Overstaying and Sighting Record

[dmr]

Just got an eMail from CaRT warning us that we have overstayed. I asked for my sighting record so I could work out what had gone wrong.

We usual do about 1000 miles each year so are not exactly continuous moorers, but we have spent the last month in the Stone and Stoke on Trent area, Gillie has broken her wrist so we are making a few visits to Stoke hospital, but we are still doing a LOT of moving about.

So, a month back we came out of Stone dry dock and stayed in Stone for a couple of days for the epoxy to get nice and hard. We were "sighted" there. We then cruised the Caldon canal (Black Lion and steam trains), went through Harecastle tunnel, cruised the Macclesfield and Peak Forest Canals, spent a couple of days in Stoke then back to Stone for a weekend in the wet dock. We came out of the wet dock and spent another couple of days in Stone, were sighted again (3 weeks after the last one) and this produced the overstay warning.

 

We know that the CaRT sighting system is not perfect and you are in one place till you are sighted somewhere else, we also suspect that Harecastle and similar loggings are not included in the sightings record. What is new and worrying is that sightings and warnings appear to be regional. Our sighting record showed all our sightings over the last few years on the Southern Trent and Mersey and Coventry canals but nowhere else. I suspect that once we moved onto the Macc that as we were in a different region no sightings were shared with the Stone enforcement officer so it looked like we had put down roots in Stone.

 

So, a bit of rather tongue in cheek advice to continuous moorers....don't move too far or you will be in right trouble!

 

................Dave

[GoodGurl]

last time i asked for my cruising logs they only recorded us on the T&M, they never saw us on the Llan, monty, shroppie,weaver, even tho we had to book the monty and anderton and also had our name/index recorded at harecastle, its a strange world innit.

[dmr]

Indeed it is, after I tried to explain the situation, CaRT responded by granting us a 14 day overstay in Stone!!!! Don't really want that, have already donated far too much money to the Swan, but hopefully at least we won't get another warning when we pass through Stone again next week.

 

...............Dave

[GoodGurl]

Indeed it is, after I tried to explain the situation, CaRT responded by granting us a 14 day overstay in Stone!!!! Don't really want that, have already donated far too much money to the Swan, but hopefully at least we won't get another warning when we pass through Stone again next week.

 

...............Dave

i just emailed them and asked why Harecastle,Anderton and Frankton hadn't been logged, the reply was not in so many words that i was a liar.

[metanoia]

i just emailed them and asked why Harecastle,Anderton and Frankton hadn't been logged, the reply was not in so many words that i was a liar.

A bit harsh, maybe - but then you, me and at least one other member know that you do like to take the p..... in many ways, don't we!!!!

 

ETA - not referring to movements or mooring, as you know ......

Edited September 10, 2016 by metanoia

[GoodGurl]

A bit harsh, maybe - but then you, me and at least one other member know that you do like to take the p..... in many ways, don't we!!!!

This is what Serina said.

Thank you for your e-mail.

I’ve looked at your sightings again, and double checked them with my colleague in our enforcement team, and they definitely represent all the information we hold for this period.

When and how often you’re sighted will be dictated by the work pattern of the local enforcement officers – inevitably that means that there’ll be some gaps between sightings. Though it would be very unusual if you had travelled that distance on our other navigations and not been sighted there at all

[dmr]

i just emailed them and asked why Harecastle,Anderton and Frankton hadn't been logged, the reply was not in so many words that i was a liar.

 

That's not good at all. Maybe now the enforcement team is rebranded as the boater support team things might get better?????

 

Data loggers enter your details onto a little tablet (of the silicon kind), Harecastle enter your details into a little notebook (of the paper kind), I really can't imagine anybody then re-enters that into a computer.

 

..................Dave

[matty40s]

My boat was moved from Stowe Hill in early June after some works, I didnt move it more than a mile as I had far more important things going on(dad having hip replacement in Blackpool), but I did move it.

It was also never on 'highly sought after'visitor moorings, but out in the sticks.

CRT sent me an email saying I hadn't moved and was overstaying .

I responded with the exact day of move and where I had moved the boat to, I also told them of the reason and for a short time I would be doing short hops in the vicinity, resuming my normal cruising when my Dad was mobile again.

They were happy with this, but due to complications and due to me really not wanting to keep an already CRT hasslessome pound with another hassle, I took a mooring for the first time in 9 years.

