Old terminology for port, starboard, fore and aft, ahead and astern

[mross]

What did the old, working crews use for the above terms? I read on here, somewhere, recently, that port and starbaord (stb'd) were not used. I've heard of head instead of ahead as in 'put in head gear'.

 

Can anyone recommend a book that lists all the terms concisely?

[dave moore]

The Historic Boat Club have a glossary of terms from working boat days, complied by the late David Blagrove, in the last 2 issues of their newsletter. Boaters referred to the towpath and non towpath sides as " inside" and " outside" respectively and instructed trainee steerers to " hold in or hold out" meaning to steer towards the appropriate bank. There are many more terms, this is just a taster...I've painting to do!

 

Dave

[Ray T]

I haven't come across a book that lists the terms, possibly because of regional variations, but books by Tom Foxon are a guide:

 

Following the Trade

Anderton for Orders

Number One

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1/253-8192164-9898745?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=tom+foxon

 

When he was learning to steer as a youngster Mike Humphris dad put a bit of bread one one side of the cabin roof and a bit of cheese on the other, so his dad would say "Bread" or "Cheese" depending on which way he wanted him to steer.

 

An oft used term was "Get 'em ahead".

 

Also "Chuck it Back" - put the boat into reverse.

 

Edward Paget Tomlison has this in his book Canal & River Navigations for names of boat parts:

 

 

Edited September 9, 2016 by Ray T

[mross]

Jim Shead's site has a basic list

[mross]

@Ray T

 

Thanks. I ordered one of his books. There are thirteen listed on Amazon but most are £60 to £100+ Yikes!

[Rob-M]

I haven't come across a book that lists the terms, possibly because of regional variations, but books by Tom Foxon are a guide:

 

Following the Trade

Anderton for Orders

Number One

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1/253-8192164-9898745?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=tom+foxon

 

When he was learning to steer as a youngster Mike Humphris dad put a bit of bread one one side of the cabin roof and a bit of cheese on the other, so his dad would say "Bread" or "Cheese" depending on which way he wanted him to steer.

 

An oft used term was "Get 'em ahead".

 

Also "Chuck it Back" - put the boat into reverse.

 

Edward Paget Tomlison has this in his book Canal & River Navigations for names of boat parts:

 

boat bits.jpg

Joe Hollingshead was taught with bread and cheese on the cabin roof as well. Being told to steer to the bread or to the cheese.

[DHutch]

Of cause there would have been lots of regional variation and slang, just like there is in haulage circles today.

 

 

Daniel

[Machpoint005]

Edward Paget Tomlison has this in his book Canal & River Navigations for names of boat parts:

 

boat bits.jpg

 

Nice drawing, Shame the artist can't spell "gunwale".

[Tony Dunkley]

What did the old, working crews use for the above terms? I read on here, somewhere, recently, that port and starbaord (stb'd) were not used. I've heard of head instead of ahead as in 'put in head gear'.

 

Can anyone recommend a book that lists all the terms concisely?

 

Port and Starboard were 'Chimney side' and 'side-bed' side respectively.

 

'[A]head gear and 'starn gear' ~ self explanatory ~ and when in 'starn gear', you are 'holding back'.

 

Fore-end and Starn-end ~ again, self-explanatory, but the 'starn-end' of a 'motor' was the 'counter', and of a butty, the 'hatches' ~ not to be confused with the 'door-holes', which both motors and butties had.

 

More later, when I'm not so busy !

[Chertsey]

 

Nice drawing, Shame the artist can't spell "gunwale".

 

Or even gunnel. But there are certainly many variations in spelling of many terms as you would expect when communication was very largely oral and things were rarely written down.

[Tam & Di]

Joe Hollingshead was taught with bread and cheese on the cabin roof as well. Being told to steer to the bread or to the cheese.

 

I didn't realise it was such a common thing. Tom Humphries (Oxford Tommy) told me he used it when he had a woman trainee during the war who could not tell left from right and I assumed it was his own idea.

