Survey failure - worthless boat- any advice?

[Athy]

Glad you were impressed

[MissMax]

Sorry not offering help just asking.

 

Is the only problem the hull of the boat that can be repaired and the rest of the boat is livable. How big is it please

[bargemast]

Sorry not offering help just asking.

 

Is the only problem the hull of the boat that can be repaired and the rest of the boat is livable. How big is it please

 

post # 1 says 32' and the boat looks livable enough on the brokers photos.

 

Peter.

[David Mack]

There's a well regarded broker, who is a member of this forum, just down the canal from your current broker - could you name them?

 

Wrigglefingers beat me to it. See post #189

[MissMax]

If it's the one i saw, please don't sell for such a low price. It's a blooming darling of a boat

[David Schweizer]

I'm not sure that Alan's post does any harm at all. He is simply stating that a boat survey is different from an M.o.T. Judging by Nyima's first posts, she may not have been aware of this.

 

Three Times??

Or more accurately a deliberate attempt to mislead, given it isn't true.

 

I am sure you know what you meant when you posted that statement, unfortunately out of context it is lost on me.

[Richard10002]

If only "some insurers would consider it uninsurable", presumably "some insurers would consider it insurable".

 

In which case, it is insurable.

[WotEver]

If only "some insurers would consider it uninsurable", presumably "some insurers would consider it insurable".

 

In which case, it is insurable.

Exactly this.

 

It's a perfectly serviceable boat. It is as serviceable as OP thought it was before the nameless broker tried to con them out of £7k.

 

Tony

[alan_fincher]

Completely layperson question here, unless I've missed something (which is probable):

 

If the boat was overplated because the original steel was down to just 1mm thick in places. And the new steel is now down to 3.7mm thick. Does that not mean that the overall thickness of the hull is a minimum of 4.7mm thick? Which is plenty for insurance purposes and for selling on fairly.

 

Or does it not work like that?

 

No, it doesn't work like that, or at least not in my book.

 

If a boat is overplated, it is because it is assumed what lies below the overplate can't be relied upon any more. Only the new plate can be considered for "how much steel can I lose before water might end up coming inside".

 

However, I am at a loss to understand how an overplate in 4mm steel can be considered a valid fix, if the moment even half a millimetre of the 4mm is lost the boat will again become declared "uninsurable", (which it isn't of course!).

[WotEver]

However, I am at a loss to understand how an overplate in 4mm steel can be considered a valid fix, if the moment even half a millimetre of the 4mm is lost the boat will again become declared "uninsurable", (which it isn't of course!).

I totally agree.

[David Schweizer]

 

No, it doesn't work like that, or at least not in my book.

 

If a boat is overplated, it is because it is assumed what lies below the overplate can't be relied upon any more. Only the new plate can be considered for "how much steel can I lose before water might end up coming inside".

 

However, I am at a loss to understand how an overplate in 4mm steel can be considered a valid fix, if the moment even half a millimetre of the 4mm is lost the boat will again become declared "uninsurable", (which it isn't of course!).

 

I agree, and that is what I was suggesting earlier in this thread, but others chose to disagree.

Edited July 26, 2016 by David Schweizer

[David Schweizer]

If only "some insurers would consider it uninsurable", presumably "some insurers would consider it insurable".

 

In which case, it is insurable.

 

To be fair to Craig Allen, he actually stated on our last survey that the short section of worn Sacrificial chine on our boat could make the boat uninsurable by some Insurers. After a new section had been welded on, he stated the boat was in insurable condition.

 

Whether you like it or not, some insurers would rather not insure a boat which has a possible chance of sinking because of failures in the hull. I wonder how many of those Insurers who are happy to insure a boat with weaklknesses in the hull wlill be as equally happy to pay out when the boat sinks?

Edited July 26, 2016 by David Schweizer

[MtB]

 

I agree, and that is what I was suggesting earlier in this thread, but others chose to disagree.

 

 

By that you mean me presumably.

 

I just keep on pointing out the boat IS insurable. The OP was told by the marina who must not be named their boat was uninsurable. A blatant lie.

 

There also seems to be some assertions that Craig Allen said the same. Again, he is mistaken if he said that.

 

'Some' people on here seem determined to conflate 'uninsurable comprehensively' with 'uninsurable and therefore unusable'.

[David Schweizer]

 

 

By that you mean me presumably.

 

I just keep on pointing out the boat IS insurable. The OP was told by the marina who must not be named their boat was uninsurable. A blatant lie.

 

There also seems to be some assertions that Craig Allen said the same. Again, he is mistaken if he said that.

 

'Some' people on here seem determined to conflate 'uninsurable comprehensively' with 'uninsurable and therefore unusable'.

 

"some people" presumably includes me!

 

If insurance is not comprehensive but third party only, the boat is not actually insured only the boat you hit!! I can only think of one company which does not require a survey to insure a boat, but you need to be of a certain age, and I dont think they will insure residential boats.

[MtB]

You're not very well informed then!

[David Schweizer]

You're not very well informed then!

 

About what?

[nyima77]

So...

 

My partner spent the day talking variously to the surveyor, the engineers recommended here and by Craig and insurance companies.

