Can I reduce the beam of my boat?

[magnetman]

Was not entirely a serious suggestion trying to make light of this volunteer thing. I do know how complex it is and nobody would offer that sort of service for free !!

[churchward]

 

 

 

I though Fulbourne, which will have been built to a 7' 0.5" beam, (and I would have thought is unlikely to be significantly narrower now) had been up the Llangollen.

 

However David Mack has posted in this thread and not mentioned it, so perhaps I am wrong?

 

I'm sure some nominally 7' 0.5" GUCCCo boats have made it, but I can'trecall which. Thea, possibly recently?

I am sure I have seen a picture of NB Victoria crossing the Pontcysyllte so unless it was craned in it must have gone through the tight lock.

 

Our boat on survey was measured as a max 6' 10" and as we moor now on the Llangollen it goes through every time. It is noticeably tighter then normal but have yet to have any issues. I have only seen one boat having difficulties with the bottom lock and that was someone who didn't pull up/take off his fenders.

[FadeToScarlet]

I am sure I have seen a picture of NB Victoria crossing the Pontcysyllte so unless it was craned in it must have gone through the tight lock.

 

Our boat on survey was measured as a max 6' 10" and as we moor now on the Llangollen it goes through every time. It is noticeably tighter then normal but have yet to have any issues. I have only seen one boat having difficulties with the bottom lock and that was someone who didn't pull up/take off his fenders.

Victoria is pretty slim, compared to the later "star" and "town class" boats.

 

 

Edit to add- you won't see us trying to get through, because there's no point even trying....

Edited August 19, 2016 by FadeToScarlet

[cuthound]

Last time I was on the Llangollen, in May 2015, "Mountbatten" was on there, selling fuel, gas and coal. Not sure how wide she is, but she had made it up Harleston Locks.

[FadeToScarlet]

Last time I was on the Llangollen, in May 2015, "Mountbatten" was on there, selling fuel, gas and coal. Not sure how wide she is, but she had made it up Harleston Locks.

6'10", built narrower to cope with narrowing locks.

 

Another boat that got up easily before, but now struggles; ISTR it had to go up backwards last time.

[cuthound]

6'10", built narrower to cope with narrowing locks.

Another boat that got up easily before, but now struggles; ISTR it had to go up backwards last time.

Thanks, every day is a school day, especially since I retired.

[magpie patrick]

6'10", built narrower to cope with narrowing locks.

 

Another boat that got up easily before, but now struggles; ISTR it had to go up backwards last time.

 

Mountbatten was indeed a "modern" narrow boat, however it's not quite as simple as that

 

"Narrow" is not a fixed standard - Bradshaws 1904 gives the Ellesmere Canal as 6 foot 9 inches beam in 1904 - Grand Junction "narrow locks" are listed as 7 feet 0 inches. In practice if you go round the system some "narrow" locks have a lot more room than others - I've had a narrow boat miss the breastplate on the top gates of Factory Locks at Tipton, they must be getting on for 8 feet wide.

 

The GUCCC boats were built primarily for the GUC - where the narrow locks are generous (and the GUC could keep them that way) and where working in pairs through wide locks was the norm. Mountbatten wasn't a GUCCC boat, she was BTC, and intended to work over a different area - they seem to have traded generally in the north west, where many of the narrow locks are, and always have been, narrower.

[Alan de Enfield]

The legal definition of narrowboat in the 1965 Byelaws is :

 

“narrow canal boat” means a vessel having a beam of less than seven feet six inches

 

I ponder to myself "I wonder if C&RT should be obliged to keep the navigations open for 'narrowboats', or just for undefined 'thin-boats'"

[churchward]

Victoria is pretty slim, compared to the later "star" and "town class" boats.

 

 

Edit to add- you won't see us trying to get through, because there's no point even trying....

true, but not as slim as 6ft 10in! I think it is just under or on 7ft. But Alan was asking what GUccc boats had gone through and that was one I recalled. I know it was built for Associated Canal carriers but as I recall spent almost no time in that companies care until they were taken over by GUCCC,

 

Also given it is about as long as it could be at 72ft any bend in the hull could be an issue. It has the advantage I guess of being able to chain in any tight bits along the hull.

Edited August 19, 2016 by churchward

[churchward]

The legal definition of narrowboat in the 1965 Byelaws is :

 

“narrow canal boat” means a vessel having a beam of less than seven feet six inches

 

I ponder to myself "I wonder if C&RT should be obliged to keep the navigations open for 'narrowboats', or just for undefined 'thin-boats'"

Not all canal locks were originally built to those standards in the first place so I do not think they can be held responsible for making the locks OK for a 7ft 6in boat across the network.

[alan_fincher]

Also given it is about as long as it could be at 72ft any bend in the hull could be an issue. It has the advantage I guess of being able to chain in any tight bits along the hull.

 

It depends where any wide bits are.

 

"Flamingo" had apparently been measured as 7' 1" across the guards, just at the back of the front deck.

 

Even if it were not converted you can't pull in by chains the bits where there is a solid steel bulkhead across the whole boat.

[MtB]

All very puzzling.