 

 

 

Fore-end and Starn-end ~ again, self-explanatory, but the 'starn-end' of a 'motor' was the 'counter', and of a butty, the 'hatches' ~ not to be confused with the 'door-holes', which both motors and butties had.

 

and of course "back end" is the back of the cargo hold, where the back end rail is on the motor. (never 'motor boat', by the way)

and there were lots of "holes" too - engine 'oles, bridge 'oles, the Stink 'ole and Jam 'ole

Edited September 9, 2016 by Tam & Di

[Ray T]

 

I didn't realise it was such a common thing. Tom Humphries (Oxford Tommy) told me he used it when he had a woman trainee during the war who could not tell left from right and I assumed it was his own idea.

 

 

 

and of course "back end" is the back of the cargo hold, where the back end rail is on the motor. (never 'motor boat', by the way)

and there were lots of "holes" too - engine 'oles, bridge 'oles, the Stink 'ole and Jam 'ole

 

Tom Humphries was of course William's brother, Mike's uncle.

 

 

 

Although the same family there was at least two spellings of Humphries and Humphris.

 

I have copies of birth, marriage and death certificates showing both spellings as we are compiling Mike's family tree for him.

[Tam & Di]

 

Tom Humphries was of course William's brother, Mike's uncle.

 

I know of William, but was more intrigued that Joe Hollingshead learned the same way.

 

As well as "chuck back" I've heard "chuck round" for turning through 180 degrees under power, and "swing" for the same. As I recall I only heard these from youngsters and incomers off the bank though, not from any of the older born and bred boatmen.

[mross]

Ellum and helming

 

I found these fascinating links on Google. I wonder if the word helm got replaced by a word in common use in the Eighteenth century - 'ellum'

 

https://history.wiltshire.gov.uk/community/gettextimage.php?id=9244

 

https://history.wiltshire.gov.uk/community/gettextimage.php?id=9300

 

in one of these it says elm was pronounced ellum in Saxon so this might have passed into dialect.

 

But why is chimney often pronounced chimley?

[colmac]

On a similar topic, where did the term "anser pin " originate for the hook or shackle on a motor for attaching the butty come from ? Apologies if my spelling of anser is wrong. Also, the word "buitty" is a common term for friend amongst the Welsh.

Edited September 9, 2016 by colmac

[Tam & Di]

Also, the word "buitty" is a common term for friend amongst the Welsh.

 

and more commonly perhaps so is buddy

[Neil Walker]

What a cracking thread! I must start using some of these!

 

'Bloody hell mate, chuck back! Keep to the bread side!' 'Ave you come on holiday by mistake? First time out? Av a lovely day'

 

And the repotoire expands

[magnetman]

On a similar topic, where did the term "anser pin " originate for the hook or shackle on a motor for attaching the butty come from ? Apologies if my spelling of anser is wrong. Also, the word "buitty" is a common term for friend amongst the Welsh.

I don't know the anser but it is interesting

 

I didn't realise it was such a common thing. Tom Humphries (Oxford Tommy) told me he used it when he had a woman trainee during the war who could not tell left from right and I assumed it was his own idea.

 

 

 

and of course "back end" is the back of the cargo hold, where the back end rail is on the motor. (never 'motor boat', by the way)

 

and there were lots of "holes" too - engine 'oles, bridge 'oles, the Stink 'ole and Jam 'ole

This has continued in modern parlance where if one is boating through an undesirable area it is commonly known as a "s**t 'ole"

 

I like the expression 'give it some oil' apparently meaning to speed up

 

Good thread I agree

 

I know of William, but was more intrigued that Joe Hollingshead learned the same way.

 

As well as "chuck back" I've heard "chuck round" for turning through 180 degrees under power, and "swing" for the same. As I recall I only heard these from youngsters and incomers off the bank though, not from any of the older born and bred boatmen.