 

Both engineers (one was Kedian) advised that to overplate a Springer with 5mm would be expensive and inadvisable - one said he wouldn't touch it, the other that he could take our money and do the work but wouldn't recommend it.

 

None of the insurance companies we spoke to would cover it - taking the point that you could get 3rd party (though not too many insurers seem keen to offer that), but as David points out that wouldn't cover for fire, theft or damage to the boat itself. It is also currently without a CRT licence, and the BSS certificate has expired.

 

In short (and I was tempted to never to come back here and admit this) we decided to cut our losses and take the £10k from the-broker-who-cannot-be-spoken-of-wihtout-getting-heartburn. Frankly it's better than I expected - apparently the broker was muttering to my OH at one point that she was only really worth £3-4k; and as I said earlier, at the start they were suggesting we'd get £9k for part exchange on one of their own boats. Though I wish I'd read the post from whoever offered £11k before we accepted. (Ring the broker, ask a few awkward questions about survey/hull state, offer them £11k)

 

It will be interesting to see how soon she is back on sale, how much for, and what work (if any) is done before then. And yes she's lovely and other than the hull well maintained - but anyone buying her needs to get a survey and buy with their eyes open. I'm glad we made the mistakes we did with our first (cheap-ish) boat rather than our next one which will be a bigger investment. Learning for me: Always get your own independent survey and never forget that brokers are only salesmen in search of a profit, however nice they seem.

 

If anyone wants to know the name of the boat and/or broker please message me. I'm happy to post it here now the money's in the bank, but mods may be concerned that will identify the marina.

 

Some of you will probably think we made the wrong call - fair enough, you could be right and we could be idiots (though most of the idiocy was, I think, naivety at point of purchase 4 years ago). But thank you very much to everyone who has chipped in, it has at least felt like we've explored all the options and made an informed choice.

[MtB]

How many wrong calls can a boat owner make.

I can see how the broker who may not be named make such a huge profit.

 

Staggering.

[nyima77]

Yes that's really helpful, thanks.

 

I anticipated this kind of response but it seemed courteous to post the outcome, given that people had taken the time to make suggestions, most of which we followed up. I've explained why we made a quick exit: We end up with a surveyor recommending and insurance companies demanding work that engineers say isn't possible, plus lots of good but sometimes contradictory advice.

 

I don't know why you need to be rude about it really, but you know, peace and love and all that. Have fun feeling superior.

[MtB]

Frustrated more like. You've been had over big time, despite all the advice.

But there we are. Some people can't be helped.

[nyima77]

You think we made a bad choice, fair enough. Say so if you think it would help other people, and say why. I just wondered why be unpleasant about it.

 

If you'd got chatting to us in a pub and given us advice, and we'd chosen to ignore it, presumably you would then announce loudly to everyone, within our hearing, how staggeringly stupid we were?

 

Maybe you would. If not, why do it online?

 

For the last time, most people have been very helpful and constructive thank you. Time I went, I think.

[ValandPete]

Oh I really hope you are now able to fulfill your plans and buy another boat with the proceeds of your sale, or have the basis on which to plan for a future purchase.

 

You have made an informed decision helped by the advice on this forum which will also inform others. You have not had an easy decision to make and I have welcomed your openness and willingness to discuss and share. Your decision deserves respect.

 

I wish you well.

 

Val

[Ange]

Oh I really hope you are now able to fulfill your plans and buy another boat with the proceeds of your sale, or have the basis on which to plan for a future purchase.

You have made an informed decision helped by the advice on this forum which will also inform others. You have not had an easy decision to make and I have welcomed your openness and willingness to discuss and share. Your decision deserves respect.

I wish you well.

Val

Agreed. Thank you nyima for updating us and I wish you all the best. Edited July 27, 2016 by Ange

[David Schweizer]

Yes that's really helpful, thanks.

 

I anticipated this kind of response but it seemed courteous to post the outcome, given that people had taken the time to make suggestions, most of which we followed up. I've explained why we made a quick exit: We end up with a surveyor recommending and insurance companies demanding work that engineers say isn't possible, plus lots of good but sometimes contradictory advice.

 

I don't know why you need to be rude about it really, but you know, peace and love and all that. Have fun feeling superior.

 

 

You think we made a bad choice, fair enough. Say so if you think it would help other people, and say why. I just wondered why be unpleasant about it.

 

If you'd got chatting to us in a pub and given us advice, and we'd chosen to ignore it, presumably you would then announce loudly to everyone, within our hearing, how staggeringly stupid we were?

 

Maybe you would. If not, why do it online?

 

For the last time, most people have been very helpful and constructive thank you. Time I went, I think.

 

Take no notice of him, he is doing it to everyone tonight, (well me actually) he'll probably regret it in the morning when he is sober.

 

I think you have made the best choice that was available to you, even if it was "Hobson's choice", and as you have acknowledged, you will be far better informed next time. I wish you well with finding your new boat.

Edited July 27, 2016 by David Schweizer

[Athy]

Nyima, I'm sure you're breathing a B-I-I-I-I-G sigh of relief - and that as from today you'll be out there looking for your next boat! Do keep us informed of your progress.

From "worthless" to £10,000 in the space of a few days is a quite good result, I reckon.