 

Reginald measures well under 7ft now and passes through Awbridge lock with at least 2" to spare (which he used to get stuck in before being slimmed down), but the bow will only go about ten feet into Hurleston before getting jammed solid for two hours!

[boatbodger]

Before we had a narrowboat, we got stuck in Hurleston lock in a 25 ft centre cockpit Dawncraft .

 

Changing the boat seems a bit extreme unless you were hoping to visit Welsh sections regularly. What about craning out and in again if it's just a one off ??

[cuthound]

Before we had a narrowboat, we got stuck in Hurleston lock in a 25 ft centre cockpit Dawncraft .

 

Changing the boat seems a bit extreme unless you were hoping to visit Welsh sections regularly. What about craning out and in again if it's just a one off ??

Or hiring, same as you would to see the Monday & Brec.

[ditchcrawler]

Did we ever find out which bit of the OPs boat was tight and did it have side anodes fitted?

[MtB]

Did we ever find out which bit of the OPs boat was tight and did it have side anodes fitted?

 

 

No. The OP drifted off and lost interest when it became clear nothing we said was going to make the boat fit through Hurleston without a bit of effort answring the questions.

[Sea Dog]

No. The OP drifted off and lost interest when it became clear nothing we said was going to make the boat fit through Hurleston without a bit of effort answring the questions.

Or maybe he reduced the beam of his boat with a gas axe and it sank?

[Murflynn]

 

 

No. The OP drifted off and lost interest when it became clear nothing we said was going to make the boat fit through Hurleston without a bit of effort answring the questions.

another of 'those' posters then?

 

still, keeps the forum lively, all the usual subjects answering questions that nobody really wants an answer to.

[MtB]

another of 'those' posters then?

 

still, keeps the forum lively, all the usual subjects answering questions that nobody really wants an answer to.

 

 

Yes. Despite the thread rumbling on for a fortnight and running to four pages of answers, the OP hasn't been back since 16th August.

[MtB]

And they display that annoying trait of so many of 'those' types of poster - failing or refusing to respond to the requests for more detail. Most ofen seen in the technical sections but this thread is a good illustration of the effect.

 

I suspect they've already taken advice in the real world from all over the place and end up here as a last resort. So all the questions and suggestions we come up with, have all been heard before and rejected, hence the lack of response.

[Murflynn]

And they display that annoying trait of so many of 'those' types of poster - failing or refusing to respond to the requests for more detail. Most ofen seen in the technical sections but this thread is a good illustration of the effect.

 

I suspect they've already taken advice in the real world from all over the place and end up here as a last resort. So all the questions and suggestions we come up with, have all been heard before and rejected, hence the lack of response.

yeah, but ....................

 

without this type of thread the forum would be even more sterile than it has become already as a result of OTT cleansing.

[The Boat Studio]

Hello. I have not drifted away. Just caught up with more holidays and generally a busy August. I have been following the conversation with interest. It is hard sometimes to reply to all questions asked in detail. I was not expecting such a large response. We are having a meeting with those involved to discuss our plan of action with the boat. We think that some further investigations are needed before the drastic move of selling and buying a new boat. If it is something as simple as an anode in the way then we need to find this out. I had a reply from CRT I will paste it below for everyone's reference. I wish now I paid more attention to exactly where the boat was sticking. It seemed to be roughly 10ft in from the bow and there are some scrapes to show where it jammed but to me it felt like it was catching below the gunwale but in the highly stressful heat of the moment I cannot be sure. ( I was also on the tiller so couldn't see) The lock keeper did say at the time that maybe 5 more inches of water on the Shropshire Union would've helped it in but we do really need smooth access in and out of that lock for our project so cannot rely on water levels being right. Very interesting to hear others being wider and getting through though..

 

Here is CRT response:

 

Hello Amber

Thank you for contacting the Canal & River Trust, I am very sorry to hear about the problems you have experienced at Hurlstone Lock 1 and the impact this has had on your holiday plans.

We have been monitoring the lock over two/three years to ascertain whether there is any movement, although the last survey data did not highlight any significant movement, due to the number of boats becoming stuck and feedback from regular users of the lock, we did undertake some remedial work some time ago to try and improve the access through the lock.

However the remedial work has not rectified the problem, so I am arranging a meeting with my engineering colleagues to review the most recent monitoring survey data, and liaising with boating organisations who are raising their concerns about the width of the lock, in addition to reviewing data that we retain on boats getting stuck, to look at the possible engineering options for widening the lock. Based on the outcome of the investigation and discussion we will then have a clearer idea of whether work can be undertaken and the estimated timescale

I can, confirm, however, that at the moment, there are no plans to undertake any work to the lock to improve the width,

Once again I am very sorry that your boat got stuck in the lock and the impact on your holiday plans, but thank you for taking the time to write in, I will ensure your comments are included in the instigation.

Regards

Wendy

[ditchcrawler]

If you take a broom handle and hold it against the gunwale of your boat with it rubbing the base plate and the rubbing strake and slide it from bow to stern you will feel if there is any anodes sticking out. Also the gap between the gunwale and the broom handle will give an indication of the thickness of any rubbing strakes or bulges below the water.