 

I have now been on a CRT lock landing for the last 46 minutes and will move off st first light.....it's HOLIDAY.....!!!!

[RLWP]

HOLIDAY.....!!!!

 

Hang on a bit - who said you could have a holiday?

 

Richard

[Greylady2]

I do a daily record diary but i think i might stop bothering, whats the point i doubt a scribble would be taken serious anyway.

[GoodGurl]

I do a daily record diary but i think i might stop bothering, whats the point i doubt a scribble would be taken serious anyway.

you have a home mooring so nothing to worry about xx

[dmr]

My boat was moved from Stowe Hill in early June after some works, I didnt move it more than a mile as I had far more important things going on(dad having hip replacement in Blackpool), but I did move it.

It was also never on 'highly sought after'visitor moorings, but out in the sticks.

CRT sent me an email saying I hadn't moved and was overstaying .

I responded with the exact day of move and where I had moved the boat to, I also told them of the reason and for a short time I would be doing short hops in the vicinity, resuming my normal cruising when my Dad was mobile again.

They were happy with this, but due to complications and due to me really not wanting to keep an already CRT hasslessome pound with another hassle, I took a mooring for the first time in 9 years.

 

I have now been on a CRT lock landing for the last 46 minutes and will move off st first light.....it's HOLIDAY.....!!!!

 

46 minutes on a lock landing? And I was worrying about spending 49 hours on a 48 hour visitor mooring.

 

and Holidays over, canal system really winding down into winter mode over the last couple of days.....where did I put that bag of coal?

 

...............Dave

[NilesMI]

Our sighting record showed all our sightings over the last few years on the Southern Trent and Mersey and Coventry canals but nowhere else. I suspect that once we moved onto the Macc that as we were in a different region no sightings were shared with the Stone enforcement officer so it looked like we had put down roots in Stone.

 

When you contacted the enforcement officer, did you ask whether this was actually the case and that the records they had were just partial/regional?

 

It could equally be that in providing them to you, so that you could see the two dates that had triggered the overstay warning, they had the ability to filter them by region and just provided those. Did you eventually find out whether your boat had been sighted elsewhere in the intervening dates and that because it was in a different region, CRT had ignored that sighting when triggering the overstay warning?

[RLWP]

 

46 minutes on a lock landing? And I was worrying about spending 49 hours on a 48 hour visitor mooring.

 

Matty has form. He has spent days in a lock chamber - some feeble excuse about The Soar being in flood....

 

Richard

 

It scared the willies out of me

[dmr]

 

When you contacted the enforcement officer, did you ask whether this was actually the case and that the records they had were just partial/regional?

 

It could equally be that in providing them to you, so that you could see the two dates that had triggered the overstay warning, they had the ability to filter them by region and just provided those. Did you eventually find out whether your boat had been sighted elsewhere in the intervening dates and that because it was in a different region, CRT had ignored that sighting when triggering the overstay warning?

 

I do need to talk to CaRT more about this, but the interesting thing was that they supplied the sightings of my boat for something like the past 4 years in the Southern T&M region. It might of course be nothing more than the local enforcement man misunderstanding how to extract data from the CaT database. The real issue for me is that CaRT are issuing warnings based on very poor data.

 

.....................Dave

[NilesMI]

 

The real issue for me is that CaRT are issuing warnings based on very poor data.

 

Well that's true. But it would be good to know exactly how bad. My suspicion is that they just run some numpty macro on a spreadsheet, but it would seem totally hopeless if it only includes sightings in a single region.

 

If/when you do get any kind of clarification, would be very interested to hear what they say.

 

Would also be interesting to find out if the loggers were out in Stone between the two dates which tiggered your warning and whatever system they are using ignored the fact that your boat wasn't sighted there.

[Jrtm]

We keep a log of when we moved and where we move to we also take pics where we stop this way if i ever get a letter and they try to say i havent moved ill just email the the log and copies of the pics as there all dated.

I think they should create an online log you fill it out by going onto the normal crt website you put in your movements. Then when a crt enforcement guy goes down the towpath he logs it as normal it then flags up if the 2 dont match to say 1mile of eachother this way it will stop people saying they have moved when not gives crt exact movements of boats so they can see where water may even be an issue or know how many boats will be held up by emergency repairs.

 

So you log it

They log it

Its then checked and flaged if your locations are different by 1 mile.