Swing is the standard word for large vessels turning in the Thames tideway. On VHF channel 14 I sometimes hear skippers say "we will be swinging four and two and proceeding inward/outward bound..." which I imagine means turning all the way round to port as the "four and two" is the sound signal. Edited September 9, 2016 by magnetman

[Ex Brummie]

With the crows now around Autherley Junction, the 'bread and cheese' would no longer be an option for Joe Hollinshead. We still see a lot of his brother, 'Young Henry', who moors at Brewood.

[Ray T]

What a cracking thread! I must start using some of these!

 

'Bloody hell mate, chuck back! Keep to the bread side!' 'Ave you come on holiday by mistake? First time out? Av a lovely day'

 

And the repotoire expands

 

Another, when meeting a fellow boater 'ow do.

[Tam & Di]

 

Another, when meeting a fellow boater 'ow do.

 

... or the merest slight diagonal nod of the head, known to us as "the boatman's nod"

[Tony Dunkley]

There looks to be the beginnings of some possible mis-understanding about the term 'chuck back' in one or two posts from earlier.

 

A 'chuck back' is the brief engagement of (a)stern gear to clear the 'blade' [propeller]* of rubbish, leaves etc., whereas running in stern gear to bring the boats to a standstill is 'holding back', . . . . and to hold back well, or push gates open, most empty motors needed the counter at least 'flat-on' so they had plenty of 'fan-hold'.

 

*Nb. Badly fouled 'blade' with enough rubbish on it to affect how well it works was known as a 'bladeful'.

Edited September 9, 2016 by Tony Dunkley

[Ray T]

Ellum and helming

 

I found these fascinating links on Google. I wonder if the word helm got replaced by a word in common use in the Eighteenth century - 'ellum'

 

https://history.wiltshire.gov.uk/community/gettextimage.php?id=9244

 

https://history.wiltshire.gov.uk/community/gettextimage.php?id=9300

 

in one of these it says elm was pronounced ellum in Saxon so this might have passed into dialect.

 

But why is chimney often pronounced chimley?

 

I don't know if you are aware but many boaters even into the 1960's were / are illiterate. With the way the boats worked the children had very little time or opportunity for schooling, perhaps a day here, half a day there and then move on.

 

Majority of their learning was from other boaters and listening. They then had to commit everything to memory, where shallows were, which junction to turn at and so on.Maps and books were no good to them.

 

One thing they did develop was prodigious memories. I can show a picture of a lock or bridge on the Coventry, Oxford, some of the BCN and the GU and Mike can tell me exactly where it is. Not only this he can regail me something that happened there.

 

On one occasion Mike said to me "I'm thick Ray I can't read." I got a little cross with him and reminded him of all the life skills he has which are sadly lacking in many today with our cushy way of life. He thought for a moment and said "Perhaps I can't read but I can count money."

 

He also can relate names and numbers of all the Barlow's, GUCCCo and BW motors with some Willow Wren. He also knows who steered which boats.

 

They also had a freedom of work which in our modern life we are denied. The film "Painted Boats" whilst a docusoap does give an insight into a working boaters life.

 

How many wizz kids can do that today?

Edited September 9, 2016 by Ray T

[Tony Dunkley]

 

But why is chimney often pronounced chimley?

 

I can't tell you that because I don't know, . . . but I do know that brass bands were mainly to be found at cotton mills and coal mines, but NEVER round the top of a chimley on what are now called working boats* , . . . they were called 'rims'.

 

*Nb. I don't think the term 'working boats' was used by ' them as worked 'em ', . . . and as far as I can recall it was just 'boats', or occasionally, 'trade boats'.

Edited September 9, 2016 by Tony Dunkley

[Ray T]

I thought brass bands were the preserve of the coal mines and the mills oop norf?

 

 

 

Crossed with TD

Edited September 9, 2016 by Ray T