doing so again.

 

The problem with the "oil residue" theory, is that it isn't just oil and grease. A lot of water ends up in there too - the cabin, doors and hatches far from rain proof, and anyway you often need to boat on a rainy day, and need ventilation to the air cooled engine. There is considerable pitting of the current steel, no doubt caused by it having remained wet for many years now.

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Have no idea if boating use the same term but aeronautical term for a plate that is stepped & placed over the next part to allow riveting was known as " joggling" swaging referred to some thing squeezed on & around another part

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I know it as 'joggling' as well. At the risk of becoming a bit obsessive about this I would take the lids off the tanks and clean out the crud whilst it is easy ish to get at. I had to do this early this year and it was a sod of a job and took days with awful access and a shocking mess in the tank.

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