It wont flag if your moving as they wont check it wont flag as you cant relog a position if you havent moved

So if you log say braunstone then move to long buckby and log it

Crt then see you that day at braunstone before you left and log it no flag.

but you log to say youve moved but then crt check braunstone and log it and you havent moved it gets flaged.

 

This way no one can say they didnt move crt cant be accused of getting logs wrong.

 

I dont know how many times ive been logged but some weeks stop with the next village or large town ends others i move 15 hours boating if i got a letter saying i didnt move enought i would be happy emailing them to say there wrong but we all know crt and they will do what they want regardless. And this is the bottom line thats the problem!

 

The other issues are youve come from braunstone and want to go to say aylesbury arm so you travel. Now your in maffers you stop 14 days your logged by crt on day 1 and day 13 so crt have checked once a week but not on regular days. You now move and spend 4 days down aylesbury arm but dont get logged you then come back to marsworth and stop say round the corner from your last stop and are spotted and logged again on day 20 you stay for 14 days and your logged again on day 25. You then get an email letter youve not moved and are in breach of you licance. You cant prove it but they can even though you have moved!

They have got you for 4 weeks at marsworth in vertualy the same spot (but they will just log it as marsworth! So to them its the same spot) on 4 differnt weeks. but infact you have spent 14 days in Marsworth 4 days down aylesbury arm and 14 days in Marsworth

 

My point is the not logging your there can cause just as much prob as logging now if they had a list of the boats last there and then could log it as no seeing it this would solve that prob

Edited September 11, 2016 by billybobbooth

[Greylady2]

you have a home mooring so nothing to worry about xx

Cheers GG xx i hope so. :-)

[Dharl]

And I think that is the problem, CaRT do not have a good system to record boat movements whilst it is still us the boaters who have to "convince the board" of our vessels movements and meeting the terms of the license.

 

Agree with billybobboth that there should be a standard way of recording your position. Maybe not on line as not all boaters have access to the Internet whilst cruising, but perhaps there should be an official "Boaters Log Book" which is issued with our license? Needs to be fairly simple with the idea that the overnight position of the boat is recorded, 1 line per entry which would lost the canal that boat is on as well as closest structure such as bridge or lock.

[Jrtm]

If it was

Canal.. bridge a.. bridge b.. days stpped.. date..

 

Crt could still do there logs and we can upload when get a chance sdy needs doing once every 2 months

[Alan de Enfield]

And I think that is the problem, CaRT do not have a good system to record boat movements whilst it is still us the boaters who have to "convince the board" of our vessels movements and meeting the terms of the license.

 

Agree with billybobboth that there should be a standard way of recording your position. Maybe not on line as not all boaters have access to the Internet whilst cruising, but perhaps there should be an official "Boaters Log Book" which is issued with our license? Needs to be fairly simple with the idea that the overnight position of the boat is recorded, 1 line per entry which would lost the canal that boat is on as well as closest structure such as bridge or lock.

 

And now you will get 'howls of protest' :

 

I am not going to be 'tracked'

Its a free country

I don't have to tell them where I am

 

and so on

[Jrtm]

They already track you if your moving will be my answer.

 

And Its not a free country

 

And ill think you already half tell them where you are by your licance as do you tell them where you mooring is?

 

Dont you know you cant take a pee without someone watching you.

Its that or we can send you a letter saying your boat hasnt moved and or were not happy with your mooring arrangements. Lol

Edited September 11, 2016 by billybobbooth

[Dharl]

And now you will get 'howls of protest' :

 

I am not going to be 'tracked'

Its a free country

I don't have to tell them where I am

 

and so on

Yep you can't win!! Anyway it's only tracking the position of the boat not the people on it......the government know exactly where my house is at all times.......

[pearley]

We received a text back in April stating we had overstayed at the Pumphouse at Gifford. I phoned the number and said that in between the two sightings we had actually spent 7 days in the drydock at Hickory Port. She accepted that and said she would alter their records.

[starman]

If you ask the towpath trackers about the wide areas they have to cover you realise how easy it is to be missed. In fact, perversely, I would say that the more you move about the less likely you are to be recorded. So if you return to point A a month after you're recorded there it would be all too easy to be seen again without any record of where you've been between.

Daft! Personally I take photos and write a boring blog.

I imagine that like getting a poor credit rating it's hard to have a poor movement record reversed but I would demand it.